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Post by Yambag Jones on Aug 22, 2020 11:30:21 GMT -5
Long term angles, story lines, and general direction is what a lot of those people want. And yet, every post about Daddy Meltzer’s leaked “plans” for the Roman Reigns “coronation” was not at all positive, it was just months/years of demanding Vince push whoever the flavour of the week is instead, and REEEEEing about stubborn evil Vince sticking to plans and ignoring fans. And WWE encouraged that sort of behaviour with the Daniel Bryan vs Authority storyline, then the frequent stop-starts with Reigns, and then manufactured copies of the Bryan thing for Becky Lynch and Kofi Kingston in the last year or two. Anyone who has spent years hate-watching the show just to complain about it isn’t really a fan anyway. And the worst thing is that WWE tries to cater to that sort anyway, so everything just ends up wishy-washy. TLDR - Rollins is right about those fans (hell, “put the belt on Seth Rollins” is proof enough of that), but that doesn’t excuse the fed constantly changing things just to try appeasing them. The Vin Man should just make some long term plans and stick to them regardless of what the haters are saying. It does feel like the Covid era is facilitating that to happen a bit more. I think Reigns would have been better off if they turned him heel when he was getting boo'd for not being Daniel Bryan, CM Punk, (insert fan favorite here). He is super talented and an eventual face turn would have been what VKM wanted the whole time (but again, that's just my 2 cents). I don't think WWE is catering to fans who constantly complain, if anything they've mocked and didn't give them what they want with a lot of guys (there are exceptions with Danielson and Punk). Vince books 50/50 and I think that's why things feel "wishy-washy". They are doing some long term storytelling this year, which is a move in the right direction. For years, it seemed like the only long term story was Reigns' constant coronation. This year there's Rollins/Mysterio (far from over), Edge/Orton, and Banks/Bayley (likely building to WM). It'd be great to see them put more of that effort down the card as well. |
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Post by K5 on Aug 22, 2020 11:30:50 GMT -5
Long term angles, story lines, and general direction is what a lot of those people want. And yet, every post about Daddy Meltzer’s leaked “plans” for the Roman Reigns “coronation” was not at all positive, it was just months/years of demanding Vince push whoever the flavour of the week is instead, and REEEEEing about stubborn evil Vince sticking to plans and ignoring fans. And WWE encouraged that sort of behaviour with the Daniel Bryan vs Authority storyline, then the frequent stop-starts with Reigns, and then manufactured copies of the Bryan thing for Becky Lynch and Kofi Kingston in the last year or two. let's have a legit conversation here. if you truly think this way, then do you think that fans should've just cheered for Rocky Maivia as his initial face? or do you think the fans hated his clear push, fought against it, and that lead to them using him properly? or what is your take on that? |
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Post by cordless2016 on Aug 22, 2020 12:04:02 GMT -5
Long term angles, story lines, and general direction is what a lot of those people want. And yet, every post about Daddy Meltzer’s leaked “plans” for the Roman Reigns “coronation” was not at all positive, it was just months/years of demanding Vince push whoever the flavour of the week is instead, and REEEEEing about stubborn evil Vince sticking to plans and ignoring fans. And WWE encouraged that sort of behaviour with the Daniel Bryan vs Authority storyline, then the frequent stop-starts with Reigns, and then manufactured copies of the Bryan thing for Becky Lynch and Kofi Kingston in the last year or two. Anyone who has spent years hate-watching the show just to complain about it isn’t really a fan anyway. And the worst thing is that WWE tries to cater to that sort anyway, so everything just ends up wishy-washy. The Covid era has been a nice little reshuffling of the deck, with an altered roster, less pressure to deliver high ratings, and no crowds trying to get themselves over for loudly hating on the show. McIntyre has benefitted massively from getting months of being the top guy without crowds turning on him, and no desperation moves to dethrone him. As boring as some of the shows have been, the lack of disruption has allowed some of the midcard to strongly establish themselves. Zelina Vega and her guys, Apollo Crews, the Hurt Business, the Viking Raiders, Sheamus and the Street Profits have all come into their own in a way that wasn’t happening for them in the old world. Even Ricochet and Cedric Alexander have shown a bit of