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Post by stc13 on Dec 5, 2020 18:44:14 GMT -5
I've been watching some mid 90's PPV's, and started thinking about the impact of the Lloyds of London disability policies on the business.
Between 1993-94, Rick Rude, Curt Hennig, Ted DiBiase, and Road Warrior Animal all had injuries that were deemed "career ending," triggering their lump sum insurance payouts from Lloyds of London. I've also seen Ricky Steamboat mentioned as having a Lloyds policy, but I'm not certain on that since he did have a couple of matches with Jericho in the 2000's. Obviously Animal and Hennig both returned to the ring once business (and contracts) picked up, and Rude was rumored to want to return to the ring but didn't have the money to pay back his Lloyds policy.
You're arguably talking about 5 of the top 20-25 wrestlers in the US in terms of name value around that time. Business was already trending down in 92-93, and both WWF and WCW were in a creative and business funk through 94/95. But is it really that shocking when you lose that much drawing power in such a short span? DiBiase and Steamboat had transitioned into gatekeeper roles by this point and were working more tag matches but were still only 39 and 41 when they retired. Rude and Hennig were only 35. And Lloyds of London stopped insurance policies for wrestlers shortly after, realizing that they had probably been taken to the cleaners. I think it's pretty likely that all of the wrestlers I mentioned continue wrestling in some capacity if they don't have the insurance payout.
So what does the mid 90's landscape look like if Lloyds of London policies never existed? Does business hit the same lows? Does having the "old guard" around help make new stars, or hold back younger talent that ended getting elevated through 95/96? Curious to see what everyone thinks.
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Post by jason88cubs on Dec 5, 2020 19:45:35 GMT -5
Well Rude probably would have had to take a extended break. Wasn't his back severely messed up?
Henning would have left for WCW in probably 97 and went NWO after putting over HHH in WWF
Road Warrior ANimal? Tough to say since Hawk had his demons but I could see Road Warriors going to WCW in 94 but leaving around end of 96
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Post by The Brain on Dec 5, 2020 19:55:56 GMT -5
It still bothers me we never got that Mr. Perfect in-ring return in 96 because of this policy.
Imagine the POP he wouldve got at say SSeries that year at MSG if he beat Trips for the IC belt.What a comeback story that would've been.
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Thunder Chunky
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Post by Thunder Chunky on Dec 5, 2020 20:16:03 GMT -5
I remember reading once that there was a loophole in Animal's policy that stated he couldn't wrestle singles matches after taking a payout and that's why he wrestled multi man matches in his last WCW run.
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jason1980s
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Post by jason1980s on Dec 5, 2020 21:10:22 GMT -5
It still bothers me we never got that Mr. Perfect in-ring return in 96 because of this policy. Imagine the POP he wouldve got at say SSeries that year at MSG if he beat Trips for the IC belt.What a comeback story that would've been. I think he would have rather wrestled but other than the policy I also think Vince liked him in the commentator or consultant role. I think Perfect, along with Bret, were guys that Vince looked at like sons and wanted them in non wrestling roles for their retirement. And fans were wanting to cheer him yet he turned heel twice when it seemed like he was meant to be face. 1994 at WM X which I get because of the Luger backstory but fans would have rather cheered Perfect than Luger and also late 1996 with Mero and HHH feud. WM X would have been a great way for Luger to turn heel even if Perfect hadn't stuck around. Fans would have rather cheered Perfect than Mero or HHH at the time, too. I have to think he preferred the heel role since I would think Vince would know fans wanted him as face. |
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Post by The Brain on Dec 5, 2020 21:23:00 GMT -5
It still bothers me we never got that Mr. Perfect in-ring return in 96 because of this policy. Imagine the POP he wouldve got at say SSeries that year at MSG if he beat Trips for the IC belt.What a comeback story that would've been. I think he would have rather wrestled but other than the policy I also think Vince liked him in the commentator or consultant role. I think Perfect, along with Bret, were guys that Vince looked at like sons and wanted them in non wrestling roles for their retirement. And fans were wanting to cheer him yet he turned heel twice when it seemed like he was meant to be face. 1994 at WM X which I get because of the Luger backstory but fans would have rather cheered Perfect than Luger and also late 1996 with Mero and HHH feud. WM X would have been a great way for Luger to turn heel even if Perfect hadn't stuck around. Fans would have rather cheered Perfect than Mero or HHH at the time, too. I have to think he preferred the heel role since I would think Vince would know fans wanted him as face. He was definitely much better as a heel no doubt about that. He had to be babyface in late 96 as it'd fit the comeback stuff but they could've turned em heel in early 97 for a feud with Rocky.I'm sure he wouldve had no problem putting em over in the end. |
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Post by K5 on Dec 5, 2020 22:32:26 GMT -5
the Lloyds of London wrestlers, rather legit injured or not as the case may be, certainly had an effect on the 90s wrestling climate. however, I think it was more guys getting big guaranteed contracts down South to not do near as many dates, near as much pressure, and free to party etc. that lead to much of the mid 90s stale low point.
