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Post by BoJack Hogan on May 21, 2021 10:15:53 GMT -5
I don’t know if it’s true, but IF it is, then this should’ve happened long ago. I don’t know what WWE’s investigation consisted of, but in a case like this it should’ve been comprehensive. If it wasn’t, that’s on them.
That said, this is in no way part of cancel culture. Cancel culture is very real, but lumping a case like this in with cancel culture is what gets those nimrods to say ‘it’s not cancel culture, it’s accountability’ when someone like Chris Harrison of the Bachelor/Bachelorette universe are immediately forced to resign when they share an opinion that goes against the toxic wokeness that’s pervasive at this time (an opinion with which I happened to agree 100%).
This is not that. IF the allegations are true, this is a potential sexual predator trying to get away with being a creeper and WWE trying to wait it out in hopes that they can continue making money with the guy. IF the allegations are true, this is only a step or two below the Benoit situation, and should be treated similarly. There should be zero tolerance for creeping on teens and sending unsolicited dong pics. This is a situation where the offending individual should be wiped.
If the allegations are false, then Patrick Clark needs to sue everyone in sight, because he was done very dirty. I don’t know what I think. I’m leaning towards guilty, but I’m not confident enough to completely vilify him. This is too severe of an allegation for me to pass judgment without more evidence beyond hearsay (and no, I don’t want to see the alleged dong photos in a side by side comparison with the Velveteen Dong, thank you).
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Post by Chip on May 21, 2021 10:37:50 GMT -5
I dont keep track, nor cared to of his personal life but was there ever any actual proof of what he was accused of? Not just random screen shots that you could or couldn't say without a doubt was from him or not.....or was this simply a case of the "cancel culture" where you're guilty until proven innocent? as is with most things now, accused means guilty until proven guilty. i dont believe there was any actual proof of the accusations, i also remember reading that when one of these things was happening, he (Dream) was 19 and his accuser was 16. not sure what else there was but considering nothing has gone to trial or really come out in a year about it, its hard to determine the reality and i believe something came out recently that the people accusing him were part of a legit racist facebook group. there's a TON of gray area on his case and all conclusions are already made by everyone on the internet regardless of evidence. the guy could be proven innocent in court and people will still call him a pedo. most wrestling fans immediately react to the first thing they've read about someone and THAT becomes the narrative of that person no matter what. |
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Post by Chip on May 21, 2021 10:46:14 GMT -5
i will say, they havent used the guy on TV in a long time. there might have been some other issues going on behind the scenes we aren't aware of. his contract might have come up and he chose not to re-sign. we dont actually know why he was released, but something caused them to do it the day AFTER they released a few people all at once.
whatever the story...
i truly hope he isn't what he is being accused of. if he has other problems i hope he gets help and gets his life on track
up until recent history, the guy entertained the hell out of me. he was damn talented in the ring and had a great gimmick. shame to see his WWE career end this way.
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Post by J'Dinkalage Morgoone on May 21, 2021 10:57:57 GMT -5
I don’t know if it’s true, but IF it is, then this should’ve happened long ago. I don’t know what WWE’s investigation consisted of, but in a case like this it should’ve been comprehensive. If it wasn’t, that’s on them. That said, this is in no way part of cancel culture. Cancel culture is very real, but lumping a case like this in with cancel culture is what gets those nimrods to say ‘it’s not cancel culture, it’s accountability’ when someone like Chris Harrison of the Bachelor/Bachelorette universe are immediately forced to resign when they share an opinion that goes against the toxic wokeness that’s pervasive at this time (an opinion with which I happened to agree 100%). This is not that. IF the allegations are true, this is a potential sexual predator trying to get away with being a creeper and WWE trying to wait it out in hopes that they can continue making money with the guy. IF the allegations are true, this is only a step or two below the Benoit situation, and should be treated similarly. There should be zero tolerance for creeping on teens and sending unsolicited dong pics. This is a situation where the offending individual should be wiped. If the allegations are false, then Patrick Clark needs to sue everyone in sight, because he was done very dirty. I don’t know what I think. I’m leaning towards guilty, but I’m not confident enough to completely