personality. And then legends like Edge, Orton and Jeff Hardy have all been able to deliver stuff above and beyond what they would have done in the traditional environment. I feel like Matt Riddle has suffered a bit with the lack of crowds, because his “bro” shtick really needs an audience reacting to it to cover how cringeworthy and lame it is. Braun Strowman too, he hasn’t adapted brilliantly and it’s always tough feuding with Bray Wyatt’s magic powers, but I’m intrigued in the new direction. Weirdly, Kevin Owens has not been a strong character and I would have expected him to be. I guess it’s because he’s been in and out so there hasn’t been anything for him to sink his teeth into, but it’s weird to see him as a “just there” guy for the first time in his WWE career. Rollins himself has been dull as hell for months too, constantly rematching Aleister Black/Rey Mysterio/Humberto Carrillo, although the eyeball silliness and the kendo stick torture have added some life back into his deal. Asuka, Bayley and Sasha Banks probably would’ve been fine either way. TLDR - Rollins is right about those fans (hell, “put the belt on Seth Rollins” is proof enough of that), but that doesn’t excuse the fed constantly changing things just to try appeasing them. The Vin Man should just make some long term plans and stick to them regardless of what the haters are saying. It does feel like the Covid era is facilitating that to happen a bit more. Roman is the worst example you could use for a long term investment. The Shield broke up in the Spring of 2014, and in less than a year Roman was set to be handed the WWE Title at WM31 despite fans rejecting him for other performers. Hard to buy Roman Reigns as an underdog when he was also being constantly pushed as the “Big Dawg” of the Shield for the two years prior. We all know he was Vince’s pet project but the way Cole was immediately putting Roman with the likes of Hogan, Austin, and Rock. Now had they pushed someone that was actually over with he fans into that spot (like Bryan, Ambrose, Cesaro, Dolph, Wyatt, etc)...it’s almost a certainty that the mass fan reaction would have been a positive one. |
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Post by Next Manufactured’s Sweater on Aug 22, 2020 12:07:42 GMT -5
And yet, every post about Daddy Meltzer’s leaked “plans” for the Roman Reigns “coronation” was not at all positive, it was just months/years of demanding Vince push whoever the flavour of the week is instead, and REEEEEing about stubborn evil Vince sticking to plans and ignoring fans. And WWE encouraged that sort of behaviour with the Daniel Bryan vs Authority storyline, then the frequent stop-starts with Reigns, and then manufactured copies of the Bryan thing for Becky Lynch and Kofi Kingston in the last year or two. let's have a legit conversation here. if you truly think this way, then do you think that fans should've just cheered for Rocky Maivia as his initial face? or do you think the fans hated his clear push, fought against it, and that lead to them using him properly? or what is your take on that? I may have discussed my take on that before, but the difference is that fans booing Rocky Maivia was organic. Booing Roman Reigns is just part of the deeply embedded “you’re not my real dad, Vince, don’t tell me who to like, I’m going to HIJACK RAW ” attitude of the toxic anti-fans of WWE. At the 2014 Royal Rumble, Roman Reigns was cheered because it was trendy at that time to REEEEE about Batista - because Batista was positioned as the top guy. A year later, Reigns was getting the same treatment that Batista got. And all throughout the Roman Reigns rise, people were screeching that it should be Seth Rollins instead. Then, 2019, it was Seth Rollins instead. And what a shocking turn of events that Rollins then got the same treatment that Reigns, Batista and Cena has gotten. The wrestling world in 2015 was very different to the one The Rock came up in. Steve Austin winning the Rumble in 98 was obvious. Batista winning the Rumble in 05 was obvious. But the obvious outcome was fine then, because it fit the story, and people were still watching for the characters and booing/cheering accordingly. Now, for the most part, people (who discuss wrestling online) aren’t watching for the characters and stories - they’re watching from a meta perspective of which actor has the highest workrate as judged by Dave Meltzer, and which one the scoops say is being buried, and the Us vs Them dynamic of hating the Chosen One and championing someone else. And that last part is the one that defeats their enjoyment of it. Because if you spend years demanding that Vince makes Seth the chosen one, and you actually win and Vince does what you ask for, Seth becomes way less cool. He’s got the belt, and Vince booked it that way. Rollins is not the rebel choice anymore, he’s McMahon-approved. So you then have to hate Seth and be furious that Seth has the belt instead of Cesaro or Wyatt or whoever. TLDR - fans booed Rocky Maivia because they enjoyed the WWF but didn’t like Rocky Maivia; “fans“ boo Roman Reigns because they want to stick it to Vince McMahon, the same way they boo John Cena/Batista/Seth Rollins when they hold that position. |
