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Post by hbkjason on Aug 26, 2020 2:00:19 GMT -5
What If The Undertaker Walked Out Of SummerSlam 1997 Still WWF Champion? Ok, I thought this might be a fun one So at SummerSlam 1997, Bret Hart wins his fifth and final WWF Championship, after Shawn Michaels hits Undertaker with the steel chair and has to make the three count. This was more done to set up the Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels feud than do anything for Bret. However, the stipulation was that Shawn Michaels could not screw Bret Hart and had to call it down the middle. So what if after he nailed the Undertaker with the chair, he then nails Bret Hart as well leaving both men laying out? I think that we still get the Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels feud that we got, probably with Shawn Michaels taking the title off him at Bad Blood due to the interference from Kane. The big question is what happens to Vince McMahon? If they never put the title on Bret Hart at SummerSlam they never have that issue of trying to get the belt off him at Survivor Series, thus the Mr. McMahon character may not have become what it was. The ripple effect this could have caused is truly massive. Would the Austin vs McMahon run have still happened? Also, WCW would have gotten a Bret Hart that did not have as big a chip on his shoulder. So who knows, he could have been an epic babyface their. I do not see much changing for Undertaker at all had he kept the belt past SummerSlam, but I feel for the rest of the wrestling world him walking out of SummerSlam as the champion may have had a fairly big impact. Thanks for reading and I would love to know what you guys think could have happened had they not put the belt on Bret Hart at SummerSlam, |
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Warriah'
Main Eventer
Joined on: Dec 22, 2019 19:46:02 GMT -5
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Post by Warriah' on Aug 26, 2020 3:02:09 GMT -5
I doubt whether Montreal happened or not that wcw would have utilised Bret effectively as they had no idea how to.
One difference would be that Rick Rude, Crush, Davey Boy and possibly Neidhart don't leave the WWF alongside Bret.
Owen Hart is very unlikely to have been in the Blue Blazer gimmick 2 years later, and would likely still be alive to this day. Who knows what kind of ripple effect that could have had?
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Post by hbkjason on Aug 26, 2020 3:31:32 GMT -5
I doubt whether Montreal happened or not that wcw would have utilised Bret effectively as they had no idea how to. One difference would be that Rick Rude, Crush, Davey Boy and possibly Neidhart don't leave the WWF alongside Bret. Owen Hart is very unlikely to have been in the Blue Blazer gimmick 2 years later, and would likely still be alive to this day. Who knows what kind of ripple effect that could have had? I didn't even think about Bulldog and Anvil!!! I think you are right I could see them not leaving if Bret left in a more "friendly" way. |
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Warriah'
Main Eventer
Joined on: Dec 22, 2019 19:46:02 GMT -5
Posts: 3,261
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Post by Warriah' on Aug 26, 2020 5:27:25 GMT -5
I doubt whether Montreal happened or not that wcw would have utilised Bret effectively as they had no idea how to. One difference would be that Rick Rude, Crush, Davey Boy and possibly Neidhart don't leave the WWF alongside Bret. Owen Hart is very unlikely to have been in the Blue Blazer gimmick 2 years later, and would likely still be alive to this day. Who knows what kind of ripple effect that could have had? I didn't even think about Bulldog and Anvil!!! I think you are right I could see them not leaving if Bret left in a more "friendly" way. Bulldog definitely wouldn't have left. He paid 100k to get out of his WWF contract so he could go to WCW, it was solely out of what happened to Bret. Neidhart MAY have still left given that Bret was still going, he only had a limited WWF contract in 97 and Bischoff said he loved Neidhart and was happy to make him a good offer. I think either way the Hart Foundation would have continued with Owen as the leader, with Furnas and Lefon joining. |
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Post by MKSavage on Aug 26, 2020 13:28:31 GMT -5
I doubt whether Montreal happened or not that wcw would have utilised Bret effectively as they had no idea how to. One difference would be that Rick Rude, Crush, Davey Boy and possibly Neidhart don't leave the WWF alongside Bret. Owen Hart is very unlikely to have been in the Blue Blazer gimmick 2 years later, and would likely still be alive to this day. Who knows what kind of ripple effect that could have had? I agree that the others probably wouldn't have left but I think the blue blazer gimmick may have stilled happened. Its been said that they put him in that gimmick as a way to punish him for not wanting to do the affair angle with Jarrett/Debra McMichael. It could have still happened, especially if the WWF still went with the Attitude Era with raunchier storylines which Owen did not care for that much. |
