omegaman88
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Nov 11, 2019 17:04:10 GMT -5
Posts: 390
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Post by omegaman88 on Feb 6, 2023 7:50:11 GMT -5
Over the last decade I've become a very casual wrestling fan, popping in every so often and sticking around for a couple of months.
Recently I've been hearing that WWE was worlds better under Triple H than Vince Mcmahon, so I figured I was due to pop in for a bit. It's also Wrestlemania season, so what better time than now.
I decided to give all three major wrestling shows a watch last week and was pretty underwhelmed with the WWE side of things. Outside of more logical booking decisions, the overall product wasn't any different to me, all of the talk of change felt like a placebo effect. The in ring action was still very formulatic and the matches were largely nothing special.
I gave Dynamite a try and was actually really impressed with the physicality and competitiveness of the Moxley vs Hangman match, and the Darby Allin vs Samoa Joe match felt like peak ECW brutality. Does AEW always give away that kind of action for free on television? I felt like I got a small PPV for free that night.
Now, to read the online discourse, AEW is struggling and WWE is on fire. That feels insane to me, even though I absolutely love the bloodline angle. The matches are still incredibly average, even Roman's main event match at the Rumble wasn't anything out of this world, but I keep reading that WWE is unbeatable when they are firing on all cylinders, but what does that mean?
I feel like WWE just has to be competent and have one hot angle to be considered great, and the competition can go for broke and it doesn't matter. People want to enjoy WWE, no matter how much better the other guy is. Is this an unfair assessment?
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Post by βππ£π ππ ππππ on Feb 6, 2023 10:16:52 GMT -5
I don't think its an unfair assessment. I think maybe wrestling has a lot of different fans and those fans just tip the scale. Even though you or I or whoever thinks that the in-ring product on AEW is far superior, the majority of the fans just find a story like the Bloodline/Zayn angle so interesting that it seems like the buzz in wrestling is misguided in the AEW fan's perspective.
Really, the only "competition" going on is the one percieved by fans. I really have a hard time believing that WWE and AEW are thinking about each other that often. They have two very different audiences that crossover time-to-time. Wrestling fans want to pretend its Monday Night in 1997 but it isn't. At most, AEW and WWE have some competing interests in talent, and the Wednesday Night War stuff in 2019 was just a really bad move by Triple H and was over really quickly. There are some subtle jabs from one company to another but at the end of the day, wrestling fans will watch both. WWE fans will watch WWE. AEW fans will watch AEW. Its two companies who are made up of rosters that all intermingle and are friends with each other. Hell, Ricky Starks was just backstage with Cody before he won the Royal Rumble last weekend.
No one cares about comparing the two companies except for fans, and on that level, we will never be on the same page. I think its hard to say the bar is lower for WWE because we have to define the bar. How do we define the bar when all of our tastes are different?
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WrestleZayniac
Main Eventer
Joined on: Apr 23, 2016 5:57:28 GMT -5
Posts: 3,590
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Post by WrestleZayniac on Feb 6, 2023 11:35:07 GMT -5
I find it ironic that you say WWE has failed to change but then go on to cite yet another Moxley match where he gets beaten, bloodied and wins in the end as the opposite of predictable or failing to change.
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Post by βππ£π ππ ππππ on Feb 6, 2023 12:06:39 GMT -5
I find it ironic that you say WWE has failed to change but then go on to cite yet another Moxley match where he gets beaten, bloodied and wins in the end as the opposite of predictable or failing to change. Well he did say he gave AEW a try, implying that he doesn't keep up with it. Those who watch AEW regularly can connect the dots on Mox's matches but if you're someone who is just tuning in or sees Dynamite rarely, its gotta be quite a spectacle. Let alone, giving Mox the props that he bleeds, fights and works hard on free TV -- even though his matches are repetative. |
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Post by ASR (therockisback) on Feb 6, 2023 14:48:31 GMT -5
It probably is but they still making more money then ever before with all these record breaking moves nowadays... overall it doesnβt even matter.
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Post by tylerbreezee on Feb 6, 2023 16:32:56 GMT -5
Thatβs the thing. Youβre a casual fan who hasnβt been watching every week for the last decade or more.
When you watch the product every single week for years, you notice changes.
Formulaic matches are just the epitome of pro-wrestling but unlike Vince, itβs not rematch after rematch every single week. There was one time when Vince ran Kofi vs Ziggler for MONTHS straight!
Itβs the long term storytelling, itβs everyone getting a chance to shine. Have their been some duds that Triple H brought back? Of course. But at least Triple H gave them a chance, meanwhile, Vince would decide within a week your fate and youβd be lucky if you werenβt fired and just became a jobber on main event.
Look at Austin Theory. Vince had a hard on for him but he literally made him a joke. Dude got 0 reaction, nobody cared about his doofy ass, and yet we were supposed to believe he was the future? Triple H grabbed him and did a complete 180 and turned this kid into a modern day 2003 Randy Orton.
