TWJT
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Post by TWJT on Feb 16, 2024 9:51:36 GMT -5
Like the Continental Classic, the stiff Japanese matches, the Japanese workers, the CMLL guys, even perhaps down to some of the stuff The Bucks and Omega do. Is AEW too niche? I personally enjoy all the aforementioned stuff, but I don't see a company competing with the WWE that focuses on all of that, plus indy concepts and ideas, etc. Could you imagine the cool kids in school getting together and talking about Moxley's match with a CMLL guy or Danielson's technical classic in the Continental Classic? Technical guys like Danielson and Benoit can be booked in ways that appeal to mainstream fans, we saw that at WrestleMania XX and WrestleMania XXX. But it has to be done a very certain way. Even when the WWF used AAA guys in the '97 Rumble, they didn't book those folks the same way AEW does. Same with the WWF light heavyweight division (sometimes the E also underpushed and underutilized these types of workers, like TAKA, Essa Rios, etc., but that's a different discussion). I guess in the end Tony doesn't care, because he has the money not to care. But wouldn't he like to try to find a way to make the things he loves appeal to mainstream audiences? It can be done, but he has to change the way he does things. Is AEW too niche?
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kinnikuman
Main Eventer
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Post by kinnikuman on Feb 16, 2024 10:18:51 GMT -5
For some wrestling fans yes. You can see it in this very forum. But we're all entitled to an opinion. And AEW is entitled to promote themselves how they want to.
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X-27
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Joined on: Jan 28, 2019 22:28:39 GMT -5
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Post by X-27 on Feb 16, 2024 10:28:14 GMT -5
I'll just copy and paste what I mentioned the other day in another thread.
I personally love how AEW isn't watched by everyone and is it's own niche thing. The same way I'm glad some of my favorite bands aren't huge bands and aren't listened to by everyone.
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Post by K5 on Feb 16, 2024 11:19:16 GMT -5
no. gcw is even more niche and i believe if they dropped the deathmatches could be making serious ground as a company
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Post by TKO Propagandist on Feb 16, 2024 11:27:24 GMT -5
I don't mind the long matches & tournaments unless it's some dufus like Alan Angels going 50 with 50 Kenny Omega. In what universe is that not a 2 minute squash. Or how about bald & bankrupt bowling ball long Jon Silver & his long haired friend getting tag title shots on pay per view. Then it's a big problem because ye have folk that never get wins or are barely even featured on TV in big positions on Dynamite or worse PPV.
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Post by Mr Angry Cena on Feb 16, 2024 11:29:13 GMT -5
Yes.
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Post by IRS on Feb 16, 2024 12:51:35 GMT -5
I honestly feel like they have a bit of an identity crisis with how niche they are compared to the amount of niche elements they present.
They have their core audience at this point, which may fluctuate slightly, but will always pretty much stay in the same parameters. And 90% of the audience are smarks. However, there are varying levels to it. There's the subsection that's mainly ex-WWE fans or fans of both companies (likely the overwhelming majority), and then there's the full-on hardcore indie and puroreso nerds like Khan himself. And a lot of Kahn's booking feels like he's trying to prove his hardcore smark cred, like the G1 clone tourney; except it has to be watered down to a degree for the wider audience, so it loses a lot of the luster of something like the actual G1 and feels diluted.
So yeah... a lot of times it feels like Kahn is playing to the smallest sub-section of the audience, but doesn't do it particularly well, and it kinda drags the product overall down.
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kinnikuman
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Post by kinnikuman on Feb 16, 2024 16:24:30 GMT -5
There's a reason TK books they way he does when he himself said his favorite wrestling growing up was the original ECW.
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Post by ASR (therockisback) on Feb 16, 2024 17:19:43 GMT -5
AEW gotta switch it up a lil bit tbh. Overall its still good but it can be much better.
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kinnikuman
Main Eventer
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Post by kinnikuman on Feb 16, 2024 18:19:20 GMT -5
AEW gotta switch it up a lil bit tbh. Overall its still good but it can be much better. What could make it better for you?
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Post by ¡Twist Of 45 and 47! on Feb 16, 2024 21:06:21 GMT -5
Yes. They cater to small groups of fans, mainly the hardcore internet fans, rather than the majority. They promote the cookie cutter Japanese wrestlers as megastars. Sure they're huge in Japan but not to a US audience where only three people have heard of them. I get that AEW is promoted more towards adults, hence the constant bloody matches and swearing but is there really that big of a community that are into broken glass spots, excessive amounts of items wrapped in barbed wire, drinking blood etc?
