TWJT
Superstar
Joined on: Aug 7, 2021 19:07:25 GMT -5
Posts: 536
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Post by TWJT on Feb 7, 2023 12:21:09 GMT -5
I think because of the name and TV deals that have already been signed, they can get away with lower quality stuff. Last night, though, with Cody/Heyman, Brock, and Lita, I really enjoyed the show.
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Post by ICW on Feb 7, 2023 14:00:20 GMT -5
I think the bar is definitely very, very low for WWE.
The Bloodline storyline is a very good, occasionally great, wrestling angle; that being said, I take great umbrage when people say it's one of the greatest angles of all time. I don't even think it's one of the greatest angles in WWE history (though certainly one of their better angels in a decade+). What makes me chuckle is that the angle likely won't get the big payoff of Sami beating Roman at WrestleMania!
Everything else occurring in the company is average-to-below average IMO. I don't care about Judgment Day, I don't care about the Becky/Damage Control stuff, I REALLY don't care whatever the hell Bray Wyatt is up to, and most of the Triple H returns have either been disappointing (Gargano, Kross) or people taking up television time that just doesn't do a thing for me (Hit Row w/o Swerve, Dexter Lumis). Gargano is exactly a good example of what I'm talking about: imagine if AEW brought in Gargano and had him doing what he's doing in WWE? They'd be (rightfully) criticized.
I think WWE is running a hot, well-received angle and everything else is just there. People keep citing "storytelling" as to why they enjoy WWE over AEW but I find WWE's "storytelling" to often be basic, if not downright stupid even under Triple H.
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Deleted
Joined on: Apr 19, 2024 5:31:04 GMT -5
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2023 14:31:11 GMT -5
To the original question, the bar will be lower. It's an established product with very habitual viewership. Definitely not a unique thing to WWE or this market, we see that in a lot of industries. Habitual consumption lowers the standard required in terms of product quality.
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Post by Codyverse: Tag Team Champion on Feb 7, 2023 18:02:35 GMT -5
Yes and no
Yes because theyβve been around forever therefore are almost bulletproof, seemingly, and still financially thrive. Theyβre also a massive target for criticism and are negatively viewed by a sizable portion of people. They kinda are the βbarβ in the US
No because theyβve produced some of the best memories in all of wrestling. Fans expect better and while theyβve given us below average product for the better part of 15+ years, find me someone who says the company isnβt capable of putting on great wrestling content if the effort is given.
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Feb 7, 2023 19:41:13 GMT -5
WWE is Pro Wrestling despite was anyone says. Kids have no interest in ROH, Impact or AEW, it's WWE that the draw, it's WWE that entertains the majority.
Other promotions have their fanbases who love to put WWE down and pretend that the company is on it's last legs but WWE is always the last standing.
I'm not saying WWE is perfect but they know what the majority wants, they know how to tell a story and keep fans interested. The likes of AEW can put on spot fests and have Moxley bleed every week but that gets boring after a while.
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Post by βππ£π ππ ππππ on Feb 8, 2023 12:02:44 GMT -5
I think the bar is definitely very, very low for WWE. The Bloodline storyline is a very good, occasionally great, wrestling angle; that being said, I take great umbrage when people say it's one of the greatest angles of all time. I don't even think it's one of the greatest angles in WWE history (though certainly one of their better angels in a decade+). What makes me chuckle is that the angle likely won't get the big payoff of Sami beating Roman at WrestleMania! Everything else occurring in the company is average-to-below average IMO. I don't care about Judgment Day, I don't care about the Becky/Damage Control stuff, I REALLY don't care whatever the hell Bray Wyatt is up to, and most of the Triple H returns have either been disappointing (Gargano, Kross) or people taking up television time that just doesn't do a thing for me (Hit Row w/o Swerve, Dexter Lumis). Gargano is exactly a good example of what I'm talking about: imagine if AEW brought in Gargano and had him doing what he's doing in WWE? They'd be (rightfully) criticized. I think WWE is running a hot, well-received angle and everything else is just there. People keep citing "storytelling" as to why they enjoy WWE over AEW but I find WWE's "storytelling" to often be basic, if not downright stupid even under Triple H. Very well said.