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nibs92
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Post by nibs92 on Dec 6, 2020 3:54:45 GMT -5
I think the payouts helped protect the legacy’s of Rude, Perfect etc. Without a lump sum payment, said wrestlers and others would have likely had to continue wrestling to pay the bills and injuries would have severely affected their in ring work.
If you look at the excellent IC bout at Summerslam 91, it still impresses me that Hennig performed that well whilst injured. Had he continued wrestling constantly beyond that point, I think his performances would have deteriorated to the point you’d be willing him to walk away.
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Post by cordless2016 on Dec 6, 2020 10:34:05 GMT -5
Well Rude probably would have had to take a extended break. Wasn't his back severely messed up? Henning would have left for WCW in probably 97 and went NWO after putting over HHH in WWF Road Warrior ANimal? Tough to say since Hawk had his demons but I could see Road Warriors going to WCW in 94 but leaving around end of 96 Bischoff talks about Rude’s injury in his 83 Weeks podcast. While the injury was devastating and Rude needed time off to heal, he speculated that Rude and others saw the Lloyds policies as an easy cash-grab and decided to end their careers. Then a few years later when the business started to boom, guys like Rude and Hennig wanted a piece of the pie (can’t blame em). Again, Eric didn’t question the severity of Rude’s injury. He just suspected it wasn’t career ending as Rude had made it out to be in 1994. This is backed up by Rude asking both Eric and Vince to pay off Lloyds of London for him (which both refused due to not being able to justify paying off a six figure Lloyds policy and then having to sign Rude to a six figure contract). |
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Post by stc13 on Dec 6, 2020 12:26:38 GMT -5
Well Rude probably would have had to take a extended break. Wasn't his back severely messed up? Henning would have left for WCW in probably 97 and went NWO after putting over HHH in WWF Road Warrior ANimal? Tough to say since Hawk had his demons but I could see Road Warriors going to WCW in 94 but leaving around end of 96 Bischoff talks about Rude’s injury in his 83 Weeks podcast. While the injury was devastating and Rude needed time off to heal, he speculated that Rude and others saw the Lloyds policies as an easy cash-grab and decided to end their careers. Then a few years later when the business started to boom, guys like Rude and Hennig wanted a piece of the pie (can’t blame em). Again, Eric didn’t question the severity of Rude’s injury. He just suspected it wasn’t career ending as Rude had made it out to be in 1994. This is backed up by Rude asking both Eric and Vince to pay off Lloyds of London for him (which both refused due to not being able to justify paying off a six figure Lloyds policy and then having to sign Rude to a six figure contract). Yeah, I think that is sort of the million dollar question. Without the policies, we probably see DiBiase work hurt for another year or two. Maybe Rude needs 6-9 months off, but would be back by mid 95. Hennig may work through 94/95. Not sure what could/couldn't happen with Animal or Steamboat given their policies. I think that added star power makes a big difference in drawing better crowds in 94/95. Does it likely hurt their "workrate"? Possibly. But we've also seen a lot of guys adjust their style post-injury and have hugely successful runs. I think Hennig would have easily slotted in towards the top of the card in 94/95, when the heel roster was probably as weak as it's ever been. I could see him working programs with Hart, Diesel, Michaels, and then sliding down the card to help put over guys like Mero and Ahmed Johnson into 96. Rude would have added more depth in WCW's main event scene, and maybe we could have avoided such gems as seeing Beefcake and Jeep Swenson main eventing PPV's. On the whole, I don't think the business would hit the lows that it reached in 94/95. So I think in the short term, it's a big boost. But I wonder if that would also have made both companies less likely to take the turns that ended up creating the NWO and Attitude Era in WWF. |
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Post by The Brain on Dec 6, 2020 12:33:37 GMT -5
Rude vs Hogan for the belt at Starrcade 94 wouldve been wayyyyyyyyy more ideal than Hogan/Butcher.
Rude would have no chance of winning but the match wouldve been so much better and on top of it just be a deserving main event for their biggest show of the year.