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Post by bWo on Feb 16, 2024 23:38:55 GMT -5
There's a reason TK books they way he does when he himself said his favorite wrestling growing up was the original ECW. ECW had a mix of great feuds based around nothing more than great matches (Mike Awesome vs Masato Tanaka) and great feuds with compelling stories (Raven vs Dreamer). Tony Khan has wrestlers who can have great matches but Tony Khan isn't capable of coming up with compelling stories. If Paul Heyman had Tony Khan's wallet in 1995 the wrestling world would have been worshiping the tribe of extreme. Creativity and continuity are not Tony's strong point and he books himself into a twisted mess trying to do what he can't. How many screwdriver stabbings, lights off and on debuts, and factions have we seen in 5 years? The "Check Engine" light is on and he refuses to go to the dealer. He watched wrestling growing up, bought/created a wrestling company as an adult, and then appointed himself as "booker." Serious question. Do you think Tony would hire someone to be the General Manager of the Jacksonville Jaguars if their only experience was they watched Monday Night Football? If you were a Jaguars fan would you be cool with that? Would the players be cool with that? Ultimately he can do whatever he wants. It's his money. When people say there is obvious room for improvement though it's because he does blatantly stupid things that hinder growth and success. That doesn't mean he has to become WWE, it means he could stop doing nonsensical things like starting and stopping people. It's very simple. Push them or don't. Takecrapa, Hobbs, Wardlow and Starks are 4 examples of guys who have been turned on and off more times than the toy in grandma's nightstand. It's like Tony has an idea and then forgets that idea as soon as he comes up with another idea. And then 3 weeks later he'll remember that original idea and run with it until he comes up with another idea and forgets that original idea again. The best thing Tony Khan could do is give Heyman a blank check when/if the opportunity arises.
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theberb217
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Apr 11, 2020 3:53:37 GMT -5
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Post by theberb217 on Feb 17, 2024 0:11:26 GMT -5
100%. That's why their audience will never grow. That's why doing live shows country wide dosent work. It's an indy promotion with a big budget.
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kinnikuman
Main Eventer
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Post by kinnikuman on Feb 17, 2024 10:16:05 GMT -5
I just don't get why not having compelling stories is a bad thing. I know I'm in the minority. But I grew up on JCP/NWA in the 80s. Yes, there were stories. But nothing like today. Then I switched over to ECW and saw banger after banger. That's what I watch for. I never watched the F growing up and was too busy with life during the Ratings Wars and Attitude stuff ... which I know is when a lot of you grew up on wrestling. I think it boils down to what one thinks wrestling should be, or at least what they grew up on.
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voicesinmyhead
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Post by voicesinmyhead on Feb 17, 2024 10:36:00 GMT -5
I just don't get why not having compelling stories is a bad thing. I know I'm in the minority. But I grew up on JCP/NWA in the 80s. Yes, there were stories. But nothing like today. Then I switched over to ECW and saw banger after banger. That's what I watch for. I never watched the F growing up and was too busy with life during the Ratings Wars and Attitude stuff ... which I know is when a lot of you grew up on wrestling. I think it boils down to what one thinks wrestling should be, or at least what they grew up on. You must have watched ECW wrong because ECW was chock-full of stories. Some of the best feuds and story telling came from ECW. Not just random "bangers" as you like to call them. Pro wrestling has always been about telling stories. I don't think that part is up for debate. Random matches without a story can be fun but that also gets boring. If there is nothing compelling connecting your program on a week to week basis then what is the point. Think of old promotions without television. They had long term stories to keep fans attending the shows on a weekly basis. They needed to keep their fans invested in the characters and the stories. Without a program, the fans had no reason to attend the next show.
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kinnikuman
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Post by kinnikuman on Feb 17, 2024 12:02:55 GMT -5
Like I said, I'm in the minority. I'll take Omega/Ospreay doing five star bangers with no story over anything else. If I want story, I watch a drama on TV. I watch wrestling, you know, for the pro wrestling. I'm 48. When I grew up on JCP, sure you had heels and faces. But there were not deep storylines. Guys today in their 20s and 30s grew up on DX and the nWo ... so that's your view of wrestling. And that's fine. AEW is trying to cater to both audiences but I guess they're not doing enough for the story side of the coin. Thus the weekly complaints. But that's what I'm arguing. That's not AEW. You can't be unhappy that they're not giving you what you want. You have to accept them for what they are.