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Post by finnbalor1 on Feb 8, 2023 13:11:37 GMT -5
I think the bar is definitely very, very low for WWE. The Bloodline storyline is a very good, occasionally great, wrestling angle; that being said, I take great umbrage when people say it's one of the greatest angles of all time. I don't even think it's one of the greatest angles in WWE history (though certainly one of their better angels in a decade+). What makes me chuckle is that the angle likely won't get the big payoff of Sami beating Roman at WrestleMania! Everything else occurring in the company is average-to-below average IMO. I don't care about Judgment Day, I don't care about the Becky/Damage Control stuff, I REALLY don't care whatever the hell Bray Wyatt is up to, and most of the Triple H returns have either been disappointing (Gargano, Kross) or people taking up television time that just doesn't do a thing for me (Hit Row w/o Swerve, Dexter Lumis). Gargano is exactly a good example of what I'm talking about: imagine if AEW brought in Gargano and had him doing what he's doing in WWE? They'd be (rightfully) criticized. I think WWE is running a hot, well-received angle and everything else is just there. People keep citing "storytelling" as to why they enjoy WWE over AEW but I find WWE's "storytelling" to often be basic, if not downright stupid even under Triple H. What angles is AEW running at this exact time that is that much better then anything WWE is putting out besides taking the Bloodline out of the equation? Love both companies but I don't see any special angles ATM that's making Dynamite a must see show over WWE either. Cody coming home and going for his dream,Judgment Day,Theory becoming a star right in front of us,GUNTHER absolutely crushing it as IC title holder, Lesnar/Lashley etc are pretty big things going on RN in WWE. Tbh I'm not a huge fan of all those things but most fans are.
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Post by ICW on Feb 8, 2023 13:27:43 GMT -5
I think the bar is definitely very, very low for WWE. The Bloodline storyline is a very good, occasionally great, wrestling angle; that being said, I take great umbrage when people say it's one of the greatest angles of all time. I don't even think it's one of the greatest angles in WWE history (though certainly one of their better angels in a decade+). What makes me chuckle is that the angle likely won't get the big payoff of Sami beating Roman at WrestleMania! Everything else occurring in the company is average-to-below average IMO. I don't care about Judgment Day, I don't care about the Becky/Damage Control stuff, I REALLY don't care whatever the hell Bray Wyatt is up to, and most of the Triple H returns have either been disappointing (Gargano, Kross) or people taking up television time that just doesn't do a thing for me (Hit Row w/o Swerve, Dexter Lumis). Gargano is exactly a good example of what I'm talking about: imagine if AEW brought in Gargano and had him doing what he's doing in WWE? They'd be (rightfully) criticized. I think WWE is running a hot, well-received angle and everything else is just there. People keep citing "storytelling" as to why they enjoy WWE over AEW but I find WWE's "storytelling" to often be basic, if not downright stupid even under Triple H. What angles is AEW running at this exact time that is that much better then anything WWE is putting out besides taking the Bloodline out of the equation? Love both companies but I don't see any special angles ATM that's making Dynamite a must see show over WWE either. Cody coming home and going for his dream,Judgment Day,Theory becoming a star right in front of us,GUNTHER absolutely crushing it as IC title holder, Lesnar/Lashley etc are pretty big things going on RN in WWE. Tbh I'm not a huge fan of all those things but most fans are. Personally speaking: I'm not someone that needs "weekly episodic/dramatic storytelling" when it comes to professional wrestling. I'm perfectly content with Bryan Danielson having weekly dream matches as a build to an Iron Man match against MJF, the TNT title being booked like an old-school Television Title with Samoa Joe/Darby/Wardlow involved, The AEW Originals vs. Outsiders angle, the Elite defending their Trios titles, etc. I think the Acclaimed/Gunn stuff is even a little too WWE-lite for me; that being said, it's why AEW is an alternative to what WWE offers. One of my best friends is a lapsed fan and he told me he prefers a 2-hour wrestling show to open with a 30-minute promo/interview segment as opposed to a hot match and that's why he can't get into AEW. Some people prefer a narrative driven product even if the stories are blah or bad, which I have no issue with.
