Warriah'
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Post by Warriah' on Aug 19, 2020 7:13:08 GMT -5
I was listening to JR's podcast on Crush and it made me revisit the Unforgiven BOD vs Kronik match. Does anyone else think the hate the match gets is far beyond its lack of quality?
Obviously it's not an amazingly great match, but rewatching it, I think the level criticism it receives is very unjustified. I believe Meltzer called it the worst PPV match of 01. It obviously lead to the firings of both Adams and Clarke, which is insane when you think they were fired based on the performance of a single match (especially given their stuff in WCW was one of the few highlights amongst all that mess).
As for the match itself. There's some few miscues here and there, but the match itself has this Warrior/Hogan HH reputation and I really don't think it's justified. Hell some of the issues aren't even on Adams or Clarke... Which kind of makes the whole thing a head scratcher to me. Almost a fever dream.
I feel like Kronik were given a hell of a raw deal here. Am I alone in that?
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Post by TKO Propagandist on Aug 19, 2020 16:24:04 GMT -5
Taker was really bad that night
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Post by K5 on Aug 19, 2020 17:16:38 GMT -5
as a kid I was a fan of Kronik so I absolutely felt they got the raw deal. pretty awesome talents to just get dismissed in the fashion they did, and it seems that they were done with the business after that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2020 21:07:59 GMT -5
I was a big fan of Kronik in wcw. Their wwe run was forgettable and they seemed very unmotivated.
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TheXtremisT
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Post by TheXtremisT on Aug 20, 2020 6:05:32 GMT -5
I thought KroniK were absolute badasses and enjoyed seeing them destroy guys every week in 2000.
Seeing them for a week in Sep 2001 then gone, I was so confused.
Bruce Prichard said on an episode of STW that the match blew with Taker and Kane, and both guys in KroniK were protected throughout their careers and couldn't wrestle. Having a 2 vs 2 big hoss match meant they were limited as to what they could do and big guys vs big guys never really worked (didn't stop them trying for DECADES though did it?). KroniK were used to having short squash matches, same as Goldberg. But they threw their hands up at Adams and Clark because they didn't care.
Fired Adams for being a liability and Clark got sent for retraining, despite being 10 years into his wrestling career.
Disappointing that they couldn't use them, but where could they have fitted them in? Having them fight the APA would have been better initially. Better than squashing Kaientai, or the Hollys.
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Warriah'
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Post by Warriah' on Aug 20, 2020 6:50:38 GMT -5
I thought KroniK were absolute badasses and enjoyed seeing them destroy guys every week in 2000. Seeing them for a week in Sep 2001 then gone, I was so confused. Bruce Prichard said on an episode of STW that the match blew with Taker and Kane, and both guys in KroniK were protected throughout their careers and couldn't wrestle. Having a 2 vs 2 big hoss match meant they were limited as to what they could do and big guys vs big guys never really worked (didn't stop them trying for DECADES though did it?). KroniK were used to having short squash matches, same as Goldberg. But they threw their hands up at Adams and Clark because they didn't care. Fired Adams for being a liability and Clark got sent for retraining, despite being 10 years into his wrestling career. Disappointing that they couldn't use them, but where could they have fitted them in? Having them fight the APA would have been better initially. Better than squashing Kaientai, or the Hollys. I call major BS on Prichard for saying they couldn't work. Especially Clarke, the guy could go. One of the most under utilised talents of the Monday Night Wars for sure. |
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jason1980s
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Post by jason1980s on Aug 20, 2020 9:14:47 GMT -5
Both guys were awful a majority of their careers. They rarely connected with fans during their 10 years. What shocks me isn't that they lasted one match but that they were brought on in the first place. It actually seems more like a revenge firing than anything. Crush who was a low guy on the totem pole in 1997 and should have been happy WWF kept him on for so many years, left after Montreal and Adam Bomb was probably vocal even then about the Kliq, a McMahon favorite hurting his "so called" chances at higher things in WWF. Both guys had a look of a bodyguard and would have been great at that role but once the bells rings they are a channel changer or bathroom break for me. Undertaker and Kane have had very famous, popular and important careers for decades so who is really at fault?