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Post by Next Manufactured’s Sweater on Aug 22, 2020 12:30:05 GMT -5
Now had they pushed someone that was actually over with he fans into that spot (like Bryan, Ambrose, Cesaro, Dolph, Wyatt, etc)...it’s almost a certainty that the mass fan reaction would have been a positive one. Those are all weak suggestions. Ambrose was also in the Shield that split less than a year prior, so handing him a belt also breaks the law of must not hand belt within a year of Shield split. Daniel Bryan was in no shape to be the world champion and build a company around at that point. Cesaro and Ziggler are top guy material for the likes of ROH and AEW. They’re not WrestleMania main eventers. Bray Wyatt was a spooky monster heel. He’s a King Kong Bundy or a Kamala, he’s not a Hulk Hogan or The Rock. The role of the WWE top guy is not to placate fans who have already spent years hating everything WWE does and are committed to spending more years hating everything WWE does; the role of the WWE top guy is to be the larger-than-life face of the company on the television shows, in the wider media world, in the expansion of the brand, in the merchandising. They have to look like a star and present themselves as the centrepiece of the company, and behave accordingly. John Cena is the best they’ve ever had at that, because he’s a weird robot man with an insane work ethic and carried that responsibility proudly. He had led the company to all-time record financials before they started pouring money into the WWE network setup costs, and he was starting to wind down his career. His replacement had huge shoes to fill. If you genuinely believe that any of the names you mentioned were more suited to that role than Roman Reigns, you are welcome to that opinion. |
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Post by PJ on Aug 22, 2020 13:49:55 GMT -5
Roman is the worst example you could use for a long term investment. The Shield broke up in the Spring of 2014, and in less than a year Roman was set to be handed the WWE Title at WM31 despite fans rejecting him for other performers. Hard to buy Roman Reigns as an underdog when he was also being constantly pushed as the “Big Dawg” of the Shield for the two years prior. We all know he was Vince’s pet project but the way Cole was immediately putting Roman with the likes of Hogan, Austin, and Rock. Now had they pushed someone that was actually over with he fans into that spot (like Bryan, Ambrose, Cesaro, Dolph, Wyatt, etc)...it’s almost a certainty that the mass fan reaction would have been a positive one. And the fans would have turned. Hell they put the title on Ambrose and it was a total failure because he got complacent just like Austin said he hoped wouldn’t happen. Yet the fans blamed everyone and everything except Ambrose. Now he’s the champ in AEW and he’s still lackluster at best as the World champion. Who’s fault is that? Is he getting another pass because of COVID? When is his poor ring performances his fault? Some people can’t handle the pressure of being in the top posits and that’s ok. But when is the wrestler held accountable for poor performances instead of having excuses made for them? Sure the WWE has missed on money making opportunities, but so has AEW. Seth is right the fans are never going to be happy because if you go the please these fans then those fans will be upset. Or they’ll just turn on them for the next wrestler of the moment. |
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Post by K5 on Aug 22, 2020 13:59:35 GMT -5
let's have a legit conversation here. if you truly think this way, then do you think that fans should've just cheered for Rocky Maivia as his initial face? or do you think the fans hated his clear push, fought against it, and that lead to them using him properly? or what is your take on that? I may have discussed my take on that before, but the difference is that fans booing Rocky Maivia was organic. Booing Roman Reigns is just part of the deeply embedded “you’re not my real dad, Vince, don’t tell me who to like, I’m going to HIJACK RAW ” attitude of the toxic anti-fans of WWE. At the 2014 Royal Rumble, Roman Reigns was cheered because it was trendy at that time to REEEEE about Batista - because Batista was positioned as the top guy. A year later, Reigns was getting the same treatment that Batista got. And all throughout the Roman Reigns rise, people were screeching that it should be Seth Rollins instead. Then, 2019, it was Seth