TWJT
Superstar
Joined on: Aug 7, 2021 19:07:25 GMT -5
Posts: 538
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Post by TWJT on Jan 24, 2022 15:29:27 GMT -5
An issue with all forms of pro wrestling since the beginning of time, or at least since finishers were developed into what they are now.
Why do people go for a dozen pins throughout a match, when you almost always can only win once you’ve connected with a finisher?
Every so often an announcer will mention that pin attempts are also gone for to wear an opponent down, even when the person going for a pin has no chance of winning. “Kicking out takes energy!” they say. But to me, that’s not a good enough reason. Most of the time the announcers act like the person going for a pin really thinks he/she can win, and he/she is almost always shocked when a kickout occurs.
Anyone find this odd ritual in professional wrestling, well…odd? Whatever the percentage of matches to end with a non-finisher is, it’s very low. Sometimes it does take multiple finishers, sure, but it almost always takes at least one.
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Post by jershocenationyes on Jan 24, 2022 16:21:50 GMT -5
Great observation and I believe they want to kinda make it real and by doing multiple pins helps that strategy.
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Post by greenjack1992 on Jan 24, 2022 17:25:02 GMT -5
As Danielson said when he was recently asked why he kept winning matches in AEW with different moves that the idea of the signature or "finishing" move is a really recent phenomenon and I agree. Prior to the 1980s no one had a finisher, you just won matches with whatever made sense in the context of the story. Huge stars had signature moves and then everyone started adding them to their gimmick.
I'm quite happy for finishing moves to go away forever. I don't think they add anything.
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Post by tylerbreezee on Jan 24, 2022 17:30:06 GMT -5
They’ve had matches won with random moves before and people usually complain
Pretty sure Charlotte has won with a big boot before, Alexa has won with a right hand similar to Judas effect
It’s all about the crowd reaction and hitting that big move amps the crowd up and makes it more exciting as opposed to hitting a suplex and the match has anti-climatic ending
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Post by GreyHaze:Big Bad Booty Daddy on Jan 24, 2022 22:04:20 GMT -5
Honestly, I’d prefer if wrestlers didn’t win all the time with finishers. As long as the ending is climatic. What I do hate and it’s why I only watch the main event highlights now is roll up pins. It happens every single week and they overuse it when they don’t want to give someone a legit loss.
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kinnikuman
Main Eventer
Joined on: Feb 6, 2020 21:42:25 GMT -5
Posts: 4,674
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Post by kinnikuman on Jan 25, 2022 11:04:13 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm fine with pin attempts. Other than at the start of a match when we, the viewer, knows the match isn't going to end there. Having to use a "finisher" in order to get the pin is dumb. And NAMING that finisher might be my biggest grip with wrestling. And using the same finisher when you could use many ... JFC.
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TWJT
Superstar
Joined on: Aug 7, 2021 19:07:25 GMT -5
Posts: 538
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Post by TWJT on Jan 25, 2022 11:09:01 GMT -5
Also, if they wanted it to seem real, why don't guys open themselves up to being able to do every move? Like, obviously Big Show won't be doing a 450. But like, in MMA I think most guys do all strikes and submissions (I know there are clips of like Ronda Rousey practicing/focusing on just arm bars, but you get what I mean). If it were legitimate, wouldn't every performer try to do as many moves as possible?
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Post by jershocenationyes on Jan 25, 2022 12:34:58 GMT -5
Also, if they wanted it to seem real, why don't guys open themselves up to being able to do every move? Like, obviously Big Show won't be doing a 450. But like, in MMA I think most guys do all strikes and submissions (I know there are clips of like Ronda Rousey practicing/focusing on just arm bars, but you get what I mean). If it were legitimate, wouldn't every performer try to do as many moves as possible? I see your point and my answer is you’d think so right but it doesn’t always happen. |
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Post by k5 on Jan 25, 2022 13:11:57 GMT -5
I agree that pins after moves when we all know that the wrestler pinned will kick out of is redundant and takes away from the potential of the match and overall sport presentation
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shenmue
Main Eventer
Joined on: Oct 30, 2007 10:12:45 GMT -5
Posts: 2,719
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Post by shenmue on Jan 25, 2022 17:33:52 GMT -5
The Roll up is the most deadly finisher in pro wrestling, no need for a finisher that actually knocks anyone out anymore.
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Post by TKO Propagandist on Jan 26, 2022 1:50:55 GMT -5
The Roll up is the most deadly finisher in pro wrestling, no need for a finisher that actually knocks anyone out anymore. In Japan it was often said that some wrestlers preffered to lose by submission than get hit with a finish. As there was more pride in being outsmarted by a submission hold than taking a move & being out for 3 seconds plus. |
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Post by Next Man’s Knowing Rock on Jan 26, 2022 22:37:23 GMT -5
They’ve had matches won with random moves before and people usually complain Pretty sure Charlotte has won with a big boot before, Alexa has won with a right hand similar to Judas effect It’s all about the crowd reaction and hitting that big move amps the crowd up and makes it more exciting as opposed to hitting a suplex and the match has anti-climatic ending Absolutely. Whenever a match ends by a small package, roll-up, reversing a submission into a pinning hold etc, people complain. A match ending without a finisher can feel flat, like a Mortal Kombat fight ending without a fatality. And if a wrestler has a strong finisher, that’s a big part of what people want to see when watching. If Randy Orton stopped using the RKO, it’d be like going to see a band and they don’t play their biggest hit. That audience familiarity with the move lets you build stories around it, the viewer knows the move, knows it can end a match, can recognise the set up, understand counters to it etc. |
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celflessness
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Feb 5, 2020 7:30:40 GMT -5
Posts: 335
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Post by celflessness on Jan 28, 2022 13:45:58 GMT -5
The goal of a match is to win. If wrestlers aren't visibly trying to win, then all they're doing is a stunt show/display of moves.
It is kind of ridiculous these days when people are kicking out of top rope avalanche super-busters on the apron/floor/table, but the match is over as soon as someone uses a DDT with a funny name. Exposes how pretend everything is, and in that case, sure. Why waste time with all pins/submissions/count out attempts that aren't the finish.
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Post by Scott! on Jan 29, 2022 11:52:50 GMT -5
I think it really depends on the crowd as to how well it works. Look at matches in WWE like Cena/Punk at MITB 2011, it makes perfect sense when the crowds hot like that to have one or two reaaaally near falls. But in a random match on Raw, we don't need 2 or 3 kick outs of finishers. If it's saved for a big PPV match then it feels more special, but doing it every other match it loses the feel of it and seems pointless.
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Post by Next Man’s Knowing Rock on Jan 29, 2022 11:58:58 GMT -5
It is kind of ridiculous these days when people are kicking out of top rope avalanche super-busters on the apron/floor/table, but the match is over as soon as someone uses a DDT with a funny name. That was one of the things I hated about ECW 1.0. None of the mainstays were very good wrestlers and they all seemed to have DDT finishers, so it felt like every match involved flaming tables and chairs and barbed wire, but none of those things were as deadly as a DDT. |
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Post by CM Tusk on Jan 29, 2022 13:53:11 GMT -5
Remember when Alberto beat Cena with a Shining Wizard at Hell In A Cell 2015 and everyone lost their minds?
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kinnikuman
Main Eventer
Joined on: Feb 6, 2020 21:42:25 GMT -5
Posts: 4,674
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Post by kinnikuman on Jan 31, 2022 15:25:42 GMT -5
END OF DAYS! END OF DAYS!
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Hogan VS Flair