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TheXtremisT
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Post by TheXtremisT on Aug 20, 2020 11:39:20 GMT -5
I thought KroniK were absolute badasses and enjoyed seeing them destroy guys every week in 2000. Seeing them for a week in Sep 2001 then gone, I was so confused. Bruce Prichard said on an episode of STW that the match blew with Taker and Kane, and both guys in KroniK were protected throughout their careers and couldn't wrestle. Having a 2 vs 2 big hoss match meant they were limited as to what they could do and big guys vs big guys never really worked (didn't stop them trying for DECADES though did it?). KroniK were used to having short squash matches, same as Goldberg. But they threw their hands up at Adams and Clark because they didn't care. Fired Adams for being a liability and Clark got sent for retraining, despite being 10 years into his wrestling career. Disappointing that they couldn't use them, but where could they have fitted them in? Having them fight the APA would have been better initially. Better than squashing Kaientai, or the Hollys. I call major BS on Prichard for saying they couldn't work. Especially Clarke, the guy could go. One of the most under utilised talents of the Monday Night Wars for sure. Well considering that Prichard said those names in that order, and wikipedia says it was the other way around with ADAMS (Crush) being the one sent for retraining... I dunno. I think Bruce is remembering things wrong, and using personal bias. He definitely thought Adams was a liability because of all his backstage issues and getting caught with a large amount of steroids with intent to distribute, plus a hefty collection of firearms.... |
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Post by rowdy1971 on Aug 20, 2020 11:55:22 GMT -5
Hmmmm, Prichard said Adams couldn't work? So, Adams couldn't work as Demolition Crush, couldn't work as Kona Crush, couldn't work as Evil Crush with Fuji, couldn't work as DOA Crush, and couldn't work as Kronik Crush? Then why the hell hire him back if he couldn't work the first four times?
Sure the match wasn't the greatest but Kronik could have gone a lot further in the WWF. Just another way to bury a team that wasn't made in the WWF. They were set up to fail.
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TheXtremisT
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Post by TheXtremisT on Aug 20, 2020 13:56:12 GMT -5
Hmmmm, Prichard said Adams couldn't work? So, Adams couldn't work as Demolition Crush, couldn't work as Kona Crush, couldn't work as Evil Crush with Fuji, couldn't work as DOA Crush, and couldn't work as Kronik Crush? Then why the hell hire him back if he couldn't work the first four times? Sure the match wasn't the greatest but Kronik could have gone a lot further in the WWF. Just another way to bury a team that wasn't made in the WWF. They were set up to fail. Yeah I can't remember the timestamp, but it was the episode of STW where they were watching through the whole Nitro where Goldberg defeated Hogan for the WCW title in 1998. Conrad asked Prichard about Brian Adams when he wrestled on that Nitro and the deal when he and Clark came in the WWF at Unforgiven 2001. Basically said he was very limited in the ring and could only do squash type matches. |
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Post by JokerFC on Aug 20, 2020 18:11:19 GMT -5
Like lots of WCW talent they got a raw deal from Vince & his entourage deciding who could & couldn't work.
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Thunder Chunky
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Post by Thunder Chunky on Aug 21, 2020 11:15:56 GMT -5
I think this is a case of the WWE ruining someone they didn't create. It used to happen a ton back in the day.
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Post by cordless2016 on Aug 22, 2020 0:07:36 GMT -5
I agree the match isn’t as bad as many make it out to be. it’s not good, but people ignore the fact that Taker was a** in the ring in 2001 himself. He had as much to do with the match being bad as Kronik did. Unfortunately, Vince hung them out to dry and Taker got a pass.