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Post by finnbalor1 on Feb 8, 2023 13:43:39 GMT -5
What angles is AEW running at this exact time that is that much better then anything WWE is putting out besides taking the Bloodline out of the equation? Love both companies but I don't see any special angles ATM that's making Dynamite a must see show over WWE either. Cody coming home and going for his dream,Judgment Day,Theory becoming a star right in front of us,GUNTHER absolutely crushing it as IC title holder, Lesnar/Lashley etc are pretty big things going on RN in WWE. Tbh I'm not a huge fan of all those things but most fans are. Personally speaking: I'm not someone that needs "weekly episodic/dramatic storytelling" when it comes to professional wrestling. I'm perfectly content with Bryan Danielson having weekly dream matches as a build to an Iron Man match against MJF, the TNT title being booked like an old-school Television Title with Samoa Joe/Darby/Wardlow involved, The AEW Originals vs. Outsiders angle, the Elite defending their Trios titles, etc. I think the Acclaimed/Gunn stuff is even a little too WWE-lite for me; that being said, it's why AEW is an alternative to what WWE offers. One of my best friends is a lapsed fan and he told me he prefers a 2-hour wrestling show to open with a 30-minute promo/interview segment as opposed to a hot match and that's why he can't get into AEW. Some people prefer a narrative driven product even if the stories are blah or bad, which I have no issue with. Perfectly put and sorry if I came off rude there,after I read it back,it didn't really say what I was trying to get at lol. I'm not gonna make this a AEW/WWE thing,we already have enough of that and sorry for already going in that direction with my comment and I'm A huge fan of a lot things you mentioned. I'm just trying to say WWE has that too,I don't think I can remember the last bad Rollins match,the mid titles meaning something again after all that time under Vince,Rhea on a f*cking tear in the women's division etc. I think its just like you said and many has,it all comes down to what you prefer. Personally I'm A fan of the sports and entertainment parts of each show but can understand why some people not a fan of a stalker carrying a axe around not talking or seeing guys like MJF taking on a guy like Takesh*ta because they don't think he deserves the shot because he has some Ls on his record but I love both things. As a fan of both,I think both gets to harsh of criticisms from the other side most of the time. I don't think either gets off easier then the other,its just more WWE fans shooting on other products because of the amount of time they've been around,they've built the bigger fan base
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Post by ICW on Feb 8, 2023 14:14:48 GMT -5
Personally speaking: I'm not someone that needs "weekly episodic/dramatic storytelling" when it comes to professional wrestling. I'm perfectly content with Bryan Danielson having weekly dream matches as a build to an Iron Man match against MJF, the TNT title being booked like an old-school Television Title with Samoa Joe/Darby/Wardlow involved, The AEW Originals vs. Outsiders angle, the Elite defending their Trios titles, etc. I think the Acclaimed/Gunn stuff is even a little too WWE-lite for me; that being said, it's why AEW is an alternative to what WWE offers. One of my best friends is a lapsed fan and he told me he prefers a 2-hour wrestling show to open with a 30-minute promo/interview segment as opposed to a hot match and that's why he can't get into AEW. Some people prefer a narrative driven product even if the stories are blah or bad, which I have no issue with. Perfectly put and sorry if I came off rude there,after I read it back,it didn't really say what I was trying to get at lol. I'm not gonna make this a AEW/WWE thing,we already have enough of that and sorry for already going in that direction with my comment and I'm A huge fan of a lot things you mentioned. I'm just trying to say WWE has that too,I don't think I can remember the last bad Rollins match,the mid titles meaning something again after all that time under Vince,Rhea on a f*cking tear in the women's division etc. I think its just like you said and many has,it all comes down to what you prefer. Personally I'm A fan of the sports and entertainment parts of each show but can understand why some people not a fan of a stalker carrying a axe around not talking or seeing guys like MJF taking on a guy like Takesh*ta because they don't think he deserves the shot because he has some Ls on his record but I love both things. As a fan of both,I think both gets to harsh of criticisms from the other side most of the time. I don't think either gets off easier then the other,its just more WWE fans shooting on other products because of the amount of time they've been around,they've built the bigger fan base No worries at all! You did not come across as rude in the slightest! I think there's part of me that will always look back at my time as a WWE fondly (I grew up with it during the Attitude Era, checked out from 2009-2014, came back from 2014-2017 and never looked back) but the alternative just grabs me far more than what they're doing. I'm glad people who have stuck with them are really enjoying this period and there's absolutely no denying their success in the here and now. It just isn't for me and I do stand by my statement that the bar is very low for them (but who cares what I think lol)
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Feb 8, 2023 18:24:01 GMT -5
What angles is AEW running at this exact time that is that much better then anything WWE is putting out besides taking the Bloodline out of the equation? Love both companies but I don't see any special angles ATM that's making Dynamite a must see show over WWE either. Cody coming home and going for his dream,Judgment Day,Theory becoming a star right in front of us,GUNTHER absolutely crushing it as IC title holder, Lesnar/Lashley etc are pretty big things going on RN in WWE. Tbh I'm not a huge fan of all those things but most fans are. Personally speaking: I'm not someone that needs "weekly episodic/dramatic storytelling" when it comes to professional wrestling. I'm perfectly content with Bryan Danielson having weekly dream matches as a build to an Iron Man match against MJF, the TNT title being booked like an old-school Television Title with Samoa Joe/Darby/Wardlow involved, The AEW Originals vs. Outsiders angle, the Elite defending their Trios titles, etc. I think the Acclaimed/Gunn stuff is even a little too WWE-lite for me; that being said, it's why AEW is an alternative to what WWE offers. One of my best friends is a lapsed fan and he told me he prefers a 2-hour wrestling show to open with a 30-minute promo/interview segment as opposed to a hot match and that's why he can't get into AEW. Some people prefer a narrative driven product even if the stories are blah or bad, which I have no issue with. I understand your opinion but what I love about the WWE formula is that PPV's are where the big fights happen and the weekly shows develop and further the feuds that lead to them. I love wrestling but every match should have a reason for happening. You can't just throw 2 random guys in the ring and expect people to care. I also believe that less is more and having Bryan wrestle every week against random people is just tiring. AEW give way too much stuff away for free and I know Tony Khan wants his own product but surely he understands how important storytelling is when it comes to wrestling.
