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Post by hitmancmedge on Dec 31, 2022 19:15:55 GMT -5
So interesting debate on 83 Weeks. Bischoff claims that the four horsemen were never a draw, they never drew any money.
He isn’t saying they weren’t talented, great wrestlers etc
But he is saying NWA/WCW never turned a profit until 1995. So he is saying despite what we think about the group, they never were a draw hence why he never pushed them seriously in WCW.
Interesting debate, I don’t personally agree but I can’t argue that he doesn’t have some valid points.
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Post by LA Times on Dec 31, 2022 19:25:58 GMT -5
Flair/Arn/Ole/Blanchard were filling up arenas in the south during the 80s. Flair/Anderson/Benoit/McMichael were a reason WCW was kicking the WWF's ass in the Monday Night War.
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Post by jason88cubs on Dec 31, 2022 19:35:04 GMT -5
It's a interesting conversation. In the south and southeast , yes they drew
Would they have nationwide? Hard to say
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Post by The Brain on Dec 31, 2022 19:48:38 GMT -5
Yeah they were over like rover in the south.Add in the faces they were paired with like Dusty,Magnum etc and yeah def $$$$
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Post by MKSavage on Dec 31, 2022 19:59:07 GMT -5
From what I've read, JCP was doing very well during the Horsemen days, the pay days were good for wrestlers. It wasn't because the Horsemen didn't draw well that they were in debt in later years, it was JCP started spending too much money that caused the issues (like buying a private jet to fly the wrestlers around the country). Same with WCW up until the NWO days, WCW management always spent way more than the company was making. Hell, was it 1998 or 1999 that WCW lost 60 million dollars under Bischoff's leadership? It wasn't that WCW wasn't drawing well, they were just spending too recklessly.
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Post by The Brain on Dec 31, 2022 20:03:32 GMT -5
From what I've read, JCP was doing very well during the Horsemen days, the pay days were good for wrestlers. It wasn't because the Horsemen didn't draw well that they were in debt in later years, it was JCP started spending too much money that caused the issues ( like buying a private jet to fly the wrestlers around the country). Same with WCW up until the NWO days, WCW management always spent way more than the company was making. Hell, was it 1998 or 1999 that WCW lost 60 million dollars under Bischoff's leadership? It wasn't that WCW wasn't drawing well, they were just spending too recklessly. Only the best for the champ  |
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Post by Scott! on Dec 31, 2022 20:33:51 GMT -5
I read that interview and the things Bischoff said were pretty cynical for my liking. If it wasn't for Flair and the 4 Horseman (obviously not discounting anyone else that worked for Jim Crockett promotions) there wouldn't have been a WCW to begin with. His comment that Hogan was the reason WCW drew wasn't a complete fabrication, Hogan and the nWo drew a ton for WCW and crippled it into the bargain. So it's swings and roundabouts.
Bischoff's obvious hatred for Flair is just him spouting BS about him every chance he gets.
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Jan 1, 2023 1:48:23 GMT -5
I could see Bischoff's point in 1995.
But that was also mainly of the booking that he was doing too.
If you look back at 1985 - 1991, the Horsemen were money makers, they drew. Fans hated them and wanted to see the good guys beat them.
In 1995, they were just another group among other groups who were wrestling weekly on Nitro and were shades of their former selves.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2023 4:25:12 GMT -5
they were part of the reason i watched and spent my money on NWA/WCW from 1985 to 1991 shoot, they were THEEEE heels of the promotion back then all the fueds with dusty, magnum, nikita, road warriors, sting ,luger, gary hart international, etc etc etc Attachment Deletedthey did better back then than MANY of Bichoff led events later in the WCW 1999-2001 day: wrestlenomics.com/resources/wcw-pay-per-view-buys/ |
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Post by MKSavage on Jan 1, 2023 10:38:38 GMT -5
they were part of the reason i watched and spent my money on NWA/WCW from 1985 to 1991 shoot, they were THEEEE heels of the promotion back then all the fueds with dusty, magnum, nikita, road warriors, sting ,luger, gary hart international, etc etc etc View Attachmentthey did better back then than MANY of Bichoff led events later in the WCW 1999-2001 day:
wrestlenomics.com/resources/wcw-pay-per-view-buys/And that's saying something because a lot of people did not have cable in the 80s, many more people would have bought the PPVs had they had cable. Check out the buy rates of the first 10 or so JCP/WCW ppvs, they beat all of the PPVs of the 90s with the exception of a few during the height of WCW's popularity. Also, the WWF was playing games with the cable companies back in the 80s, which cost them a few more buys as well. The Horsemen were definite draws from 1984/85 thru 1988. But after their initial incarnations, the group as a whole got watered-down that by the 90s, they weren't as important to the company as they had been. |
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Post by hitmancmedge on Jan 1, 2023 12:35:26 GMT -5
they were part of the reason i watched and spent my money on NWA/WCW from 1985 to 1991 shoot, they were THEEEE heels of the promotion back then all the fueds with dusty, magnum, nikita, road warriors, sting ,luger, gary hart international, etc etc etc View Attachmentthey did better back then than MANY of Bichoff led events later in the WCW 1999-2001 day:
wrestlenomics.com/resources/wcw-pay-per-view-buys/And that's saying something because a lot of people did not have cable in the 80s, many more people would have bought the PPVs had they had cable. Check out the buy rates of the first 10 or so JCP/WCW ppvs, they beat all of the PPVs of the 90s with the exception of a few during the height of WCW's popularity. Also, the WWF was playing games with the cable companies back in the 80s, which cost them a few more buys as well. The Horsemen were definite draws from 1984/85 thru 1988. But after their initial incarnations, the group as a whole got watered-down that by the 90s, they weren't as important to the company as they had been. $h!t the 93 version didn’t even really have four horsemen lol |
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Post by Evil Abed on Jan 1, 2023 12:47:55 GMT -5
Agreed on the thought that during their heyday in the 80’s and very early 90’s, the Horsemen were “the” draw. Everyone wanted to pay to see them get beat up. True heels at their core.
Somewhere between then and when WCW launched Nitro, the appeal had been lost imo. It felt less like an exclusive group and more like desperation when members kept coming and going every year or so. Luger, Sting, Jarrett, Hennig (to an extent as it was a means to an ends for the bigger group at the time - the nWo), etc… never made sense to me. That being said I did enjoy the version of the group with Benoit and Malenko but there’s a big difference between best match quality and whether or not they were drawing.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2023 16:39:36 GMT -5
Agreed on the thought that during their heyday in the 80’s and very early 90’s, the Horsemen were “the” draw. Everyone wanted to pay to see them get beat up. True heels at their core. Somewhere between then and when WCW launched Nitro, the appeal had been lost imo. It felt less like an exclusive group and more like desperation when members kept coming and going every year or so. Luger, Sting, Jarrett, Hennig (to an extent as it was a means to an ends for the bigger group at the time - the nWo), etc… never made sense to me. That being said I did enjoy the version of the group with Benoit and Malenko but there’s a big difference between best match quality and whether or not they were drawing. luger in 1987 horseman was GREAT IMO! |
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