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jason1980s
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Post by jason1980s on Aug 22, 2020 11:32:38 GMT -5
Hmmmm, Prichard said Adams couldn't work? So, Adams couldn't work as Demolition Crush, couldn't work as Kona Crush, couldn't work as Evil Crush with Fuji, couldn't work as DOA Crush, and couldn't work as Kronik Crush? Then why the hell hire him back if he couldn't work the first four times? Sure the match wasn't the greatest but Kronik could have gone a lot further in the WWF. Just another way to bury a team that wasn't made in the WWF. They were set up to fail. Crush couldn't work. I could see that as a 7, 9, 10, 13 and 16 year old kid back then. Kona Crush was the only time he got remotely close to connecting with the fans but Matt Borne being a far superior performer as Doink destroyed those chances. |
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jason1980s
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Post by jason1980s on Aug 23, 2020 9:38:10 GMT -5
Another board has a member posting Observer news from the mid 1990s WCW and in an 1997 issue it's noted that Goldberg beat Wrath in about 20 seconds. That seals his fate right there. He was never intended to be anything other than a gimmicked jobber, maybe one step above a Mike Enos or Barry Darsow. His fate in WWF was sealed early on too with PPV losses to Marty Jannetty and Earthquake along with a poor showing at the rumble. Back then the kliq didn't have the type of power as they did a year later I'm sure but Clarke blames it all on them. I'm all for someone being bitter if it's someone great that was truly held back but as Simon Cowell would tell American Idol poor performers "You're just not that good enough" and neither was Clarke. Amazing look! Just nothing else.
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TheXtremisT
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Post by TheXtremisT on Aug 23, 2020 13:33:12 GMT -5
Another board has a member posting Observer news from the mid 1990s WCW and in an 1997 issue it's noted that Goldberg beat Wrath in about 20 seconds. That seals his fate right there. He was never intended to be anything other than a gimmicked jobber, maybe one step above a Mike Enos or Barry Darsow. His fate in WWF was sealed early on too with PPV losses to Marty Jannetty and Earthquake along with a poor showing at the rumble. Back then the kliq didn't have the type of power as they did a year later I'm sure but Clarke blames it all on them. I'm all for someone being bitter if it's someone great that was truly held back but as Simon Cowell would tell American Idol poor performers "You're just not that good enough" and neither was Clarke. Amazing look! Just nothing else. That's not strictly true. Goldberg didn't meet Wrath until 1998, and it was actually streak vs streak, as Wrath had built up a few weeks of wins and the crowd were actually getting behind him. It may have been an accident that he caught on, but I'm sure they were trying to build him up a little. Feeding him to Goldberg cold, with no build and no reference to the potential streak vs streak concept and the fact he jobbed to him just like every other jabroni is what is unjustified. But to say they didn't view Wrath as an actual usable guy is a bit of a stretch. He was another guy on the roster for a few months in 1997, but definitely used better than those guys you mentioned. His winning streak in 1998 got him noticed so someone was behind him backstage. |
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Post by The Brain on Aug 23, 2020 16:13:26 GMT -5
It also did them no favors that Stevie Richards of all people was their manager.
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TheXtremisT
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Post by TheXtremisT on Aug 23, 2020 16:38:20 GMT -5
It also did them no favors that Stevie Richards of all people was their manager. He killed it as RTC's mouthpiece though... |
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Post by The Brain on Aug 23, 2020 16:40:15 GMT -5
It also did them no favors that Stevie Richards of all people was their manager. He killed it as RTC's mouthpiece though... Yeah he was perfect in that role. |
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Aug 23, 2020 16:56:16 GMT -5
Kronik really didn''t deserve to take the full blame for this match and they shouldn't have been fired because of it. Undertaker in 2001 was at his worst and this match was solid proof.
Both guys were great in their previous runs as Crush and Adam Bomb so it wasn't fair to terminate them after their first match back.
I'm a huge Taker fan, but he was God awful in 2001, his worst year by far.
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