saintegenevieve
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Sept 6, 2022 4:19:20 GMT -5
Posts: 192
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Post by saintegenevieve on Nov 25, 2022 3:00:37 GMT -5
I was lurking a forum & found out that Peacock did a series on Teddy Hart. This topic encompasses true crime and pro wrestling, but since Peacock has a casual audience, I guess it's best to place it here and not in the Lounge
I'll start this with a poll
I have read a lot of true crime in my life and profiled some unsolved ones better than cops did. Not sure why. I think I have good instincts about dangerous people, can do stats, and have enough of a cultural background to put people in context
I hated the documentarian.
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saintegenevieve
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Sept 6, 2022 4:19:20 GMT -5
Posts: 192
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Post by saintegenevieve on Nov 25, 2022 4:46:47 GMT -5
Guess I'll preface this by saying I first heard of Teddy Hart in 2002 or so. He'd do these bizarre shoots talking about how he'll do a backflip in tribute to Owen Hart. Lo and behold, his name comes up again in ROH, and it's a train wreck that anyone astute could have seen coming that he would do an in-ring mutiny
Teddy Hart is classic felon material. He's obviously violent, overbearing, mentally off, and seems to have zero self awareness or impulse control. That was ALWAYS my view about him, despite his fanboys crying in protest about the obvious. (Think how fans to this day claim that Fritz Von Erich wasn't a hideous child abuser. Of course he was. No one loses 4 kids to early deaths, all by the age of 33, without a uniquely dysfunctional family background.)
I wasn't aware that he got charged with sexual assault. I wasn't surprised one bit that some girl went missing and that it was tied to him. Teddy Hart's composure gave me a "When," not "If" vibe. Even the documentarian said so. I'm just surprised that he had to be around him for two years to conclude that. I saw that in five minutes. We're talking about someone who couldn't even play along the regimented social rules of wrestling! That was clear 20 years ago as much as it is now
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Documentarian was annoying. Not only is Teddy Hart violent, he's insanely boring. What does he do all day? Smoke weed, lift weights, plays by his own rules, no social skills, lies compulsively, has sex parties? It's the kind of lifestyle that only appeals to low-tier people. It's not hard to see the misery that befalls Teddy and all those around him (including Fiddler) comes from their own vanity and greed. What bothers me about the documentarian is I know deep down that he pities an animal like Teddy, even when he tries to be a moral relativist about him
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You can't talk about Teddy or his victims without discussing the Hart Family
Teddy's schtik was dangling candy in front of marks and women with self esteem or mental health issues so that they could use him for fame or being associated with the Hart Family
I discussed this elsewhere. The Hart Family isn't really "Wrestling Royalty." It's a manufactured myth invented by the McMahon Machine to get over Bret Hart and his personality deficiencies. (Most wrestlers have interesting backgrounds. It stands out to me that McMahon never did that propaganda campaign for any other act with possible exception to Eddie Guerrero.) Stu Hart wasn't some huge legend of the pioneer days. He was respected by his peers. He wasn't any kind of headliner. He ran a backwoods territory that often bled red, saved after by the NWA Cartel with Andre the Giant or the NWA Champion headlining for a week or two in a given year. The manufactured Stampede Myth has been so entrenched that it even fooled some historians and has convinced two generations of fans that Stampede was a big territory. It wasn't. It certainly didn't rival Montreal, Toronto, or Dupree's.
Bret Hart's neurosis IMO is driven by the fact that all of his brothers were total losers, with exception to Owen, who was also the youngest. The family legacy had to be carried by someone. Bret was respectably athletic (city champion in high school amateur wrestling) and is much more intelligent than the rest. That family dynamic would define not only how he saw himself but also his substitute father Vince McMahon. (My husband isn't into wrestling. He is a psychologist though. That dynamic about Bret-McMahon stood out to him.)
At the end of Bret's excellent autobiography that reads like a Shakespearean tragedy, he attributes (wrongly IMO since they died well past life expectancy) the death of his parents to his bum brothers. I know less about his sisters, but it is true that Diana and Neidhart's wife were funneling documents to McMahon's legal team during the Owen Hart civil suit. (Consider how sane Martha and her kids are compared to that toxic family.)