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Post by ICW on Feb 8, 2023 19:48:30 GMT -5
Personally speaking: I'm not someone that needs "weekly episodic/dramatic storytelling" when it comes to professional wrestling. I'm perfectly content with Bryan Danielson having weekly dream matches as a build to an Iron Man match against MJF, the TNT title being booked like an old-school Television Title with Samoa Joe/Darby/Wardlow involved, The AEW Originals vs. Outsiders angle, the Elite defending their Trios titles, etc. I think the Acclaimed/Gunn stuff is even a little too WWE-lite for me; that being said, it's why AEW is an alternative to what WWE offers. One of my best friends is a lapsed fan and he told me he prefers a 2-hour wrestling show to open with a 30-minute promo/interview segment as opposed to a hot match and that's why he can't get into AEW. Some people prefer a narrative driven product even if the stories are blah or bad, which I have no issue with. I understand your opinion but what I love about the WWE formula is that PPV's are where the big fights happen and the weekly shows develop and further the feuds that lead to them. I love wrestling but every match should have a reason for happening. You can't just throw 2 random guys in the ring and expect people to care. I also believe that less is more and having Bryan wrestle every week against random people is just tiring. AEW give way too much stuff away for free and I know Tony Khan wants his own product but surely he understands how important storytelling is when it comes to wrestling. I just think this is a mischaracterization of the product; for example, every single match occurring on Dynamite tonight has some sort of build or story to it. It's not a card of randomly thrown-together matches that don't impact what occurs in the coming weeks. I also find WWE's PLEs to be mostly a chore to get through; again, just my opinion but I can't get invested in stories if I find them to be meh. I couldn't care less about Dom Mysterio, Otis potentially joining the Maximum Male Models, Bray Wyatt's lore, etc. It just doesn't grab me in the slightest. I don't think I'll ever go back to WWE and that's okay. They're a machine that will keep on running with me.
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Post by k5 on Feb 12, 2023 11:12:42 GMT -5
in some ways yes, some no. even when a segment by wwe is stupid and trivial, it will be produced and executed at a high level. they polish turds really well.
aew, on the other hand, while not such a total cringe factory with characters and storyline, can have segments kind of fall apart and not be filmed (camera cuts etc) as cleanly as it could.
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voicesinmyhead
Main Eventer
Joined on: Mar 4, 2009 19:21:00 GMT -5
Posts: 1,486
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Feb 12, 2023 20:09:31 GMT -5
I think we need to consider the fact that AEW only has 4 major pay per views a year so they need to put on big-time shows and matches more often on weekly television. WWE has a PLE every month so they can use their weekly shows to build to bigger matches and moments on the bigger shows. Both companies have a completely different model on how they run their shows and build to bigger matches.
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Post by shanieomaniac on Feb 18, 2023 16:46:59 GMT -5
I stand with the people who say that AEW and WWE are two different products for two different audiences. There's some crossover but there's many many people who watch one and refuse to even acknowledge the other, as seen here.
That said, as far as "Is the bar lower for WWE", I don't know if that's strictly fair to say as much as (as mentioned) they *are* the bar. By default of being the biggest, all other wrestling programs are trying to keep up with *them*. AEW is doing so by running as far in the other direction as possible and then building their own wall to ascend every week. And outside of AEW, not much else has enough traction to even compete.
That said, one of the biggest issues I have with WWE right now (vs AEW) is that AEW's roster is way too large. It's too large for the timeslots they have and what they are trying to produce. So many people get lost in the shuffle, even though they're putting on good shows on a regular basis. Meanwhile, WWE has a reasonable sized Roster... and barely any of it is getting attention. The Bloodline storyline is a massive case of "All your eggs in one basket" to the point of I'm terrified that one ill-timed injury would derail the entire company at this point. You watch the shows and it isn't even subtle how little the WWE cares about people not involved with that storyline. And I'm saying that as a diehard Sami Zayn fan. I have a friend who just got into the WWE within the past month or so and was watching the show with me over the phone last night. Her exact comment was "Why are the commentators only talking about Sami? There's a whole a** wrestling match going on and they don't even care!" It's worrisome and, looping around to "is the bar for WWE low," I think the standard of product for WWE was crap for so long that now that the WWE is producing a whole one (1) quality storyline, everything else has been cast aside in favor of it to the detriment of the rest of the roster.
Sorry, that was a bit of a rant, but I feel it needed said.
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