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Warriah'
Main Eventer
Joined on: Dec 22, 2019 19:46:02 GMT -5
Posts: 3,261
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Post by Warriah' on Aug 26, 2020 13:48:10 GMT -5
I doubt whether Montreal happened or not that wcw would have utilised Bret effectively as they had no idea how to. One difference would be that Rick Rude, Crush, Davey Boy and possibly Neidhart don't leave the WWF alongside Bret. Owen Hart is very unlikely to have been in the Blue Blazer gimmick 2 years later, and would likely still be alive to this day. Who knows what kind of ripple effect that could have had? I agree that the others probably wouldn't have left but I think the blue blazer gimmick may have stilled happened. Its been said that they put him in that gimmick as a way to punish him for not wanting to do the affair angle with Jarrett/Debra McMichael. It could have still happened, especially if the WWF still went with the Attitude Era with raunchier storylines which Owen did not care for that much. I don't think Owen and Jarrett would have ever had a reason to team up if the other Harts had stuck around. I'm sure Owen would have been teaming with Davey or leading the Harts well into 99. Hell, the plan when WWF resigned Bulldog in 99 was to reunite them as a team and Owen was very excited about it. |
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Post by MKSavage on Aug 26, 2020 13:52:04 GMT -5
It's an interesting thing to think about. I actually really liked the Summer Slam match, especially the ending. It would have been interesting to see how they handled the stipulation for the match, since Bret did not win the match he would not have been able to wrestle in the U.S. anymore. They could have done vignettes of him in Canada badmouthing the U.S. and Shawn Michaels, saying that it was all a conspiracy to get him out of the WWF. This could have set up a match at Survivor Series between the two, since it happened in Canada where Bret could still wrestle, the stipulations to this match could be if Bret wins he can wrestle in the U.S. again, but if he loses he is fired from the WWF all together. This could have been a good stipulation for him leaving for the WCW.
As for the fallout, you may not have gotten Vince McMahon which would have been a huge blow to the attitude era, lets face it he was the most over heel in the company during that time. It might still have happened because you had Austin who was an anti-authority anti-hero, if Vince kept interviewing him in the ring and Austin kept stunning him anyway, I think the fans would have turned on Vince even without the Screwjob ever happening - though the Screwjob really helped fans despise Vince McMahon. If they still did that segment in the ring where Vince brings down Mike Tyson, Austin comes out gets shoved by Tyson, Vince goes ballistic which makes him want to do everything to destroy Austin, it could have started the Mr. McMahon gimmick then and there.
I don't think anything could have helped Bret in WCW, they really didn't seem to want to use him. I watched an interview with Kevin Sullivan, who was the head writer at the time, he said that he pitched a ton of ideas to Hogan about facing Bret and Hogan turned them all down, basically blocking Bret from moving up. Bret has said, in numerous interviews, that he pitched ideas about working with certain guys in WCW, they would say they would think about it but never do anything with it. It's funny, it seems that WCW screwed Bret way more than the WWF did.
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Post by JokerFC on Aug 26, 2020 13:54:15 GMT -5
ah man...ANOTHER great post. HUGE one this and its what should have happened. Vince knew at this point in time he wanted Bret to take the offer down south. So why the hell did he put the belt on him...all the trouble evaporates with UT as champ.
Ok here goes....Undertaker wins and you still sow the seeds of the HBK/Hart feud with a minor tweak to the end of the match. UT falls out of the ring after the chair shot & Hart & HBK get into it...UT recovers and the match continues. UT wins after another bit of battling.
Undertaker vs HBK @ IYH Ground Zero still happens & DX interferes causing HBK to get DQd. DX beatdown happens after prompting HIAC. Earlier in the night HBK tries to interfere in Hart vs Patriot but ends up helping Hart by mistake...heat continues.
IYH: Bad Blood. Bret still does the Flag Match with Buldog vs Vader & Patriot and HBK beats Taker for the belt in the Cell. That match goes down EXACTLY the same.
Bret is bound for WCW so he goes to Survivor Series and they battle to a DQ or he does the job. Bret wasnt champ...so there would have been far less heat surrounding McMahon, Bret, HBK & their conversations because
1) Theres no hand wringing about Bret dropping to Shawn & the sh*t it will cause.
2) HBK isnt losing at SSeries & is already champ...so hes automatically dialled down to a 5 on the dickhead scale.