Rollins instead. And what a shocking turn of events that Rollins then got the same treatment that Reigns, Batista and Cena has gotten. The wrestling world in 2015 was very different to the one The Rock came up in. Steve Austin winning the Rumble in 98 was obvious. Batista winning the Rumble in 05 was obvious. But the obvious outcome was fine then, because it fit the story, and people were still watching for the characters and booing/cheering accordingly. Now, for the most part, people (who discuss wrestling online) aren’t watching for the characters and stories - they’re watching from a meta perspective of which actor has the highest workrate as judged by Dave Meltzer, and which one the scoops say is being buried, and the Us vs Them dynamic of hating the Chosen One and championing someone else. And that last part is the one that defeats their enjoyment of it. Because if you spend years demanding that Vince makes Seth the chosen one, and you actually win and Vince does what you ask for, Seth becomes way less cool. He’s got the belt, and Vince booked it that way. Rollins is not the rebel choice anymore, he’s McMahon-approved. So you then have to hate Seth and be furious that Seth has the belt instead of Cesaro or Wyatt or whoever. TLDR - fans booed Rocky Maivia because they enjoyed the WWF but didn’t like Rocky Maivia; “fans“ boo Roman Reigns because they want to stick it to Vince McMahon, the same way they boo John Cena/Batista/Seth Rollins when they hold that position. there's a lot of good points there. I definitely prefer this to arguing you. I think there's a lot of truth to what you say, but I think to believe that the majority disliked Roman because they were directed to is too dismissive of other's ability to think for themselves. I think a lot of roman's decline was due to society not connecting with the idea of a privileged individual in life and in looks to have the number one spot given to him. wrestling had moved away from a lot of the superhero good looks, the underdog is in (punk, Daniels, etc), and wwe simply did not want to go the way that their core fan base wanted them to. not saying wwe is wrong - Roman is a lot more likely to become an action star than Punk or Daniels, looks better on posters by traditional standards, etc. but that didn't jive with a large chunk of the fans. that said, a lot of people just liked going online and complaining. that has been a consistent aspect of this forum since forever. I imagine most forums based on media/content have criticisms posted regularly. I simply think they can do much better. no one can say that raw doesn't drag a bit, it's damn near deadly. so while the criticisms can be outlandish, I believe the defence of the product can be at times, too. |
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Post by K5 on Aug 22, 2020 14:02:38 GMT -5
Roman is the worst example you could use for a long term investment. The Shield broke up in the Spring of 2014, and in less than a year Roman was set to be handed the WWE Title at WM31 despite fans rejecting him for other performers. Hard to buy Roman Reigns as an underdog when he was also being constantly pushed as the “Big Dawg” of the Shield for the two years prior. We all know he was Vince’s pet project but the way Cole was immediately putting Roman with the likes of Hogan, Austin, and Rock. Now had they pushed someone that was actually over with he fans into that spot (like Bryan, Ambrose, Cesaro, Dolph, Wyatt, etc)...it’s almost a certainty that the mass fan reaction would have been a positive one. And the fans would have turned. Hell they put the title on Ambrose and it was a total failure because he got complacent just like Austin said he hoped wouldn’t happen. Yet the fans blamed everyone and everything except Ambrose. Now he’s the champ in AEW and he’s still lackluster at best as the World champion. Who’s fault is that? Is he getting another pass because of COVID? When is his poor ring performances his fault? Some people can’t handle the pressure of being in the top posits and that’s ok. But when is the wrestler held accountable for poor performances instead of having excuses made for them? Sure the WWE has missed on money making opportunities, but so has AEW. Seth is right the fans are never going to be happy because if you go the please these fans then those fans will be upset. Or they’ll just turn on them for the next wrestler of the moment. Moxley is no Stone Cold despite whatever Meltzer said, but I'm not sure that the majority of AEW's audience agrees that he's been a dud. he was very popular at shows, wasn't doing goofy stuff any more (unless you consider his general demanor goofy lol), and was getting to be the 'badass' he wanted to be booked as. essentially, I don't think he's been great - no amazing matches except with omega imo - but imo he's been pretty damn good. that said, I can see the criticisms. comparing him to stone cold is pretty unfair to Mox, but Meltzer did open that door. |
