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Post by Mongo Bears on Jan 4, 2021 10:05:47 GMT -5
I put him right ahead of Headbanger Mosh and just behind B. Brian Blair
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Post by Brad on Jan 4, 2021 11:17:29 GMT -5
Orton is a weird one for me. He can have some great matches, he has a great look, but he also bores me.
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Post by greenjack1992 on Jan 4, 2021 13:56:56 GMT -5
What would make anyone think he's even in the conversation? Has he ever been the top merch seller? Has his name on a card ever been considered influential in terms of ticket sales? Has he ever been chosen over someone else by a company for a media appearance or telly advert? How many young wrestlers have ever cited him as an influence? How many moves did he create? How many absolute barn burner classics has he been in? I just don't see him as a franchise player. He reminds me a lot of someone like a Hardcore Holly or a Billy Gunn (but obviously far more decorated) in the sense that he's a solid, reliable hand, can teach the younger guys a thing or two, and can keep going as long as he likes in his current condition.
But would you rank him as greater than:
Hogan
Austin
Cena
Rock
Angle
Eddie Guerrero
Bruno
Piper
Rey Mysterio Jr.
Superstar BG
Great Muta
Mil Mascaras
El Santo
Blue Demon
Flair
HBK
Bret
Big Daddy
Giant Haystacks
Savage
Undertaker
Sting
Goldberg
Lesnar
I'm just not sure he makes it onto a list of most important wrestlers to the industry of all time. Without the guys I listed above there wouldn't even BE pro-wrestling as we know it today. Orton hasn't done very much for wrestling at all.
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Post by Rated [R] NinJa on Jan 5, 2021 16:17:32 GMT -5
He’s in my Top 10 considering I started watching wrestling in 2001.
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Post by rowdy1971 on Jan 5, 2021 16:39:31 GMT -5
Top 20 for sure.
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Post by Dan on Jan 5, 2021 17:48:00 GMT -5
It's a tricky one. In WWE, you're either in the conversation because you're a top Superstar (e.g John Cena, The Rock, Hulk Hogan), or you're a top natural Wrestler (Shawn Michaels, Ric Flair, Kurt Angle). He doesn't really fall into either of these brackets. In a few years time you could evem make a case for a Roman Reigns to enter the debate, because of his stats and numbers (e.g. even if he's not a great Superstar or natural Wrestler, he will still end up being there due to beating the likes of The Rock, Brock Lesnar, Goldberg, Undertaker, Triple H etc at Wrestlemania's).
With Orton, he'll no doubt be a WWE Hall of Famer, and he has the consistent longevity on his side, but he's never truly been a top top Superstar or a top performer. He may just make the Top 20 though.
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Rocky Balboa
Main Eventer
Down bad for Rhea Ripley
Joined on: Jan 1, 2021 6:00:02 GMT -5
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Post by Rocky Balboa on Jan 6, 2021 17:13:48 GMT -5
Top 20 bordering on top 10 for me. Incredibly smooth in the ring.
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Post by Valbroski on Jan 7, 2021 11:23:39 GMT -5
I’m comfortable saying top 20.
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Post by Yambag Jones on Jan 7, 2021 12:27:59 GMT -5
In WWE cannon, definitely. That company loves them some Orton.
If were actually talking about wrestlers and their legacies (no pun intended), he's an over pushed mid-carder. He's an average (I'd even say poor at times) performer who the company got behind as a top guy.
I could honestly name 100 wrestlers I'd rather watch than Orton for various reasons. He's just never done anything for me. The guy has hit some cool cutters though...
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Post by LK3 on Jan 7, 2021 16:54:55 GMT -5
I think they way those who have worked with Randy speak of him is justification for how good he is. They know way more than we do.