3) McMahon is less frantic because the scenario of Bret leaving with the title etc etc etc isnt a factor.
It may however have effected the creation of the Mr McMahon character. We likely would have seen the HF continue as a faction with Furnas & Lafon added.
but the ripple effect here is MASSIVE.
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Post by The Brain on Aug 26, 2020 14:21:37 GMT -5
Taker losing the belt to HBK in the cell sounds like the safe bet.It would've added even more to Kane's debut with him not only coming back for revenge on his brother after all those years but costing him the title on top of it all. As far as Bret goes I like MKSavage idea of him at home in Canada ticked off over the events of SSlam with him challenging HBK in a match at SSeries in which if he wins he gets the belt and can return to action in the US and if he loses he has to leave the WWF for good. As far as Vince goes, They were teasing tension with Austin for months so i gotta think he wouldve eventually just snapped and left the booth with him starting his Mr. McMahon character soon after.The Tyson incident sounds like a good time. |
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Post by hbkjason on Aug 26, 2020 15:26:21 GMT -5
ah man...ANOTHER great post. HUGE one this and its what should have happened. Vince knew at this point in time he wanted Bret to take the offer down south. So why the hell did he put the belt on him...all the trouble evaporates with UT as champ. Ok here goes....Undertaker wins and you still sow the seeds of the HBK/Hart feud with a minor tweak to the end of the match. UT falls out of the ring after the chair shot & Hart & HBK get into it...UT recovers and the match continues. UT wins after another bit of battling. Undertaker vs HBK @ IYH Ground Zero still happens & DX interferes causing HBK to get DQd. DX beatdown happens after prompting HIAC. Earlier in the night HBK tries to interfere in Hart vs Patriot but ends up helping Hart by mistake...heat continues. IYH: Bad Blood. Bret still does the Flag Match with Buldog vs Vader & Patriot and HBK beats Taker for the belt in the Cell. That match goes down EXACTLY the same. Bret is bound for WCW so he goes to Survivor Series and they battle to a DQ or he does the job. Bret wasnt champ...so there would have been far less heat surrounding McMahon, Bret, HBK & their conversations because 1) Theres no hand wringing about Bret dropping to Shawn & the sh*t it will cause. 2) HBK isnt losing at SSeries & is already champ...so hes automatically dialled down to a 5 on the dickhead scale.3) McMahon is less frantic because the scenario of Bret leaving with the title etc etc etc isnt a factor. It may however have effected the creation of the Mr McMahon character. We likely would have seen the HF continue as a faction with Furnas & Lafon added. but the ripple effect here is MASSIVE. That legit made me laugh, Thanks to all for the replies. It sounds like such a simple thing for Undertaker to walk out of that PPV champ, but when you really think about it had that happened things for many, many people could have been drastically different. |
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Aug 26, 2020 15:53:48 GMT -5
I believe that the Mr McMahon character was planed long before the screwjob. It all started in 96 when JR called Vince the owner in front of a live audience and then throughout 97, you could see tensions raise between him and Hart. I even remember then getting into an altercation when Bret hit the headphones of Vince's head.
Vince's days at the commentary table were on their last legs and the screwjob IMO gave him the kickstart.
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Post by The Brain on Aug 26, 2020 15:59:34 GMT -5
I believe that the Mr McMahon character was planed long before the screwjob. It all started in 96 when JR called Vince the owner in front of a live audience and then throughout 97, you could see tensions raise between him and Hart. I even remember then getting into an altercation when Bret hit the headphones of Vince's head. Vince's days at the commentary table were on their last legs and the screwjob IMO gave him the kickstart. Vince first showed his heel persona in Memphis during the early 90s. |
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Post by JokerFC on Aug 27, 2020 10:09:28 GMT -5
I believe that the Mr McMahon character was planed long before the screwjob. It all started in 96 when JR called Vince the owner in front of a live audience and then throughout 97, you could see tensions raise between him and Hart. I even remember then getting into an altercation when Bret hit the headphones of Vince's head. Vince's days at the commentary table were on their last legs and the screwjob IMO gave him the kickstart. Lots of folks have said The Mr McMahon character was an accident & I believe them..... Why would everyone be saying it wasn an accident if it was planned? It was brilliant booking & character creation after all yet nobody takes credit because they all say it was organic & that Vince didnt want to do it. But when he did? He embraced it and it got legs...QUICK. |
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