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Aug 22, 2020 16:14:56 GMT -5
Roman is the worst example you could use for a long term investment. The Shield broke up in the Spring of 2014, and in less than a year Roman was set to be handed the WWE Title at WM31 despite fans rejecting him for other performers. Hard to buy Roman Reigns as an underdog when he was also being constantly pushed as the “Big Dawg” of the Shield for the two years prior. We all know he was Vince’s pet project but the way Cole was immediately putting Roman with the likes of Hogan, Austin, and Rock. Now had they pushed someone that was actually over with he fans into that spot (like Bryan, Ambrose, Cesaro, Dolph, Wyatt, etc)...it’s almost a certainty that the mass fan reaction would have been a positive one. And the fans would have turned. Hell they put the title on Ambrose and it was a total failure because he got complacent just like Austin said he hoped wouldn’t happen. Yet the fans blamed everyone and everything except Ambrose. Now he’s the champ in AEW and he’s still lackluster at best as the World champion. Who’s fault is that? Is he getting another pass because of COVID? When is his poor ring performances his fault? Some people can’t handle the pressure of being in the top posits and that’s ok. But when is the wrestler held accountable for poor performances instead of having excuses made for them? Sure the WWE has missed on money making opportunities, but so has AEW. Seth is right the fans are never going to be happy because if you go the please these fans then those fans will be upset. Or they’ll just turn on them for the next wrestler of the moment. I'm not defending Ambrose, but you must admit, tossing him into a feud with Ziggler on Smackdown didn't do him any favours and then that was followed by the Ellsworth and AJ garbage. Before the brand split returned he was on fire, but then again that was early days of his title reign. I admit though, I haven't enjoyed his reign on AEW and that's got nothing to do with booking. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2020 16:46:17 GMT -5
Wasn’t John Cena saying this when he was getting booed like crazy in 2007?
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Post by bWo on Aug 22, 2020 17:23:59 GMT -5
If you're allowed to like what you like, I'm allowed to not like what I don't like.
If you DON'T LIKE WWE and tune into their shows just so you can be on here sh*tting on the product in these threads, you're a sad human being who needs a life. Same thing when people do that with AEW.
I watch and sh*t on Raw a lot, but I've been watching since 1995. I want Raw to be good so I don't have things to complain about, but until they get to that point I'm going to point out what I don't like.
I think most people are the same way. They want Raw to be good. They talk about what they like and they talk about what they don't like. Unfortunately there's sooooo much more stuff they don't like to talk about. Sometimes negativity is still 100% honesty.
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Post by bWo on Aug 22, 2020 17:51:28 GMT -5
I thought the booing of Roman Reigns just turned into a fad. Most of the crowd didn't know why they were booing him, they just wanted to fit in with the atmosphere.
Same thing happened When Kurt Angle came back. He comes out as a good guy WWE HOF legend week after week and people were chanting "you suck" during his entrance? Why? Because they thought that's what they were supposed to do. No matter how little sense it made, the fans kept on doing it. Over and over.
Same thing with the WHAT? chants. They're annoying. They destroy promos. They ruin segments. Yet there are THE FANS chanting it. Why would you go to a show and sabotage it like that? Because it became a fad and people got to a point where they thought that's "just what they do" during promos.
I think that's where the Reigns booing stage was at. I don't think it was a result of people hating his guts.
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Post by marino13 on Aug 23, 2020 10:42:11 GMT -5
I look at it like this, WWE is like a variety show, and not everything is going to click with everyone. I've been watching wrestling for over 30 years and I can't think of a single show that I couldn't find at least one thing that I didn't like. It's the nature of the hobby. That being said, I understand the show isn't written for me and only me, so I don't sweat the small stuff. If Natalya vs Nia is a twenty minutes long snooze-fest, but the rest of the show was good, I'm pleased.
While I always think things could be better, I know things could always be worse. A genius man once said "The good ole days weren't always good, and tomorrow ain't as bad as it seems."