vilify him. This is too severe of an allegation for me to pass judgment without more evidence beyond hearsay (and no, I don’t want to see the alleged dong photos in a side by side comparison with the Velveteen Dong, thank you). accused and guilty until proven innocent is indeed cancel culture. The whole #metoo movement is exactly what happened to him since none of it can be proven true. All we have is gossip about him. Like i was bullied for an entire weekend at a house show /comic con event by colt cabanna. I have no proof other than friends eyewitnesses so ive never talked about it. We were working a show setting up merch, he tripped me and then tried to push boxes full of expensive merch out of my hands for literally no reason. at intermission i asked for an autograph and he tried to charge me double (not as a joke), literally pointed me out and attacked for me for two days at an event. It was super weird and ive never had that happen before with any talent weve worked it. Ive worked with hundreds of guys and this was the first and only time something like this has ever happened. He even mentioned how trash of a town it was on his podcast after it happened. Im friends with the local guys and they even said he was weird, super egotistical. Even tried to grab one of the guys balls. Super weird, weve never had colt back. I dont know if he thought he knew me or if he thought I was a mark. I was literally there working. Bust all I have is accusations, i cant prove anything, so ive never mentioned it. Also the same weekend he was harrasing anyone who wanted more than 1 item signed, he said to one guy "are you  ing putting this on ebay", i remember the guy going "yeah, for a whole 5$" as a sarcastic remark...because colts stuff isnt worth much. Same weekend we had joey ryan, who was super cool with everyone. so who knows? lol |
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Post by Weemanv1 on May 21, 2021 11:57:37 GMT -5
I don’t know if it’s true, but IF it is, then this should’ve happened long ago. I don’t know what WWE’s investigation consisted of, but in a case like this it should’ve been comprehensive. If it wasn’t, that’s on them. That said, this is in no way part of cancel culture. Cancel culture is very real, but lumping a case like this in with cancel culture is what gets those nimrods to say ‘it’s not cancel culture, it’s accountability’ when someone like Chris Harrison of the Bachelor/Bachelorette universe are immediately forced to resign when they share an opinion that goes against the toxic wokeness that’s pervasive at this time (an opinion with which I happened to agree 100%). This is not that. IF the allegations are true, this is a potential sexual predator trying to get away with being a creeper and WWE trying to wait it out in hopes that they can continue making money with the guy. IF the allegations are true, this is only a step or two below the Benoit situation, and should be treated similarly. There should be zero tolerance for creeping on teens and sending unsolicited dong pics. This is a situation where the offending individual should be wiped. If the allegations are false, then Patrick Clark needs to sue everyone in sight, because he was done very dirty. I don’t know what I think. I’m leaning towards guilty, but I’m not confident enough to completely vilify him. This is too severe of an allegation for me to pass judgment without more evidence beyond hearsay (and no, I don’t want to see the alleged dong photos in a side by side comparison with the Velveteen Dong, thank you). accused and guilty until proven innocent is indeed cancel culture. He's currently a free man and was never arrested or put on trial so it's never been guilty until proven innocent for him. |
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Post by CM Tusk on May 21, 2021 12:06:24 GMT -5
It’s your own discretion to decide if you believe he is guilty. There is evidence against him but not enough to throw the book at him. “Innocent till proven guilty” does’t always work when there are plenty of cases that don’t have enough evidence to convict people who have most definitely done the crime. You all sleep through the OJ trial? OJ did it. If you think otherwise, you’re obviously an idiot. But the system found him not guilty. Of course not everyone ever accused is guilty.
At the same time it’s very telling that some people rush to claim that every single victim of last years #speakingout is lying. They act like sexual assault can’t happen unless there are witnesses and hardcore evidence. Which in most cases isn’t how sexual assault works. That’s part of the reason why someone sexually assaults someone, because they are in a situation where it can’t be proven and they can get away with it. Some people still think people like Joey Ryan and Dave Crist are innocent despite the heavy amount of accusations against them.
Again, anyone rushing to say “Cancel culture!!!” here is just wrong. If it were cancel culture, everyone with accusations against them in the company would be gone here. Riddle is part of a big storyline on RAW. Theory is part of a big stable on NXT. Devlin just had a major cruiserweight championship ladder match.
