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Post by JokerFC on Jul 28, 2023 6:06:14 GMT -5
It's crazy to me that Shawn was gone just 4 months after Bret. If only Bret had of stayed he would have eventually been free from that pillhead. Yup....I think that sticks in his craw too. But as many have speculated? We don't know how serious michaels was injured. There are a fair few that say it's no coincidence he returned in 2002 as his contract was coming due & could have returned much sooner. |
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Post by cordless2016 on Jul 28, 2023 6:32:27 GMT -5
It's crazy to me that Shawn was gone just 4 months after Bret. If only Bret had of stayed he would have eventually been free from that pillhead. Yup....I think that sticks in his craw too. But as many have speculated? We don't know how serious michaels was injured. There are a fair few that say it's no coincidence he returned in 2002 as his contract was coming due & could have returned much sooner. I remember Meltzer and others at the time reporting during those 4 years that Michael’s could have come back much sooner than he did. Nobody questioned the seriousness of his back injury. The guy was wrecked and needed time off. But by most accounts at the time it wasn’t his back that kept him out for 4.5 years; it was his life choices that shelved him for most of that time. I don’t agree with anyone that says Bret wouldn’t have fit in the WWF in 1998/9. Would he have been at the very top of the card like he had previously? No, it was Austin’s time. But I still see him being a major player. Hell, Vince aparently was trying hard to bring in Flair at one point in 1998 to be his corporate champ. I could easily see Bret fill that role before in-storyline Vince dumps him for The Rock. At worst, I don’t see Bret remaining in the WWF in 1998 being any worse than his run in 1995 where he was feuding with dentists and pirates. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2023 10:45:16 GMT -5
There's no way Vince couldn't afford him. He just wasn't as hard up in 97 seen he had options & decided to leverage Brets big WCW offer against it. Also Montreal wasn't a work. Do people genuinely believe that 25 years later the people involved & in the top tier in the immediate aftermath are still keeping it a secret? Cornette, Ross etc? Nah. My biggest gripe with all this was no way did it just dawn on vince in September about this. He had to have known & STILL put the title on him at Summerslam. in 96/97 wwf was getting KILLED in the ratings, according to meltzer sponsers werre jumping ship to wcw and it had vince worried BIG TIME and again, other wrestlers heard about what bret got and everyone was talking more pay and bigger contracts. vince couldnt have that! many hate meltzer, but i got his newsletters from 1990 to 2005 and he was VERY spot on with all his stuff and he even says money was the main issue. vince gavbe bret that contract to keep him and many stars were heading to wcw (hall, nash, luger, perfect, piper, etc) but thenrealized he paid bret too much not sure why everyone finds this so hard to believe. other factos like vince seeing dx, austin as the NEW stars helped play a part, biut it was & $$$ at the helm of the decision had bret took the half pay offer, he would still have been in wwf |
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Post by JokerFC on Jul 28, 2023 11:38:40 GMT -5
There's no way Vince couldn't afford him. He just wasn't as hard up in 97 seen he had options & decided to leverage Brets big WCW offer against it. Also Montreal wasn't a work. Do people genuinely believe that 25 years later the people involved & in the top tier in the immediate aftermath are still keeping it a secret? Cornette, Ross etc? Nah. My biggest gripe with all this was no way did it just dawn on vince in September about this. He had to have known & STILL put the title on him at Summerslam. in 96/97 wwf was getting KILLED in the ratings, according to meltzer sponsers werre jumping ship to wcw and it had vince worried BIG TIME and again, other wrestlers heard about what bret got and everyone was talking more pay and bigger contracts. vince couldnt have that! many hate meltzer, but i got his newsletters from 1990 to 2005 and he was VERY spot on with all his stuff and he even says money was the main issue. vince gavbe bret that contract to keep him and many stars were heading to wcw (hall, nash, luger, perfect, piper, etc) but thenrealized he paid bret too much not sure why everyone finds this so hard to believe. other factos like vince seeing dx, austin as the NEW stars helped play a part, biut it was & $$$ at the helm of the decision had bret took the half pay offer, he would still have been in wwf Yeah ok. I still say it's crap |
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Post by MKSavage on Jul 28, 2023 15:35:01 GMT -5