If you're allowed to like what you like, I'm allowed to not like what I don't like. If you DON'T LIKE WWE and tune into their shows just so you can be on here sh*tting on the product in these threads, you're a sad human being who needs a life. Same thing when people do that with AEW. That's just it! If someone watches the show and thinks meh, that's cool. Chip watches and complains nonstop, but at least he's watching and judging it for himself. I can respect that. What bothers me are the ones who say they don't watch, or proclaim to everyone they refuse to watch like it earns them street cred. Yet they are in the threads afterwards to tell you why the show was awful. They pop into thread after thread with subtle digs at every and any topic they can. Then they claim it's constructive criticism when it's clearly not. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2020 12:24:54 GMT -5
I look at it like this, WWE is like a variety show, and not everything is going to click with everyone. I've been watching wrestling for over 30 years and I can't think of a single show that I couldn't find at least one thing that I didn't like. It's the nature of the hobby. That being said, I understand the show isn't written for me and only me, so I don't sweat the small stuff. If Natalya vs Nia is a twenty minutes long snooze-fest, but the rest of the show was good, I'm pleased.
While I always think things could be better, I know things could always be worse. A genius man once said "The good ole days weren't always good, and tomorrow ain't as bad as it seems."
If you're allowed to like what you like, I'm allowed to not like what I don't like. If you DON'T LIKE WWE and tune into their shows just so you can be on here sh*tting on the product in these threads, you're a sad human being who needs a life. Same thing when people do that with AEW. That's just it! If someone watches the show and thinks meh, that's cool. Chip watches and complains nonstop, but at least he's watching and judging it for himself. I can respect that. What bothers me are the ones who say they don't watch, or proclaim to everyone they refuse to watch like it earns them street cred. Yet they are in the threads afterwards to tell you why the show was awful. They pop into thread after thread with subtle digs at every and any topic they can. Then they claim it's constructive criticism when it's clearly not. I bolded that one part because it's super spot on. I think you could even widen the scope of that to just wrestling in general. I think that's a hugely important part in terms of capturing a wide audience too. The amount of threads on this site where you see one person put something over and then the next person say it was like their least favourite thing are just a small indication of how true that is. Not a bad thing either, I'm not complaining that it happens. It kinda needs to be that way. Second part is also very acccurate. Personally, I had stopped watching RAW/SD specifically for a while. The narrative at the time was "if you aren't enjoying, why are you watching", and with the sheer amount of wrestling out there, I had to agree. (Although just for the sake of seperating myself from that 'street cred' crowd, I did not loudly proclaim it everywhere lol). I still watched the PPV's, and commented on those, but I don't think I even read a single RAW/SD thread in the time I wasn't watching. It was off your review of one I did check out the thread for (I think it was probably because of some debut or something and I wanted to read up to see how it went), and I thought it had enough stuff that appealed I'd try watching again. Personally, I'm glad I did. I haven't loved everything, but there's been enough that I've enjoyed and enough changes from 8 months ago that I can see that as long as I can find the time I'll keep watching again. I totally understand what you mean about this second part here, and I agree with both you and bwo on this front. (I'm aware you weren't targeting me at all with this message, and I realized as I was writing it kind of sounded like I was saying you were, and that's not the case. I just think my story is very applicable to the points you and bwo were making so I thought I'd share it, that's all) This thread turned into a really great discussion! |
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walkingturtles
Main Eventer
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Post by walkingturtles on Aug 23, 2020 12:48:19 GMT -5
I’ll chime in that I prefer more main event factions and tag teams. Where are my Four Horsemen and Evolution of yesteryear. Where’s my nWo, New Age Outlaws and such. It’s one of the reasons I love AEW.