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Post by BoJack Hogan on May 21, 2021 13:59:49 GMT -5
He's currently a free man and was never arrested or put on trial so it's never been guilty until proven innocent for him. cancel culture does not care about law. The accusations are "law" for cancel culture. you see half the people automatically calling for him to be fired or even death because of these things without any proof, just because someone accused him. THAT is cancel culture. They canceled him. Now if he is ever tried and found guilty, which i doubt, then He had the right to be fired and serve time/whatever. Let me begin by saying that I’m not saying that you’re wrong. I actually agree with part of what you said. The dogs came out immediately calling for his head. I suppose he was partially canceled, as judgment was passed the very second the allegations arose. However, cancel culture is so nebulously defined as a concept that it’s still open to interpretation. In my opinion this would’ve been cancel culture if he’d been fired immediately upon the allegations arising, and blackballed. Enzo was basically cancel cultured by WWE (even though they were likely looking for an excuse by then). Dream kept his job for almost a year while WWE waited for it to blow over. That never happened, so he was released at an opportune time - during a rash of NXT releases. Although I do believe the impetus was the allegations, WWE clearly thought there was justification to stand by him. They may still wait for things to blow over and bring him back if nothing is proven, I don’t know. That’s just my opinion. In the end I still can’t say if he was treated fairly or unfairly...maybe a little of both. |
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Post by Weemanv1 on May 21, 2021 18:23:58 GMT -5
He's currently a free man and was never arrested or put on trial so it's never been guilty until proven innocent for him. cancel culture does not care about law. The accusations are "law" for cancel culture. you see half the people automatically calling for him to be fired or even death because of these things without any proof, just because someone accused him. THAT is cancel culture. They canceled him. Now if he is ever tried and found guilty, which i doubt, then He had the right to be fired and serve time/whatever. I still see him all over my news feeds and he'll find work unless he's arrested. Being cancelled on social media turns out to mean literally nothing. Hulk Hogan was "cancelled" and he hosted Wrestlemania. Besides, how do we know this is why he was fired? Seems silly to assume that and turn around to complain about people assuming these allegations were true. |
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The Real Chillary
Main Eventer
Chillary since day one ish
Joined on: Aug 23, 2016 15:32:38 GMT -5
Posts: 1,182
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Post by The Real Chillary on May 21, 2021 18:35:19 GMT -5
cancel culture does not care about law. The accusations are "law" for cancel culture. you see half the people automatically calling for him to be fired or even death because of these things without any proof, just because someone accused him. THAT is cancel culture. They canceled him. Now if he is ever tried and found guilty, which i doubt, then He had the right to be fired and serve time/whatever. Hulk Hogan was "cancelled" and he hosted Wrestlemania. And what reaction did he get? The days of WWE wheeling out people who have done real life shady crap are over. The fans aren't going to put up with it. |
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Post by J'Dinkalage Morgoone on May 21, 2021 18:42:26 GMT -5
Hulk Hogan was "cancelled" and he hosted Wrestlemania. And what reaction did he get? The days of WWE wheeling out people who have done real life shady crap are over. The fans aren't going to put up with it. because no one ever has ever said stuff they regret. on secretly taped audio...biggest load of bs ever. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2021 18:59:49 GMT -5
cancel culture does not care about law. The accusations are "law" for cancel culture. you see half the people automatically calling for him to be fired or even death because of these things without any proof, just because someone accused him. THAT is cancel culture. They canceled him. Now if he is ever tried and found guilty, which i doubt, then He had the right to be fired and serve time/whatever. I still see him all over my news feeds and he'll find work unless he's arrested. Being cancelled on social media turns out to mean literally nothing. Hulk Hogan was "cancelled" and he hosted Wrestlemania. Besides, how do we know this is why he was fired? Seems silly to assume that and turn around to complain about people assuming these allegations were true. Being reported that he was not fired for this but mounting behavior issues. |
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Post by Weemanv1 on May 21, 2021 21:55:42 GMT -5
I still see him all over my news feeds and he'll find work unless he's arrested. Being cancelled on social media turns out to mean literally nothing. Hulk Hogan was "cancelled" and he hosted Wrestlemania. Besides, how do we know this is why he was fired? Seems silly to assume that and turn around to complain about people assuming these allegations were true. Being reported that he was not fired for this but mounting behavior issues. That's what I've been reading too. Looking more and more like he was being a prick which is more than reasonable excuse to let someone go. Makes a lot of the crying over cancel culture look even sillier too  |