Genes matter. That's why psychologists ask for one's family history. Teddy Hart is closer to the average Hart in being bankrupt than Bret Hart and Owen Hart were to their entire family. One possible exception is one of the brothers who died of cancer early on
That's the background of Teddy Hart - a reprobate type who has it in his head that the Hart Family is royalty, and he's (or should be) the heir apparent to the family throne, like all entitled douche bags think
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Because of the above, he got bailed out. One of his parents claimed (laughably) that Teddy Hart has a "147 IQ." Teddy comes off as a dumb meathead. 147 is extraordinarily high. When people make up IQ scores, it's strange how often "147" gets cited. (Same with "160" and "165.") Like a lot of parents with money, they always talk about how brilliant are their kids, how some defining trauma led them astray, and that "He used to make A's until this [malevolent entity] happened." Total enablers
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Legally, the victims are innocent but morally they're culpable. I can't relate to women who get starry-eyed over a guy who cons people out of money, lives in sexual hedonism, clearly is violent and controlling, and gets stoned all day. If serial killers are guilty of lust and wrath etched back to their lust, women like them are driven by greed and vanity. Remove the Hart name, and he's pretty much some kind of street pimp, human trafficker, or a normal Joe who shoots up his wife over a bad break up
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Fiddler is no different. She abandons her 3 kids to pursue fame. Never mind that she was 30 years old when she was starting to wrestle. Each year that one waits is a long time. She would be near Charlotte Flair's age just to get ready, who stayed in shape and has the body to do that kind of career. It's nothing more than shallow greed and vanity on Fiddler's own end.
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I don't know what happens when your passport goes missing (or gets stolen by a psychopath like Teddy Hart), but couldn't she just go to the Canadian Consulate General for that? There's no way you're stuck in a country to be deported or to be in flight in permanence if you lose your passport...
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Chasyn Rance is a convicted sex offender and actual pedophile and friends with Teddy Hart.(Not all RSO's are pedophiles - rapists, peeping Tom's, CSAM, public urination, certain sex acts like mouth-wise can qualify for RSO status depending on state and locality.) He runs a wrestling school and makes extra revenue from pornography simulating pro wrestling. (Of course a soulless, empty, fragile guy like Teddy Hart would act in something like that.)
Nothing about the Speaking Out movement surprised me. One high school classmate wanted to get involved in that industry and did as a teenager. We were having beers a few years later and disclosed to me that his trainer, who is now a Pentecostal pastor, was trying to trade sexual favors with him. He was 15 or 16 at the time. He also told me stories about during some matches later on. Said things about wrestlers exposing their nuts during promos, promoters steal money (including that pastor who fleeced another show of their revenue), old stars showing up pilled up, smaller guys on steroids joking about their shrunken penises. It's an industry of con artists and perverts.
I also knew a WCW wrestler in town. He never did anything inappropriate. He was a total nut though. I used to see him work out all the time.
That someone like Joey Ryan turned out to be a sexual reprobate should have surprised no one. I read a story that he'd show up at shows taking place at high schools where there would be a lollipop design on his trunks. (I guess so long as he gave politically correct platitudes, people turned a blind eye to how creepy that is.)
So here we have Rance all but running a human trafficking ring... big surprise there. What's weird is the industry is more cleaned up than ever before, but it seems to have the seediest characters now (probably from the lack of gatekeeping). None of that is meant to downplay the Memphis scene. I'm sure World Class has more than a few stories of things that never got publicized
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Guess it's annoying but understandable that Fiddler's family and friends lionize her as if she was a good person. She's a stripper. Unless you fall into that from early trafficking, I struggle to see how you can be a good person. Strippers are total mercenaries. They become masters at controlling the male mind through sex. It's also a dangerous job from the stalkers, so they already don't have a normal fear response. She and Teddy Hart were working one another
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The documentary series didn't really make a good case that Teddy Hart is guilty. I tend to sympathize that Hart was railroaded by the documentarian, even if Hart brought all of that onto himself. Yes, I think he's fully capable of killing a woman. I also think that he's experienced enough to not accidentally do so, which often happens in ambiguous cases. (Snuka is a good example. I read Muchnick's book and wasn't impressed by the case or by the conspiracies he came up with. It's probably the worst true crime I ever read.)
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What happened?
Fiddler ended up in the Miami stripper scene as an undocumented worker. Already in a high-risk profession, that doubles the risks. Same with anything involved with the sex trade. Where you got strip clubs, you got pimps, then trafficking, then trafficked kids, then porno shops. The sex trade is a social parasite that feeds onto itself. (Best solution is the Nordic one: criminalize Johns, put them in empathy classes, help women get a trade. Legalization does not work since it makes child sex trafficking easier to do. Netherlands is a good example of this. Also 20% of pimps have a minor in their stable.)