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Post by bWo on Aug 23, 2020 14:26:04 GMT -5
I’ll chime in that I prefer more main event factions and tag teams. Where are my Four Horsemen and Evolution of yesteryear. Where’s my nWo, New Age Outlaws and such. It’s one of the reasons I love AEW. I really don't like the idea of The Lucha Bros. and Butcher and The Blade being with Eddie Kingston? Why TWO tag teams? If the Bros. have the tag titles what are B and The B going to do? Or the other way around? It was clear with The nWo that Hogan was in charge. When he was World Champion nobody else in the group wanted to take his title. I don't see that hierarchy in this group with Kingston and 2 tag teams. |
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Post by cordless2016 on Aug 23, 2020 15:49:25 GMT -5
Roman is the worst example you could use for a long term investment. The Shield broke up in the Spring of 2014, and in less than a year Roman was set to be handed the WWE Title at WM31 despite fans rejecting him for other performers. Hard to buy Roman Reigns as an underdog when he was also being constantly pushed as the “Big Dawg” of the Shield for the two years prior. We all know he was Vince’s pet project but the way Cole was immediately putting Roman with the likes of Hogan, Austin, and Rock. Now had they pushed someone that was actually over with he fans into that spot (like Bryan, Ambrose, Cesaro, Dolph, Wyatt, etc)...it’s almost a certainty that the mass fan reaction would have been a positive one. And the fans would have turned. Hell they put the title on Ambrose and it was a total failure because he got complacent just like Austin said he hoped wouldn’t happen. Yet the fans blamed everyone and everything except Ambrose. Now he’s the champ in AEW and he’s still lackluster at best as the World champion. Who’s fault is that? Is he getting another pass because of COVID? When is his poor ring performances his fault? Some people can’t handle the pressure of being in the top posits and that’s ok. But when is the wrestler held accountable for poor performances instead of having excuses made for them? Sure the WWE has missed on money making opportunities, but so has AEW. Seth is right the fans are never going to be happy because if you go the please these fans then those fans will be upset. Or they’ll just turn on them for the next wrestler of the moment. You’re kidding right? They put the title on Ambrose after 2 years of jobbing him out to everyone under the sun. Then they were basically forced to put the title on him after their golden boy failed a drug test. And despite all this he still remained massively over despite the WWE making him the third wheel to Cena and AJ post brand split 2016. Austin claims Ambrose became complacent yet Ambrose told him straight up that it isn’t the 90s any longer and they are forced to read from pre-written promos. You think Austin would still get over today with the crap Vince feeds to guys in 2020...I don’t see that as an excuse when countless other performers have stated the same thing. You bring up Mox’s run in AEW being lackluster yet his segments on Dynamite consistently draws the most viewers on the show. And considering he was going to feud with a red-hot PAC before COVID I’d say it’s a fine excuse that his run hasn’t been the best considering he had to work with Hager of all people iaa an emergency backup. But sure, continue to blindly defend the WWE despite the tanking ratings proving that Seth is wrong. Maybe instead of pushing Roman down our throats for 5 years, push someone getting positive reactions like Ambrose during his peak of 2014-2015. Or even better, position Punk as the man in 2011/2012 considering the merch he was moving proved the fans wanted him in that role. Maybe then fans wouldn’t have fled in droves over the past decade. |
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Post by Next Manufactured’s Sweater on Aug 23, 2020 15:51:56 GMT -5
I’ll chime in that I prefer more main event factions and tag teams. Where are my Four Horsemen and Evolution of yesteryear. Where’s my nWo, New Age Outlaws and such. It’s one of the reasons I love AEW. I really don't like the idea of The Lucha Bros. and Butcher and The Blade being with Eddie Kingston? Why TWO tag teams? If the Bros. have the tag titles what are B and The B going to do? Or the other way around? It was clear with The nWo that Hogan was in charge. When he was World Champion nobody else in the group wanted to take his title. I don't see that hierarchy in this group with Kingston and 2 tag teams. That’s easy - they join forces to dominate the division. Then once they’ve destroyed all the other teams, they fight it out between each other to determine the tag champions. |
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Post by PJ on Aug 23, 2020 16:22:24 GMT -5