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Post by cordless2016 on Dec 6, 2020 13:52:21 GMT -5
Rude vs Hogan for the belt at Starrcade 94 wouldve been wayyyyyyyyy more ideal than Hogan/Butcher. Rude would have no chance of winning but the match wouldve been so much better and on top of it just be a deserving main event for their biggest show of the year. I’ve always wondered if Rude would have even stayed with WCW once Hogan arrived had he not gotten hurt. Part of the reason he left the WWF was due to being tired of putting over others and not getting a shot at being a top guy (pay disputes played into it as well). Once Hogan came in and started bringing in his friends as well, I’m not sure how long Rude would have stuck around if guys like Beefcake were being pushed above him. Maybe he returns to the WWF once his contract expired, or maybe has a stint in ECW for a bit. |
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Post by The Brain on Dec 6, 2020 13:59:44 GMT -5
Rude vs Hogan for the belt at Starrcade 94 wouldve been wayyyyyyyyy more ideal than Hogan/Butcher. Rude would have no chance of winning but the match wouldve been so much better and on top of it just be a deserving main event for their biggest show of the year. I’ve always wondered if Rude would have even stayed with WCW once Hogan arrived had he not gotten hurt. Part of the reason he left the WWF was due to being tired of putting over others and not getting a shot at being a top guy (pay disputes played into it as well). Once Hogan came in and started bringing in his friends as well, I’m not sure how long Rude would have stuck around if guys like Beefcake were being pushed above him. Maybe he returns to the WWF once his contract expired, or maybe has a stint in ECW for a bit. We all know what Hogan did to Vader so I can absolutely see Rude getting that same treatment. If he did leave by 95 at least give us a match/feud with Mach. |
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Post by JokerFC on Dec 7, 2020 6:43:39 GMT -5
Interesting question & some great points in here. Its genuinely something I never really thought about.
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mrassbillygunn
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Post by mrassbillygunn on Dec 7, 2020 12:07:08 GMT -5
Rude vs Hogan for the belt at Starrcade 94 wouldve been wayyyyyyyyy more ideal than Hogan/Butcher. Rude would have no chance of winning but the match wouldve been so much better and on top of it just be a deserving main event for their biggest show of the year. The match prob would never have happened. Hogan considered Rude dangerous to work with. I remember Jake talking about that in a shoot interview, about why Rude never got a title shot. Jake himself said Rude would get very wound up in the ring. Take that for what its worth. |
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Post by MKSavage on Dec 7, 2020 13:05:28 GMT -5
Rude vs Hogan for the belt at Starrcade 94 wouldve been wayyyyyyyyy more ideal than Hogan/Butcher. Rude would have no chance of winning but the match wouldve been so much better and on top of it just be a deserving main event for their biggest show of the year. I’ve always wondered if Rude would have even stayed with WCW once Hogan arrived had he not gotten hurt. Part of the reason he left the WWF was due to being tired of putting over others and not getting a shot at being a top guy (pay disputes played into it as well). Once Hogan came in and started bringing in his friends as well, I’m not sure how long Rude would have stuck around if guys like Beefcake were being pushed above him. Maybe he returns to the WWF once his contract expired, or maybe has a stint in ECW for a bit. That would have been great, WWF was in need of a top heel at the time with Bret, HBK, Taker, Diesel, Razor, Lex and Bulldog all on the baby face side. I think Rude coming in as DiBiase's special enforcer type character would have been cool. A feud with the Hitman, HBK, Razor and Lex would have been entertaining. Maybe he could have had a run with the belt. He beats Diesel for it at Summer Slam and loses it to Bret at the Survivor Series (or even push it to the Royal Rumble in 96). |
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Post by The Brain on Dec 7, 2020 13:14:47 GMT -5
I’ve always wondered if Rude would have even stayed with WCW once Hogan arrived had he not gotten hurt. Part of the reason he left the WWF was due to being tired of putting over others and not getting a shot at being a top guy (pay disputes played into it as well). Once Hogan came in and started bringing in his friends as well, I’m not sure how long Rude would have stuck around if guys like Beefcake were being pushed above him. Maybe he returns to the WWF once his contract expired, or maybe has a stint in ECW for a bit. That would have been great, WWF was in need of a top heel at the time with Bret, HBK, Taker, Diesel, Razor, Lex and Bulldog all on the baby face side. I think Rude coming in as DiBiase's special enforcer type character would have been cool. A feud with the Hitman, HBK, Razor and Lex would have been entertaining. Maybe he could have had a run with the belt. He beats Diesel for it at Summer Slam and loses it to Bret at the Survivor Series (or even push it to the Royal Rumble in 96). Rude vs Bret  |
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Post by jason88cubs on Dec 7, 2020 14:52:27 GMT -5
Rick Rude in the attitude era
Oh man. That would have been awesome. Same ol Ravishing Rick but the fans would have LOVED him instead of despised him
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Post by MKSavage on Dec 7, 2020 16:22:18 GMT -5
Rick Rude in the attitude era Oh man. That would have been awesome. Same ol Ravishing Rick but the fans would have LOVED him instead of despised him Agreed, I think Rude could have worked well in the attitude era, he always had an edge to him. I think a feud with him and Austin, the Rock, Triple H, HBK, and Foley all would have been great. |
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Post by jason88cubs on Dec 7, 2020 16:53:52 GMT -5
Rick Rude in the attitude era Oh man. That would have been awesome. Same ol Ravishing Rick but the fans would have LOVED him instead of despised him Agreed, I think Rude could have worked well in the attitude era, he always had an edge to him. I think a feud with him and Austin, the Rock, Triple H, HBK, and Foley all would have been great. Of course Rude left after the Montreal Screwjob, so would he have came back to the WWF? |
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