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Post by Weemanv1 on May 21, 2021 21:57:13 GMT -5
Hulk Hogan was "cancelled" and he hosted Wrestlemania. And what reaction did he get? The days of WWE wheeling out people who have done real life shady crap are over. The fans aren't going to put up with it. WWE also doesn't care if they can make a quick buck off of it. Same with anyone. I'm not saying it's right because I don't believe it is, but people who are so-called cancelled never really are if they can still make money for people. |
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Post by FLUX '97 on May 21, 2021 23:30:15 GMT -5
And what reaction did he get? The days of WWE wheeling out people who have done real life shady crap are over. The fans aren't going to put up with it. because no one ever has ever said stuff they regret. on secretly taped audio...biggest load of bs ever. Wonder which part he regrets the most? "I’m a racist to a point, y’know, ing n-words!" or "If we’re gonna with n-words, let’s get a rich one!" Terry's a racist piece of garbage, him. |
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The Real Chillary
Main Eventer
Chillary since day one ish
Joined on: Aug 23, 2016 15:32:38 GMT -5
Posts: 1,182
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Post by The Real Chillary on May 22, 2021 3:28:50 GMT -5
I say this a lot, but it's true - with wrestling, you definitely have to separate the art from the artist A LOT. Hulk Hogan (the character) is awesome. Terry Bollea (the portrayer) is not. Chris Benoit (the character) is awesome. Chris Benoit (the portrayer) is not. Velveteen Dream (the character) is awesome. Patrick Clark (the portrayer) is not. If you find yourself unable to look at wrestling like that - then there are very few wrestlers that any of us would actually like. And John Wayne Gacy was a monster, doesn't mean I'll excuse that when booking Pogo the Clown for a kids party. I'm not attacking anyone when I say they're entitled to excuse racism, murder and allegedly being a pedophile when it comes to entertainers. But for me personally, it taints the image I have of the character. Can I watch old Hogan footage and enjoy it? Yes. But I can't enjoy anything new with him, because I feel like that would be trying to ignore the hate filled comments. You can't uncork that bottle, racism is racism. Chris Benoit killed his son. There is no seperating the man from his character. I can watch old Benoit footage because it was before it happened, but it's in the back of my mind. If he were still alive and continued to wrestle, I wouldn't want to see him on screen ever. Velveteen Dream is someone I was a huge fan of. Someone I have met at a signing. He's very current and very real. To think he's allegedly a child predator (I'm just going to address it, I've seen and heard enough evidence to personally believe there's no smoke without a fire) it saddens me and I don't want to think about or see that performer again. I'm never going to watch the movie Clownhouse, because of what the director did. The same guy that went on to director the Jeepers Creepers movies. Should I be able to enjoy watching those movies knowing a convicted pedophile worked on them? Or should I seperate the art from the artist? |
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Post by FLUX '97 on May 22, 2021 3:51:02 GMT -5
I say this a lot, but it's true - with wrestling, you definitely have to separate the art from the artist A LOT.Hulk Hogan (the character) is awesome. Terry Bollea (the portrayer) is not. Chris Benoit (the character) is awesome. Chris Benoit (the portrayer) is not. Velveteen Dream (the character) is awesome. Patrick Clark (the portrayer) is not. If you find yourself unable to look at wrestling like that - then there are very few wrestlers that any of us would actually like. You really don't. Just off the top of my head given their recent issues: Hulk Hogan is a racist. him. Chris Benoit is a murderer. him. Velveteen Dream is a groomer and child predator. him. Drake Younger/Wuertz is a QAnon conspiracy theorist and racist. him. Teddy Hart nearly beat and strangled his girlfriend to death. him. Alberto Del Rio beat Paige and got her hooked on drugs AND raped another woman. him. Joey Ryan sexually assaulted half a dozen women. him. David Starr raped multiple women. him. Marty Scurll, consensual or not, had sex with a child. him. Fabulous Moolah pimped out her trainees. her. It goes on and on in this business. There's a lot of truly awful people, some on this list, some not who don't deserve to spend another day making a dime in this industry. I don't intend on going back and watching any of those people ever wrestle/cut a promo/etc. again because of the severity of their actions. You can arguably make excuses to defend the drug addicts and people who commit non-violent offenses, especially if those people repay their debts to society in full. But you can't make excuses for or defend blatant racism, murder, pedophilia or sexual assault. |
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Post by Yambag Jones on May 22, 2021 9:34:36 GMT -5
I'm shocked this thread hasn't been locked and scrubbed. Great job being civil and non-offensive, wfigs. Proud of you.
