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Post by cordless2016 on Mar 17, 2021 14:21:06 GMT -5
From a talent perspective, it's probably the best it's ever been. If only they had the creative to use it to its fullest. It’s up there, but I’d still argue the roster from 2002-2004 was arguably stronger talent-wise. Lots of talent on the roster today but everyone is the same bland character which plays into why creatively the WWE is so bad today when compared to past eras.
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Post by cordless2016 on Mar 17, 2021 14:30:37 GMT -5
WWE makes more money now, but from fewer people. It's an unsustainable business model. The product is laughably bad, and there is a lack of star power to the extent that even guys like Undertaker are publicly critical. Vince is forced to rely on 45-50+ year old stars of bygone eras like Edge and Goldberg to try to drive ratings. I would say that there has never been a lower point in WWE history, but that will continue to be the case year on year unless there's a seismic shift in both our culture, and in product quality. WWE/WWF is a case of "it used to be good". And the "used to be" part is getting further and further behind us. Not only are they heavily relying on 45-55 year old performers, but they’re now pulling “stars” from the RA and PG eras. Austin, Rock, Foley, Kane, and now even Taker have hung up their boots. Vince can’t use stars from the Attitude Era as a crutch any longer, but rather than focus on building who he has now, he’s just moved on the the next eras. Problem is the RA and PG eras don’t have the same nostalgia effect as the Attiude Era does, and anyone trying to claim Edge has the same drawing power as Austin, Rock, or Taker are just kidding themselves. Edge was a midcarder during the hottest period in wrestling so most fans who were watching then likely have no clue he was a main eventer 5 years later. And when Edge can’t come back for these nostalgia acts any longer, who is Vince going to rely on as a crutch next? Dolph? Miz? Kofi? I shudder the days when that happens.
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Post by LA Times on Mar 17, 2021 14:36:34 GMT -5
No, the TV product is piss poor and the ratings are getting lower and lower. The billion dollar TV contracts are whats keeping things afloat right now.
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Warriah'
Main Eventer
Joined on: Dec 22, 2019 19:46:02 GMT -5
Posts: 3,231
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Post by Warriah' on Mar 17, 2021 14:52:22 GMT -5
WWE makes more money now, but from fewer people. It's an unsustainable business model. The product is laughably bad, and there is a lack of star power to the extent that even guys like Undertaker are publicly critical. Vince is forced to rely on 45-50+ year old stars of bygone eras like Edge and Goldberg to try to drive ratings. I would say that there has never been a lower point in WWE history, but that will continue to be the case year on year unless there's a seismic shift in both our culture, and in product quality. WWE/WWF is a case of "it used to be good". And the "used to be" part is getting further and further behind us. Not only are they heavily relying on 45-55 year old performers, but they’re now pulling “stars” from the RA and PG eras. Austin, Rock, Foley, Kane, and now even Taker have hung up their boots. Vince can’t use stars from the Attitude Era as a crutch any longer, but rather than focus on building who he has now, he’s just moved on the the next eras. Problem is the RA and PG eras don’t have the same nostalgia effect as the Attiude Era does, and anyone trying to claim Edge has the same drawing power as Austin, Rock, or Taker are just kidding themselves. Edge was a midcarder during the hottest period in wrestling so most fans who were watching then likely have no clue he was a main eventer 5 years later. And when Edge can’t come back for these nostalgia acts any longer, who is Vince going to rely on as a crutch next? Dolph? Miz? Kofi? I shudder the days when that happens. To that point, part of the reason I was tuning out during the RA era was because guys like Edge, Mysterio and JBL being the top stars did nothing for me even back then.
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Warriah'
Main Eventer
Joined on: Dec 22, 2019 19:46:02 GMT -5
Posts: 3,231
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Post by Warriah' on Mar 17, 2021 14:54:10 GMT -5
From a talent perspective, it's probably the best it's ever been. If only they had the creative to use it to its fullest. Depends how you define 'talent'. Athletic flips? Maybe. Workrate/storytellers/wrestlers/psychology/attractions? Again, the absolute worst.
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Thunder Chunky
Main Eventer
Joined on: Aug 1, 2010 21:57:30 GMT -5
Posts: 4,519
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Post by Thunder Chunky on Mar 17, 2021 15:16:56 GMT -5
From a talent perspective, it's probably the best it's ever been. If only they had the creative to use it to its fullest. Depends how you define 'talent'. Athletic flips? Maybe. Workrate/storytellers/wrestlers/psychology/attractions? Again, the absolute worst. This. People keep saying that this is the best roster ever. But what are they the best at?