There's no way Vince couldn't afford him. He just wasn't as hard up in 97 seen he had options & decided to leverage Brets big WCW offer against it. Also Montreal wasn't a work. Do people genuinely believe that 25 years later the people involved & in the top tier in the immediate aftermath are still keeping it a secret? Cornette, Ross etc? Nah. My biggest gripe with all this was no way did it just dawn on vince in September about this. He had to have known & STILL put the title on him at Summerslam. in 96/97 wwf was getting KILLED in the ratings, according to meltzer sponsers werre jumping ship to wcw and it had vince worried BIG TIME and again, other wrestlers heard about what bret got and everyone was talking more pay and bigger contracts. vince couldnt have that! many hate meltzer, but i got his newsletters from 1990 to 2005 and he was VERY spot on with all his stuff and he even says money was the main issue. vince gavbe bret that contract to keep him and many stars were heading to wcw (hall, nash, luger, perfect, piper, etc) but thenrealized he paid bret too much not sure why everyone finds this so hard to believe. other factos like vince seeing dx, austin as the NEW stars helped play a part, biut it was & $$$ at the helm of the decision
had bret took the half pay offer, he would still have been in wwf People aren't saying that the money Vince was paying him wasn't an issue, what people are saying is they don't believe it when Vince says he couldn't afford the contract. No doubt Vince regretted the contract, but him saying he couldn't pay Bret the money in the contract seems ridiculous especially with the amount of money he paid Tyson shortly after, and the contract he offered Warrior one month after the 1997 Survivor Series. Also, yes Bret could have taken a pay cut, but asking him to cut his pay in half is something I don't think anyone would do, especially if there was no guarantee that he would still get the entirety of his contract paid in full. And, if I'm not mistaken, didn't that offer come after Bret already agreed to sign with WCW? |
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Post by JokerFC on Jul 28, 2023 15:42:46 GMT -5
in 96/97 wwf was getting KILLED in the ratings, according to meltzer sponsers werre jumping ship to wcw and it had vince worried BIG TIME and again, other wrestlers heard about what bret got and everyone was talking more pay and bigger contracts. vince couldnt have that! many hate meltzer, but i got his newsletters from 1990 to 2005 and he was VERY spot on with all his stuff and he even says money was the main issue. vince gavbe bret that contract to keep him and many stars were heading to wcw (hall, nash, luger, perfect, piper, etc) but thenrealized he paid bret too much not sure why everyone finds this so hard to believe. other factos like vince seeing dx, austin as the NEW stars helped play a part, biut it was & $$$ at the helm of the decision
had bret took the half pay offer, he would still have been in wwf People aren't saying that the money Vince was paying him wasn't an issue, what people are saying is they don't believe it when Vince says he couldn't afford the contract. No doubt Vince regretted the contract, but him saying he couldn't pay Bret the money in the contract seems ridiculous especially with the amount of money he paid Tyson shortly after, and the contract he offered Warrior one month after the 1997 Survivor Series. Also, yes Bret could have taken a pay cut, but asking him to cut his pay in half is something I don't think anyone would do, especially if there was no guarantee that he would still get the entirety of his contract paid in full. And, if I'm not mistaken, didn't that offer come after Bret already agreed to sign with WCW? Yes great point about the Warrior....that's 100% nailed on too. Bingo |
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Post by ASR (therockisback) on Jul 28, 2023 16:20:46 GMT -5
It was never that Vince couldn’t pay him. I’ve never bought that considering he paid Tyson millions a few months later. Vince was desperate in 1996. He needed Bret back badly. Bret took his time following WM12 to make a decision (a well deserved sabbatical for Bret). Bret was also negotiating with WCW at the time. Bret himself said he used it only to help improve his offer from Vince (totally Bret’s right as a contractor to get the best offer he could). Despite Bret having every right to negotiate with anyone, from Vince’s perspective, it probably felt like a betrayal when his company was near bankruptcy. And we know from decades of reports how much Vince holds a grudge. Fast forward to a year later, and while the WWF is still struggling, they are on the upswing. Austin has emerged as one of the hottest things in the industry. DX is pushing boundaries. Taker has evolved his character. And the Heart Foundation have proven to be strong heels to Austin’s character. By mid-1997, Vince wasn’t so desperate any longer. We know from reports that he holds grudges, and Bret’s contract was likely a sticking point for him. If anything, he likely viewed it as Bret getting one over on him. Throw in Bret and Shawn’s issues, and the decision likely wasn’t hard for Vince to come back to Bret’s