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Post by kennyw86v2 on May 22, 2021 9:50:29 GMT -5
Good. Not even because of accusations. Just glad that crap gimmick snoozefest is gone.
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Post by kennyw86v2 on May 22, 2021 9:52:21 GMT -5
I say this a lot, but it's true - with wrestling, you definitely have to separate the art from the artist A LOT.Hulk Hogan (the character) is awesome. Terry Bollea (the portrayer) is not. Chris Benoit (the character) is awesome. Chris Benoit (the portrayer) is not. Velveteen Dream (the character) is awesome. Patrick Clark (the portrayer) is not. If you find yourself unable to look at wrestling like that - then there are very few wrestlers that any of us would actually like. You really don't. Just off the top of my head given their recent issues: Hulk Hogan is a racist. him. Chris Benoit is a murderer. him. Velveteen Dream is a groomer and child predator. him. Drake Younger/Wuertz is a QAnon conspiracy theorist and racist. him. Teddy Hart nearly beat and strangled his girlfriend to death. him. Alberto Del Rio beat Paige and got her hooked on drugs AND raped another woman. him. Joey Ryan sexually assaulted half a dozen women. him. David Starr raped multiple women. him. Marty Scurll, consensual or not, had sex with a child. him. Fabulous Moolah pimped out her trainees. her. It goes on and on in this business. There's a lot of truly awful people, some on this list, some not who don't deserve to spend another day making a dime in this industry. I don't intend on going back and watching any of those people ever wrestle/cut a promo/etc. again because of the severity of their actions. You can arguably make excuses to defend the drug addicts and people who commit non-violent offenses, especially if those people repay their debts to society in full. But you can't make excuses for or defend blatant racism, murder, pedophilia or sexual assault. You kinda made his point. You refused to separate the character from the human. |
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Post by FLUX '97 on May 22, 2021 10:16:06 GMT -5
You really don't. Just off the top of my head given their recent issues: Hulk Hogan is a racist. him. Chris Benoit is a murderer. him. Velveteen Dream is a groomer and child predator. him. Drake Younger/Wuertz is a QAnon conspiracy theorist and racist. him. Teddy Hart nearly beat and strangled his girlfriend to death. him. Alberto Del Rio beat Paige and got her hooked on drugs AND raped another woman. him. Joey Ryan sexually assaulted half a dozen women. him. David Starr raped multiple women. him. Marty Scurll, consensual or not, had sex with a child. him. Fabulous Moolah pimped out her trainees. her. It goes on and on in this business. There's a lot of truly awful people, some on this list, some not who don't deserve to spend another day making a dime in this industry. I don't intend on going back and watching any of those people ever wrestle/cut a promo/etc. again because of the severity of their actions. You can arguably make excuses to defend the drug addicts and people who commit non-violent offenses, especially if those people repay their debts to society in full. But you can't make excuses for or defend blatant racism, murder, pedophilia or sexual assault. You kinda made his point. You refused to separate the character from the human. Why should I? Yes, Chris Benoit the character didn't murder two people. But at the end of the day, Chris Benoit the person is a murderer. Therefore, to me, neither Chris Benoit the character nor Chris Benoit the person should be celebrated. And for me, that same logic goes for everyone else I mentioned in that group and others I left out. Just because Hulk Hogan was a mainstream draw or just because Velveteen Dream had a nice Diving Elbow Drop doesn't mean I have to celebrate their characters even though they're garbage human beings. |
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