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Mclovin
Superstar
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Post by Mclovin on Jan 7, 2021 17:25:52 GMT -5
Going on WWE alone, this would be my "top 20"...I think the first 15 are subjective in what order you put them in. Some would take Austin over Hogan and many others but Id stand pretty firm with my opinion that these would be the top 15.... 1)Hulk Hogan 2)Steve Austin 3)Bruno Sammartino 4)John Cena 5)Bret Hart 6)The Undertaker 7)Shawn Michaels 8)The Rock 9)Macho Man 10)Andre The Giant 11)Triple H 12)Brock Lesnar 13)Ultimate Warrior 14)Kurt Angle 15)Ric Flair 16) 17) 18) 19) 20) I feel like Edge, Randy Orton, Kane, Daniel Bryan, Chris Jericho can be placed in just about any order in the last 5 spots and it would be reasonable. Hogan over Austin? I think they're 1A and 1B. Rocky should be lower lmao. |
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Mclovin
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Post by Mclovin on Jan 7, 2021 17:28:58 GMT -5
Personally and this is most likely due to the fact I started watching WWE in '06 but I think Orton is top ten or twenty. I know older fans may not care about Orton but he's always had a spot in my top five somewhere or another.
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Mclovin
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Post by Mclovin on Jan 7, 2021 17:36:34 GMT -5
What would make anyone think he's even in the conversation? Has he ever been the top merch seller? Has his name on a card ever been considered influential in terms of ticket sales? Has he ever been chosen over someone else by a company for a media appearance or telly advert? How many young wrestlers have ever cited him as an influence? How many moves did he create? How many absolute barn burner classics has he been in? I just don't see him as a franchise player. He reminds me a lot of someone like a Hardcore Holly or a Billy Gunn (but obviously far more decorated) in the sense that he's a solid, reliable hand, can teach the younger guys a thing or two, and can keep going as long as he likes in his current condition. But would you rank him as greater than: Hogan Austin Cena Rock Angle Eddie Guerrero Bruno Piper Rey Mysterio Jr. Superstar BG Great Muta Mil Mascaras El Santo Blue Demon Flair HBK Bret Big Daddy Giant Haystacks Savage Undertaker Sting Goldberg Lesnar I'm just not sure he makes it onto a list of most important wrestlers to the industry of all time. Without the guys I listed above there wouldn't even BE pro-wrestling as we know it today. Orton hasn't done very much for wrestling at all. Orton has been a big influence on me more than most other wrestlers. He's my 4th or 5th favorite wrestler behind Edge, Taker, and Shawn. I probably like him more than Triple H as a wrestler so Trips would be number five. I can't even really explain what puts Orton in that spot for me. I guess it's cause I grew up anti-Cena. But I think Orton has been one of the biggest names in wrestling for well over a decade at this point. With alot of the wrestlers you listed they came before the 80's, which means I don't really care about them that much. If you want to put a "modern era" category into effect Orton is certainly up there. But to me Orton is a top tier professional wrestler and as long as he's working he's the best thing going. |
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Mclovin
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Post by Mclovin on Jan 7, 2021 17:37:10 GMT -5
I put him right ahead of Headbanger Mosh and just behind B. Brian Blair But here's the real question... Mosh or Thrasher? |
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hitmanhart
Mid-Carder
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Post by hitmanhart on Jan 7, 2021 18:42:58 GMT -5
His longevity is admirable, but his complete mediocrity in the ring makes him questionable for top 50, let alone top 20.
I could easily name 50 better wrestlers.