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Post by Yambag Jones on Mar 17, 2021 16:13:41 GMT -5
Depends how you define 'talent'. Athletic flips? Maybe. Workrate/storytellers/wrestlers/psychology/attractions? Again, the absolute worst. This. People keep saying that this is the best roster ever. But what are they the best at? They have the world's best wrestling roster used for "sports entertaining".
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Post by K5 on Mar 17, 2021 16:25:02 GMT -5
From a talent perspective, it's probably the best it's ever been. If only they had the creative to use it to its fullest. Depends how you define 'talent'. Athletic flips? Maybe. Workrate/storytellers/wrestlers/psychology/attractions? Again, the absolute worst. there are, of course, exceptions. there's a reason guys like AJ get put over by EVERYBODY. dude is as good a worker as they come
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Warriah'
Main Eventer
Joined on: Dec 22, 2019 19:46:02 GMT -5
Posts: 3,231
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Post by Warriah' on Mar 17, 2021 16:46:28 GMT -5
Depends how you define 'talent'. Athletic flips? Maybe. Workrate/storytellers/wrestlers/psychology/attractions? Again, the absolute worst. there are, of course, exceptions. there's a reason guys like AJ get put over by EVERYBODY. dude is as good a worker as they come AJ is a great worker for sure. But he's a diamond in the rough.
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Post by Yambag Jones on Mar 17, 2021 17:02:17 GMT -5
there are, of course, exceptions. there's a reason guys like AJ get put over by EVERYBODY. dude is as good a worker as they come AJ is a great worker for sure. But he's a diamond in the rough. wut?
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Mar 17, 2021 17:17:21 GMT -5
Currently WWE and AEW have the best rosters ever. The main issue with todays era of wrestling is that fans are never happy. I don't mean to sound negative but back in the 90's people just sat back and enjoyed the product without relaying on dirtsheets and nitpicking at every move.
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Mar 17, 2021 17:35:21 GMT -5
WWE makes more money now, but from fewer people. It's an unsustainable business model. The product is laughably bad, and there is a lack of star power to the extent that even guys like Undertaker are publicly critical. Vince is forced to rely on 45-50+ year old stars of bygone eras like Edge and Goldberg to try to drive ratings. I would say that there has never been a lower point in WWE history, but that will continue to be the case year on year unless there's a seismic shift in both our culture, and in product quality. WWE/WWF is a case of "it used to be good". And the "used to be" part is getting further and further behind us. Not only are they heavily relying on 45-55 year old performers, but they’re now pulling “stars” from the RA and PG eras. Austin, Rock, Foley, Kane, and now even Taker have hung up their boots. Vince can’t use stars from the Attitude Era as a crutch any longer, but rather than focus on building who he has now, he’s just moved on the the next eras. Problem is the RA and PG eras don’t have the same nostalgia effect as the Attiude Era does, and anyone trying to claim Edge has the same drawing power as Austin, Rock, or Taker are just kidding themselves. Edge was a midcarder during the hottest period in wrestling so most fans who were watching then likely have no clue he was a main eventer 5 years later. And when Edge can’t come back for these nostalgia acts any longer, who is Vince going to rely on as a crutch next? Dolph? Miz? Kofi? I shudder the days when that happens. Edge's recent return has proved that he's not a huge draw. Most of Edge's main event run he was the jerk heel who acted as the antagonist against the faces. I'm not dissing Edge, but people payed to see the likes of Cena and Taker kick his ass because he was the bad guy.
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Post by hitmancmedge on Mar 17, 2021 17:41:17 GMT -5
The average WWE fan is 52 years old, the average AEW fan is 47 years old. Wrestling fans today were kids in the golden era, teens/young adults in the attitude era and are old now. Wrestling isn’t creating new fans.
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Post by Yambag Jones on Mar 17, 2021 17:50:49 GMT -5
The average WWE fan is 52 years old, the average AEW fan is 47 years old. Wrestling fans today were kids in the golden era, teens/young adults in the attitude era and are old now. Wrestling isn’t creating new fans. Definitely not at the pace of past eras, but there are newer fans. Look at demos like 18-34 & 12-34. They're there. We won't know what those numbers look like until years from now.