contract. The business was getting edgier, and Shawn Michaels fit that more than Bret. Also doesn’t help that HBK was much younger than Bret either. No, I’ve never bought it as being a work. The screwjob was legit. However, I’ve never bought the idea that Vince couldn’t afford him any longer. Vince offered Bret a half-assed contract right before he left, and paying Tyson truck loads of money months later plays into this. In 1996, Vince was desperate. In 1997, he wasn’t as desperate, and Bret’s legit feud with HBK didn’t help matters either. Yeah, I don't believe he couldn't pay him, I think he worried that with Bret's contract, other upcoming wrestlers would want the same, or more. Plus, I think Vince felt in late 1997, that he had a crop of guys he could use going forward and be in the same place. Him giving Tyson a huge pay day for a handful of appearances and offering Warrior a big 5-year contract in December of 1997, proves money wasn't the issue. I think Vince had a choice, keep Bret at a high price, or go younger with Austin, Rock, Taker, HBK, HHH, Mick, etc. at a lower price. And, if he knew at that time that Austin would be his guy going forward, with the Rock starting to rise quickly, he probably knew that Austin would want a deal just like Bret's when it came time to renegotiate, which means he would have two guys on the payroll making $1.5 a year which probably would have made it harder to re-sign other guys. With that being said, I think Bret could have worked in the Attitude Era, he could still work in the ring, and he could have been used as someone who really hated the direction that wrestling was going and wanting to take wrestling back to where it used to be. I've always felt that Bret should have been the one to pass the torch to Austin at WM14. This would have given Austin that big win over Bret. From there, I could see the Hart Foundation really feuding with the new, babyface DX. After that, I always felt that Bret and Owen could have become tag team champions and had a nice run. That would have been the last hurrah for Bret, a tag team run with his brother, Owen. That probably would have been around the time that Bret's in-ring part of his contract would have ended; he would have moved into being an agent from there. Bret vs Austin would have been huge at WM14... a potential classic rematch right there |
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Post by JokerFC on Jul 28, 2023 16:21:31 GMT -5
Yeah, I don't believe he couldn't pay him, I think he worried that with Bret's contract, other upcoming wrestlers would want the same, or more. Plus, I think Vince felt in late 1997, that he had a crop of guys he could use going forward and be in the same place. Him giving Tyson a huge pay day for a handful of appearances and offering Warrior a big 5-year contract in December of 1997, proves money wasn't the issue. I think Vince had a choice, keep Bret at a high price, or go younger with Austin, Rock, Taker, HBK, HHH, Mick, etc. at a lower price. And, if he knew at that time that Austin would be his guy going forward, with the Rock starting to rise quickly, he probably knew that Austin would want a deal just like Bret's when it came time to renegotiate, which means he would have two guys on the payroll making $1.5 a year which probably would have made it harder to re-sign other guys. With that being said, I think Bret could have worked in the Attitude Era, he could still work in the ring, and he could have been used as someone who really hated the direction that wrestling was going and wanting to take wrestling back to where it used to be. I've always felt that Bret should have been the one to pass the torch to Austin at WM14. This would have given Austin that big win over Bret. From there, I could see the Hart Foundation really feuding with the new, babyface DX. After that, I always felt that Bret and Owen could have become tag team champions and had a nice run. That would have been the last hurrah for Bret, a tag team run with his brother, Owen. That probably would have been around the time that Bret's in-ring part of his contract would have ended; he would have moved into being an agent from there. Bret vs Austin would have been huge at WM14... a potential classic rematch right there Yup....heck of a backstory |
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Post by ASR (therockisback) on Jul 28, 2023 16:23:59 GMT -5
Bret vs Austin would have been huge at WM14... a potential classic rematch right there Yup....heck of a backstory This time Austin would have finally won... those guys always worked great together I still loved Austin vs HBK but man Austin vs Bret was always special |
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Post by JokerFC on Jul 28, 2023 16:39:00 GMT -5
Yup....heck of a backstory This time Austin would have finally won... those guys always worked great together I still loved Austin vs HBK but man Austin vs Bret was always special Agreed it would have had crazy heat on the run in |
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