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Profiling:
It's never easy to tell when you deal with victims who have no moral compass. Obviously she didn't. Like I said, she could have gone to the embassy or to the consulate to fix her Passport issue. Maybe she didn't know, but how hard would that have been to find out?
Setting is Miami: 1. She could simply have been killed and thrown in the Everglades. Stripping is a very dangerous job. Even if she was working illegally, surely the owner or a worker had an address. In the end, her body has not been found
* Breast augmentation is very common. Had a few friends who did that. Since that was done, pathologists usually won't make a clerical error in thinking that she was just an unknown, to be buried in a Pauper's Grave, especially with modern DNA. I tend not to think that any county would have made that mistake. It's not the '80s when homicide rates were much higher, no DNA was around, and underbelly types like her risked being mislabeled or miscategorized. Augmentation and dental work can usually give away whether a victim has money and roughly where they got those operations.
In other words, I don't think her body was found
2. Ending up in a dumpster, then a landfill is possible. I don't know much about that process anymore. It can happen. Like a lot of things, it used to happen more in the '80s. Her body would have had to be dismembered. You can't really hide that kind of evidence without a lot of work. Crackheads, meth heads, speed junkies tend not to be that thorough
3. She hitchhiked out of town to get back into Canada, then got killed by the driver or dropped off at a truck stop and got killed later. Not impossible but those types of murders tend to result in the body being uncovered
4. Probably the most likely: she went to an underbelly hotel, went on a bender, died, and simply didn't get logged past "White female, in her 30s, died of an OD." Cops got alerted through fingerprints but forgot about it. Just another OD, just another day at the office. In these cases, breast augmentations and dental work don't really matter
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It's entirely possible that Teddy Hart or Chasyn Rence killed her - Rence more likely than Hart. Hart comes off as a feral animal who, once he's finished with someone, he moves on to the next one. I don't see him coming back to kill her. She was known to be alive 6 months after the two were last known to be in contact.
Rence, like a lot of pornographers, is barely human himself and seems more methodical. It's possible but unlikely that he somehow found out about her in Miami, then smoked her because she had the goods on him. Underbelly types in the sex trade know one another, but they're not in deep like you'd find with dealers. Cops should consider getting a warrant on him to see what they can get on him, then hitting him with charges. Whether that has anything to do with Fiddler is irrelevant. I have no doubt that he's involved in illegal activity
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* Documentarian and family alike remarked on her appearance. I don't put much stock in that. Meth heads can end up looking really disheveled if they're cranking hard. Like I said, she's a stripper and was one. They're all pretty screwed up people.
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It's a foregone conclusion to think that she's dead. Underbelly strippers like her can survive for a long time, especially in the sex trade, without getting busted, even if she has a habit. Prostitutes do get busted since what they're doing is illegal. Sometimes cops won't even check your prints. (They used to not do so back when 13 year olds got trafficked.) She could easily survive in a small town in Georgia or Alabama stripping, scared of getting apprehended by ICE and feeling conflict over having abandoned her kids to seek fame.
I don't put much stock in what her sister says. Good mothers don't pursue relationships with mental cases like Teddy Hart. They don't abandon the kids to seek fame. She obviously wasn't interested in being a mother. Why would she simply return to that kind of life when she's an irresponsible person? She's free of them at this stage. If she's still alive, I'm sure she rationalizes what she did to herself with "My kids are better off with them than with me, using altruism to disguise her self-interested vanity.
That could explain as well her changing appearances. She has been running away for a long time
I don't see how Teddy Hart could have killed her. If she was murdered, it was by someone with no ties to wrestling.
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Post by LA Times on Nov 25, 2022 4:52:03 GMT -5
This should be in the Classic Wrestling forum
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The Real Chillary
Main Eventer
Chillary since day one ish
Joined on: Aug 23, 2016 15:32:38 GMT -5
Posts: 1,181
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Post by The Real Chillary on Nov 25, 2022 4:57:14 GMT -5
Holy crap, nobody is going to read all of that.
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Post by CM Tusk on Nov 25, 2022 9:27:08 GMT -5
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Post by PJ on Nov 25, 2022 9:36:41 GMT -5
This should be in the Classic Wrestling forum Don’t you dare! First I never heard of this. And just looked it up and this doesn’t meet the ten years prior to today rule to go on the Classic board.