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Post by Mongo Bears on Jan 7, 2021 19:06:43 GMT -5
I put him right ahead of Headbanger Mosh and just behind B. Brian Blair But here's the real question... Mosh or Thrasher? I honestly don’t know the difference. Mosh was the one who’s name I remembered |
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Mclovin
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Post by Mclovin on Jan 8, 2021 0:47:20 GMT -5
But here's the real question... Mosh or Thrasher? I honestly don’t know the difference. Mosh was the one who’s name I remembered Thrasher is the tall one |
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Post by greenjack1992 on Jan 8, 2021 20:20:12 GMT -5
What would make anyone think he's even in the conversation? Has he ever been the top merch seller? Has his name on a card ever been considered influential in terms of ticket sales? Has he ever been chosen over someone else by a company for a media appearance or telly advert? How many young wrestlers have ever cited him as an influence? How many moves did he create? How many absolute barn burner classics has he been in? I just don't see him as a franchise player. He reminds me a lot of someone like a Hardcore Holly or a Billy Gunn (but obviously far more decorated) in the sense that he's a solid, reliable hand, can teach the younger guys a thing or two, and can keep going as long as he likes in his current condition. But would you rank him as greater than: Hogan Austin Cena Rock Angle Eddie Guerrero Bruno Piper Rey Mysterio Jr. Superstar BG Great Muta Mil Mascaras El Santo Blue Demon Flair HBK Bret Big Daddy Giant Haystacks Savage Undertaker Sting Goldberg Lesnar I'm just not sure he makes it onto a list of most important wrestlers to the industry of all time. Without the guys I listed above there wouldn't even BE pro-wrestling as we know it today. Orton hasn't done very much for wrestling at all. Orton has been a big influence on me more than most other wrestlers. He's my 4th or 5th favorite wrestler behind Edge, Taker, and Shawn. I probably like him more than Triple H as a wrestler so Trips would be number five. I can't even really explain what puts Orton in that spot for me. I guess it's cause I grew up anti-Cena. But I think Orton has been one of the biggest names in wrestling for well over a decade at this point. With alot of the wrestlers you listed they came before the 80's, which means I don't really care about them that much. If you want to put a "modern era" category into effect Orton is certainly up there. But to me Orton is a top tier professional wrestler and as long as he's working he's the best thing going. The question was where he ranks all-time. By what metrics are you measuring it? |
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Post by Nivro™ on Jan 8, 2021 20:28:14 GMT -5
Going on WWE alone, this would be my "top 20"...I think the first 15 are subjective in what order you put them in. Some would take Austin over Hogan and many others but Id stand pretty firm with my opinion that these would be the top 15.... 1)Hulk Hogan 2)Steve Austin 3)Bruno Sammartino 4)John Cena 5)Bret Hart 6)The Undertaker 7)Shawn Michaels 8)The Rock 9)Macho Man 10)Andre The Giant 11)Triple H 12)Brock Lesnar 13)Ultimate Warrior 14)Kurt Angle 15)Ric Flair 16) 17) 18) 19) 20) I feel like Edge, Randy Orton, Kane, Daniel Bryan, Chris Jericho can be placed in just about any order in the last 5 spots and it would be reasonable. Hogan over Austin? I think they're 1A and 1B. Rocky should be lower lmao. I dont believe Hogan/Austin are really nearly as close as people want them to be. Yes I realize that the argument for Austin is the money he drew but first we have to consider inflation, not sure if anyone has done the math but Id be interested to see it. You also have to consider the availability of merchandise. In the 80s if you wanted a Hogan shirt you got it from the magazine or a live event. If you wanted an Austin shirt in the 90s you could literally get one anywhere, including Walmart. There's also the argument of "Without Hogan there would be no WWF" which is factually accurate, without Hogan there is no Austin but it just doesnt include the foundation that he laid in the 80s. Hogan jumped ship to WCW in 1994. Once politics got in the way, Hogans buddies were in and guys like Austin were out. Then because of Hogan you get the nWo hype and the game changed. It made Vince step up and the days of Clowns, trashmen and race car drivers went away...Once WWF made their change, because of Hogan reinventing himself, on comes Austin. |
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Mclovin
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Post by Mclovin on Jan 9, 2021 6:20:59 GMT -5
Orton has been a big influence on me more than most other wrestlers. He's my 4th or 5th favorite wrestler behind Edge, Taker, and Shawn. I probably like him more than Triple H as a wrestler so Trips would be number five. I can't even really explain what puts Orton in that spot for me. I guess it's cause I grew up anti-Cena. But I think Orton has been one of the biggest names in wrestling for well over a decade at this point. With alot of the wrestlers you listed they came before the 80's, which means I don't really care about them that much. If you want to put a "modern era" category into effect Orton is certainly up there. But to me Orton is a top tier professional wrestler and as long as he's working he's the best thing going. The question was where he ranks all-time. By what metrics are you measuring it? Well seeing as it's my thread I'll say kayfabe accomplishments and name recognition. He's a 14 time World Champion, longest reigning Intercontinental Champion of the 2000's (I'm pretty sure), multi-time Tag Team Champion, 2 time Royal Rumble winner and 1 time Money In The Bank winner. He was one of the most popular and well known wrestlers of the 2000's and 2010's. He may not be Hogan, Rock, Flair, Austin, or Cena levels of popular but he's pretty well known. |
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