AEW is sinking because their roster is loaded. Thereβs so many people that storylines become inconsistent because the program has so many going on that they donβt know what to include every week. Itβs basically βoh I wonder who Iβm gonna see tonightβ instead of a set excitement of βI canβt wait to see Becky Lynch, Seth Rollins, and Bobby Lashleyβ because you know those are the people who are on Raw. You know those are the people who are gonna be there every week with a storyline.
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Post by BSR on Feb 6, 2023 17:30:52 GMT -5
WWE can serve up about anything and people eat it up. Yes the bar is lower.
There's no difference in triple h or Vince booking. It's literally the same crap.
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Post by hitmancmedge on Feb 6, 2023 18:01:36 GMT -5
WWE can serve up about anything and people eat it up. Yes the bar is lower. There's no difference in triple h or Vince booking. It's literally the same crap. You keep spouting off these same lines of bull and multiple people have told you otherwise and given you multiple examples and you still go nope same. Nothing on this planet annoys me more than people who just say nonsense and treat it like facts. |
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Post by GilGrissom on Feb 6, 2023 19:20:59 GMT -5
AEW is sinking because their roster is loaded. Thereβs so many people that storylines become inconsistent because the program has so many going on that they donβt know what to include every week. Itβs basically βoh I wonder who Iβm gonna see tonightβ instead of a set excitement of βI canβt wait to see Becky Lynch, Seth Rollins, and Bobby Lashleyβ because you know those are the people who are on Raw. You know those are the people who are gonna be there every week with a storyline. I mean it's not sinking at all and the overwhelming majority of stories aren't inconsistent at all, but this is just a matter of taste in general. I'd much rather go into a weekly show wondering "oh I wonder who I'm gonna see tonight" rather than going "Hey it's the same people". Doesn't make that a bad thing, it's a preference. It's also not a bad thing to have the same people every week, it's a preference. That said, in terms of consistency of people Impact is the true "I wonder who I'm gonna see tonight" program. Taping multiple weeks in one block means they have to rotate more in terms of who wrestles each "week" otherwise talent is doing like 3 matches in a session. Not unlike when NXT was taped a month at a time. I like that style a lot better. I know if I watch for a month, I won't get to see my favourite person wrestle 4 weeks in a row, but in every 4 weeks I'm basically going to get to see everyone wrestle. I'd much rather that personally and I wish WWE and AEW both cycled talent more the way Impact and old NXT do/did. |
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Post by finnbalor1 on Feb 6, 2023 19:42:07 GMT -5
I've gotten back into wrestling and watched WWE for about the last 5 or 6 years and haven't missed a episode of Dynamite and Rampage since it started. I agree with the ones that's saying the E definitely has changed under Hunter,it might not show as much if you just tune in from time to time but its no where close to what it was if you seen the last couple years under Vince.Just like I said I still love both companies but tbh I'm a lot more excited about WWE right now then I am AEW
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Post by BSR on Feb 6, 2023 20:42:48 GMT -5
WWE can serve up about anything and people eat it up. Yes the bar is lower. There's no difference in triple h or Vince booking. It's literally the same crap. You keep spouting off these same lines of bull and multiple people have told you otherwise and given you multiple examples and you still go nope same. Nothing on this planet annoys me more than people who just say nonsense and treat it like facts. Multiple have shared their opinion. Telling me otherwise implies they're right. But yeah. Spouting nonsense as fact. Sure is annoying. Pot meet kettle. |
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Post by hitmancmedge on Feb 6, 2023 20:49:31 GMT -5
You keep spouting off these same lines of bull and multiple people have told you otherwise and given you multiple examples and you still go nope same. Nothing on this planet annoys me more than people who just say nonsense and treat it like facts. Multiple have shared their opinion. Telling me otherwise implies they're right. But yeah. Spouting nonsense as fact. Sure is annoying. Pot meet kettle. It is not an opinion when multiple people, can pinpoint for you actual examples of change from the Vince era. Those are facts. You saying itβs the same with no examples to back it up or anything sort of conversation whatsoever is opinion and nonsense. |
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Post by Evil Abed on Feb 6, 2023 20:50:38 GMT -5
While the two are presenting completely different products, I find that I can follow what WWE is presenting and their direction a lot better than AEW.
Unless there's some kind of injury, I don't find myself wondering why WWE talent just disappears off TV for months on end (i.e. Miro).
To me AEW presents well to the current generation because most peoples attention span is minimal nowadays. Not meant to be an insult just honest fact. Fans love AEW because it gives you everything you want in the moment. You want blood, thumbtacks, barbwire, guys jumping off stages? You don't need to wait for some big storyline moment.