And the fans would have turned. Hell they put the title on Ambrose and it was a total failure because he got complacent just like Austin said he hoped wouldn’t happen. Yet the fans blamed everyone and everything except Ambrose. Now he’s the champ in AEW and he’s still lackluster at best as the World champion. Who’s fault is that? Is he getting another pass because of COVID? When is his poor ring performances his fault? Some people can’t handle the pressure of being in the top posits and that’s ok. But when is the wrestler held accountable for poor performances instead of having excuses made for them? Sure the WWE has missed on money making opportunities, but so has AEW. Seth is right the fans are never going to be happy because if you go the please these fans then those fans will be upset. Or they’ll just turn on them for the next wrestler of the moment. You’re kidding right? They put the title on Ambrose after 2 years of jobbing him out to everyone under the sun. Then they were basically forced to put the title on him after their golden boy failed a drug test. And despite all this he still remained massively over despite the WWE making him the third wheel to Cena and AJ post brand split 2016. Austin claims Ambrose became complacent yet Ambrose told him straight up that it isn’t the 90s any longer and they are forced to read from pre-written promos. You think Austin would still get over today with the crap Vince feeds to guys in 2020...I don’t see that as an excuse when countless other performers have stated the same thing. You bring up Mox’s run in AEW being lackluster yet his segments on Dynamite consistently draws the most viewers on the show. And considering he was going to feud with a red-hot PAC before COVID I’d say it’s a fine excuse that his run hasn’t been the best considering he had to work with Hager of all people iaa an emergency backup. But sure, continue to blindly defend the WWE despite the tanking ratings proving that Seth is wrong. lol. No Austin never said Ambrose got complacent. He said he didn’t want to see Ambrose get complacent. And that is exactly what Ambrose ended up doing. Austin had nothing to do with Ambrose’s lackluster matches. That was all on Ambrose. More than seventy five percent of his matches he looked like he was doing walkthroughs. I am so tired of people complaining about certain wrestlers “jobbing out” The WWE was paying him (and everyone else) to preform. That’s their jobs to entertain not be a champion. If the company doesn’t what them to be a champion then that’s the end of it. The talent aren’t entitled anything more that a job. And back to Ambrose he was barely putting any effort into his matches. Ninety percent of the punches he threw in the WWE missed by at least 6+ inches and looked like he was beating up air. But that’s the WWE’s fault. Any other job in the world he would have been fired for poor performances. And he hasn’t wowed anyone in AEW either. While his intensity in ring has picked up a bit he still throws the same horrible looking air punches. But he’s great. lol So now because of COVID you’re blaming his opponents for his poor matches...It’s never his fault. Is he not a Top guy? If he is like you think he is he should be able to elevate his lesser talented opponents. The one thing I respect him for is he didn’t walk out, but stayed and finished out his contract. Today’s so called fans piss and moan about everything and how everything is being force on them. Then they give the fans what they were crying for and then the fans cry about how that is being force on them and they want something else. If I was the wwe I wouldn’t listen to the fans either. I would run my shows how I was planning to. Will everyone like everything about them? No certainty not, but there still would be fans who do. Do I watch the product now? No not really I DVR it and fast forward through it and just watch the few wrestlers or stories I do like. And just stick to the main 4 PPV’s live. The other PPV’s I will watch a day or two after and fast forward to what I thought would be entertaining. And if while I am watching them they aren’t entertaining I will fast forward those as well. There’s plenty of stuff on RAW, SD, NXT and AEW that I don’t find in the slightest bit entertaining, but there’s also stuff I do find entertaining. And it’s been that way since I started watching wrestling in the mid 70’s. The difference now is I can fast forward the stuff I don’t like. |
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Post by kennyw86v2 on Aug 23, 2020 17:02:33 GMT -5
In an Interview with Sporting News recently, Seth had this response: On how he doesn’t know what fans want: “It’s funny how that works. I don’t know what the fans want. You give them what they want and they reject it. Then you give them what they want again and after two weeks and they want what they rejected. It’s such a weird roller coaster. Wrestling fandom is one of the wildest things in the world. We have to do things week to week because we really don’t have things planned and done for weeks like a TV show. Everything changes week to week. I can’t imagine being somebody who has to write a wrestling show; you have to lose your hair. I can just do my job the best I can.” Once again dude just puts his foot in his mouth. Fans today love long term coherent story-telling. Game of Thrones took 8 seasons to get to plots they introduced the first episodes. Problem is WWE is booked by sitcom writers and out of touch Vince. But hes right. People in general, especially wrestling fans, change what they want almost hourly. We turn on everyone when they get over, we pretend everyone deserves "better" until they get it, we piss and moan when things seem stagnant, even though that is part of good story telling, and force changes to be made because of it. Foot ain't in his mouth. Hes on point. |
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