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Post by LA Times on Nov 25, 2022 10:55:02 GMT -5
This should be in the Classic Wrestling forum Don’t you dare! First I never heard of this. And just looked it up and this doesn’t meet the ten years prior to today rule to go on the Classic board. I thought it was 5 years. And Teddy Hart was from the 2000s. But OK, maybe the Other Feds board is more appropriate.
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Post by GreyHaze:Big Bad Booty Daddy on Nov 25, 2022 11:38:56 GMT -5
I had to Google all of this. Damn, she was last seen in 2016. I never heard about this incident until today, did any news companies pick this up when it happened? Strange.
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Deleted
Joined on: Mar 29, 2024 0:30:39 GMT -5
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2022 11:59:16 GMT -5
I thought the Teddy stuff was already pretty well known. I haven't watched the documentary yet but I'm quite excited to. The eventual Dark Side of the Ring on him will also be insane.
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Post by PrincessOfSunlight on Nov 25, 2022 13:34:14 GMT -5
I think you did it.
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Post by John Zero on Nov 25, 2022 17:33:28 GMT -5
Found Teddy Hart's account.
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Post by ~*Young $ Money*~ on Nov 25, 2022 20:25:29 GMT -5
I started to watch this yesterday and it’s in nuts. Teddy is out of his mind. Have one more episode to get through
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TWJT
Superstar
Joined on: Aug 7, 2021 19:07:25 GMT -5
Posts: 535
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Post by TWJT on Nov 25, 2022 20:44:13 GMT -5
I'm thinking he went for a power/control-type thing, and took her passport away, leaving her stranded in America, so that he could later find her and "save the day," whenever he got sick of whomever he was dating next. In the midst of the chaos, she got out of jail, maybe dabbled in prostitution or sex work of some kind, had a violent client, and was killed. Just my theory, could be totally wrong. But I don't think he killed her. And he might not know specifically who did it, either. But he probably doesn't want to aid in the investigation, because it could eventually be revealed that he was participating in a kind of confinement (which he had been accused of before).
Shame he's so nuts, I feel like he would've been great working with the Hardyz, Dudleyz, Edge & Christian, and others as a youngster during the Attitude Era. He has a hell of a lot of talent. Did TNA even ever give him a run? Sounds like the highest level he ever reached was Ring of Honor and MLW.
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Post by Nivro™ on Nov 25, 2022 23:54:29 GMT -5
Teddy Hart is a POS and this documentary proves all of that...However it also shows Teddy was across the country when Fiddler disappeared. So while he's a POS and deserves a crap life...No, I don think he killed her.
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Chody Rhodes
Main Eventer
Joined on: Apr 23, 2016 5:57:28 GMT -5
Posts: 4,876
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Post by Chody Rhodes on Nov 26, 2022 0:49:05 GMT -5
Assuming that any human being isn't fully capable of commiting the worst types of atrocities against other humans given the right circumstances is how people end up victims in the first place.
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Post by PJ on Nov 27, 2022 13:43:37 GMT -5
The guy is such a black eye on the Hart name. What a POS he is.
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Deleted
Joined on: Mar 29, 2024 0:30:39 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2022 5:34:18 GMT -5
saintegenevieve, you have to realize that 95% of this board is nothing but children who can't read past the 3rd grade level.
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Post by k5 on Nov 28, 2022 12:21:25 GMT -5
saintegenevieve, you have to realize that 95% of this board is nothing but children who can't read past the 3rd grade level. they do realize that. that’s the gimmick anyways, total slander about the hart family. as a Canadian I can tell you that the Hart family was indeed royalty here and that predates Bret’s successes in the wwf. Calgary was a big deal. men made their careers out there. why in the hell would Andre bother going out there otherwise
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Deleted
Joined on: Mar 29, 2024 0:30:39 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2022 13:28:54 GMT -5
I live in the prairies in Canada. Ie where stampede wrestling and the Hart family were the biggest. They most certainly are wrestling royalty here.
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Post by Patrick Bateman (original) on Nov 28, 2022 21:58:28 GMT -5
As Bret said when this original show was being made "Teddy needs to learn when to shut his mouth." Also I would like to know what happened to the other guy on the show and Teddy's assistant. Bret handed him the Reigns atleast 2 or 3 times. And he always blew it with his attitude and mouth.
I don't think Teddy killed her. But I do think he put her in a can't win situation.
Also does Teddy have a tumor? That last episode in the interview in the gym he has a huge knot behind his left ear. No bruising or anything. It is only seen one other time in his entrance in Mexico? and it is less than a quarter of it's size.
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