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Post by GreyHaze:Big Bad Booty Daddy on Mar 17, 2021 17:50:50 GMT -5
Imo no. It says something when you scroll on YouTube to find the highlights of the main event. I feel like the product is unwatchable. They’ve got a good roster of talent, but they don’t do anything with them. It feels like everyone who isn’t a main eventer is a glorified jobber and is generic. They need to put more creativity into their stages, segments and most importantly character development. I believe I’m at the age where my favorites are gone.
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Post by Next Manufactured’s Sweater on Mar 17, 2021 18:21:28 GMT -5
The average WWE fan is 52 years old, the average AEW fan is 47 years old. Nope. Those are the average age of the Nielsen TV viewers of those shows, and that is far from the only way to watch them, let alone the only way to be a fan of them. Young people are not beholden to TV schedules like it’s 1995. WWE and AEW upload all of the highlights to YouTube not long after the shows air. Twitter, Facebook, Reddit all have clips of pretty much the entire shows. If declining TV ratings meant no new fans were being created, the majority of this board wouldn’t have become fans. Ratings have been trending downwards since before the invasion in 2001. And yet we have many members who are in their teens to mid twenties. They became wrestling fans in 2002, in 2006, in 2010, possibly even some in 2020. And all of the years in between. At the same time that people on here are crying that wrestling is dead because The Miz won the title or Goldberg beat an internet darling, there are kids who have just gotten into it that are loving it. Same as when people on here were crying that wrestling was dead because Undertaker BERRIED the young guy John Cena in 2003, or that wrestling was dead because John Cena BERRIED Nexus in 2010, or that wrestling was dead because Roman Reigns didn’t lose every match in 2015. All of those things were creating and exciting new fans. Even on TV ratings alone, while much lower than they were years ago, the reason WWE makes billions from TV deals is because “the product” (insider term) is still at or near the top of the ratings tables every Monday and Friday night. Raw this week had the three top hours in all of cable TV on Monday night. And AEW, while losing half its audience over the last year and a half, is still pulling decent numbers for TNT every week and getting their wrestlers made as children’s toys stocked at Walmart. And according to their PR guy, their last PPV did the most buys of any non-WWE wrestling PPV since 1999. Wrestling wouldn’t be producing so many toys if kids weren’t buying them. Rumours of modern wrestling’s demise have been greatly exaggerated.
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Post by cordless2016 on Mar 17, 2021 19:16:03 GMT -5
Not only are they heavily relying on 45-55 year old performers, but they’re now pulling “stars” from the RA and PG eras. Austin, Rock, Foley, Kane, and now even Taker have hung up their boots. Vince can’t use stars from the Attitude Era as a crutch any longer, but rather than focus on building who he has now, he’s just moved on the the next eras. Problem is the RA and PG eras don’t have the same nostalgia effect as the Attiude Era does, and anyone trying to claim Edge has the same drawing power as Austin, Rock, or Taker are just kidding themselves. Edge was a midcarder during the hottest period in wrestling so most fans who were watching then likely have no clue he was a main eventer 5 years later. And when Edge can’t come back for these nostalgia acts any longer, who is Vince going to rely on as a crutch next? Dolph? Miz? Kofi? I shudder the days when that happens. Edge's recent return has proved that he's not a huge draw. Most of Edge's main event run he was the jerk heel who acted as the antagonist against the faces. I'm not dissing Edge, but people payed to see the likes of Cena and Taker kick his ass because he was the bad guy. Edge falls into the Triple H category as, like you said, someone who the fans paid to see be beaten, and not necessarily just because of them. Both were top stars of their respective eras, but neither was a big draw on their own and neither reached the level of Hogan, Austin, Rock, or heck, even Cena.
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Post by Rated [R] NinJa on Mar 17, 2021 20:31:16 GMT -5
Currently WWE and AEW have the best rosters ever. The main issue with todays era of wrestling is that fans are never happy. I don't mean to sound negative but back in the 90's people just sat back and enjoyed the product without relaying on dirtsheets and nitpicking at every move. Facts!
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Post by Kill Em' All on Mar 17, 2021 22:18:59 GMT -5
It's semi good time to be a fan. Longterm booking is dead so that sucks for me. But it seems we have been blessed with so many returns and so much talent.
To the outside no; wrestling is not hip or cool. I think if the product actually took on more adult stories (I AM NOT talking about trash/crash TV). Just stronger stories; and something that maybe reflects our current world (not political) just stories that relate to current society it MAY help.
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