I tend to lean the other way because pay off is way more important to me in wrestling storytelling than seeing guys (and girls) try to destroy themselves every night.
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Post by hitmancmedge on Feb 6, 2023 20:58:00 GMT -5
I honestly donβt feel like AEW gets a lot of unfair criticism? Maybe itβs just that I donβt see it. But I feel like the stuff that I do see tends to be similar justified complaints (wrestlers disappearing, too big a roster, people getting title shots out of nowhere, a lot stop and start pushes, not giving people the feuds they want FTR vs Bucks) I know that sounds like a big list, but itβs basically a sum of everything Iβve really ever seen people say.
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Post by BSR on Feb 6, 2023 21:36:58 GMT -5
Multiple have shared their opinion. Telling me otherwise implies they're right. But yeah. Spouting nonsense as fact. Sure is annoying. Pot meet kettle. It is not an opinion when multiple people, can pinpoint for you actual examples of change from the Vince era. Those are facts. You saying itβs the same with no examples to back it up or anything sort of conversation whatsoever is opinion and nonsense. So because multiple people believe their own opinion that makes it fact. Just because s few of you on a message board think Johnny boring and his wife were good hires and all love whining about it. It doesn't make it fact. You're screaming your opinion at me stating fact. Not one single hire triple h made has made an impact. The product is the same. The last new hire Vince brought in is headlining mania against a Vince guy. You are posting nonsense. It's the same  ing show. All that changed is triple h brought back duds. |
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Post by finnbalor1 on Feb 7, 2023 0:10:03 GMT -5
I don't see that many people claiming him hiring a couple people back is what's changed WWE for the better. Hunter has done a lot more then just hiring Gargano(which I can't see how anybody doesn't see how talented he is)back that people has stated plenty of times that's made the product better.
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Post by Sizzle on Feb 7, 2023 1:34:13 GMT -5
There's so much going on in this thread lol.
I don't think the original point is true, though. I don't know how much you've engaged in online wrestling discussion over the past decade but for a long time there was a negative, hypercritical outlook on WWE that even I was a part of. If there was ever a time for the bar to be low on the good that WWE can produce, it was some of those times where there would be bright spots in an otherwise poor product. WWE nowadays I don't think has a low bar at all. I sometimes feel an argument can be made that the advent of AEW has raised the expectations for the quality of WWE's product, and I feel the desire for a true alternative to WWE has led to the bar being lowered for AEW at times, with a lot of stuff given a pass because of that need.
The big thing, which has been mentioned, is preferences. A lot of it comes down to what people want and while there is crossover, WWE's reach is much broader and aimed at a more diverse audience than AEW's target audience. They're both selling wrestling, but different versions of it and to different people.
Not related to that point, but while I do think the Triple H regime's changes are largely overstated, it is weird to see blatant ignorance of genuine changes. I'm of the belief that WWE has largely been great since 2021 when Vince was still in charge and there wasn't a drastic change in quality, but there have been tangible changes in WWE's programming since Triple H came in. The focus on the presentation of the midcard championships, longer TV matches, less ridiculous gimmicks, factions, roster depth, and talent preferences are all things that stand out as being different from the Vince regime.
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Post by VKM Propagandist on Feb 7, 2023 3:09:12 GMT -5
Blame Old Man McMahon for producing some of the worst ever television in history
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WrestleZayniac
Main Eventer
Joined on: Apr 23, 2016 5:57:28 GMT -5
Posts: 3,590
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Post by WrestleZayniac on Feb 7, 2023 9:26:30 GMT -5
Multiple have shared their opinion. Telling me otherwise implies they're right. But yeah. Spouting nonsense as fact. Sure is annoying. Pot meet kettle. It is not an opinion when multiple people, can pinpoint for you actual examples of change from the Vince era. Those are facts. You saying itβs the same with no examples to back it up or anything sort of conversation whatsoever is opinion and nonsense. Idk why anyone feeds that troll. If he's posting anywhere in a WWE thread, it's to criticize the product.  |
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Owen Wilson's Nose
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Joined on: Jan 28, 2019 22:28:39 GMT -5
Posts: 1,052
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Post by Owen Wilson's Nose on Feb 7, 2023 11:12:20 GMT -5
Some people just need to accept the fact that just because someone has an opinion on something, doesn't mean that's the way that it is. There are also a few members on here who get waaaay too defensive and protective of WWE, and that has to be exhausting.
I personally don't get my "fix" from watching WWE like I do from AEW. Sure, not every episode of Dynamite is fire, but they for the most part, have bangers on free TV every almost every single week. WWE will have the occasional banger every 6 months or so.
There were only 3 WWE matches from last year that I personally would consider match of the year quality, whereas I literally had to text myself my personal list of my favorite AEW matches from 2022 because there was like 25 of them.
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Great success = profits. Mediocre success still = profits. 