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Post by hitmancmedge on Feb 17, 2024 14:57:44 GMT -5
Like I said, I'm in the minority. I'll take Omega/Ospreay doing five star bangers with no story over anything else. If I want story, I watch a drama on TV. I watch wrestling, you know, for the pro wrestling. I'm 48. When I grew up on JCP, sure you had heels and faces. But there were not deep storylines. Guys today in their 20s and 30s grew up on DX and the nWo ... so that's your view of wrestling. And that's fine. AEW is trying to cater to both audiences but I guess they're not doing enough for the story side of the coin. Thus the weekly complaints. But that's what I'm arguing. That's not AEW. You can't be unhappy that they're not giving you what you want. You have to accept them for what they are. I think there is ten easy things they could be doing to serve the audience that wants more story, explanation and not compromise the in ring. 1. Vignettes for debuting talent. Wardlow came off like a big star initially because of vignettes but they really haven’t done that since. Even if it’s something like showing some highlights from Komander in Mexico with a line or two from him. That’s it. Don’t just put the guy on tv and have him lose. It doesn’t do anything for him but paint him as unimportant to a portion of the audience. 2. By all accounts Tony is still the Booker of everything, that’s just too much for one man. Give some of the lower card to a few other guys, give ring of honor to another team so they can start giving some of these young guys, project guys some story, a direction. Too Many guys have no momentum/don’t mean anything cause they only show up to job or pop up on ROH to beat an enhancement talent. 3. Recap videos, not all the time but take 60 seconds every few weeks to recap a big feud. 4. Give the special guests, and guys from outside promotions a 30 second highlight package or a quick promo. A large majority online seem to not care about this CMLL feud cause they haven’t made their intentions clear or why they are here. 5. Go back to making the decisions characters make, make sense. 6. Again goes back to handing off some booking, but stop taking these major acts off tv for weeks at a time then back for 2-3 weeks then off for weeks. Can be good to get acts off tv once in awhile but there is a big group of guys who always feel like their momentum is stifled because tk has too much to book. 7. Get a social media manager and get to tk to see that his social media presence has damaged his company in the eyes of many. 8. Find a way to try and cut tickets prices a big, do family four packs etc. Go back to doing the meet n greets in cities before the show to type it up. People are admitting the prices are too high and they aren’t aware they are coming. 9. When Kenny Omega comes back, get him back in the main event scene. He is a non wwe guy that a large majority of the fan base see as a big deal, that has spent a large part since losing the belt in the mid card and tags. 10. Go back to long term booking, back to dropping seeds for feuds, pick like four guys that you want to be main event level in 1-2 years and start a trajectory for them. To me these are little changes that don’t completely change the identity of the company, that would make myself more invested and seen others online, podcasts etc say. It’s stuff that they honestly did way better when the company started.
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Post by LA Times on Feb 17, 2024 17:15:18 GMT -5
AEW is good wrestling but there is room for improvement. WWE is like eating a McDonald's cheeseburger. Its fine if you eat it once and millions of people eat it, but if thats all you ever eat, you will get sick and tired of it. AEW is like a grand buffet in comparison. You will find some styles of wrestling you like but there are also some things you dont like. There is something for everybody but at the same time you cant please everybody.
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Post by K5 on Feb 17, 2024 18:23:53 GMT -5
Like I said, I'm in the minority. I'll take Omega/Ospreay doing five star bangers with no story over anything else. If I want story, I watch a drama on TV. I watch wrestling, you know, for the pro wrestling. I'm 48. When I grew up on JCP, sure you had heels and faces. But there were not deep storylines. Guys today in their 20s and 30s grew up on DX and the nWo ... so that's your view of wrestling. And that's fine. AEW is trying to cater to both audiences but I guess they're not doing enough for the story side of the coin. Thus the weekly complaints. But that's what I'm arguing. That's not AEW. You can't be unhappy that they're not giving you what you want. You have to accept them for what they are. nope. just like you were incorrect to assert that ecw was made up of just senseless banger after banger, you're wrong in asserting JCP was not storyline driven. all of its major matches were. each top billed match at starccade 94 had reason and story.
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kinnikuman
Main Eventer
Joined on: Feb 6, 2020 21:42:25 GMT -5
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Post by kinnikuman on Feb 17, 2024 19:07:25 GMT -5
Like I said, I'm in the minority. I'll take Omega/Ospreay doing five star bangers with no story over anything else. If I want story, I watch a drama on TV. I watch wrestling, you know, for the pro wrestling. I'm 48. When I grew up on JCP, sure you had heels and faces. But there were not deep storylines. Guys today in their 20s and 30s grew up on DX and the nWo ... so that's your view of wrestling. And that's fine. AEW is trying to cater to both audiences but I guess they're not doing enough for the story side of the coin. Thus the weekly complaints. But that's what I'm arguing. That's not AEW. You can't be unhappy that they're not giving you what you want. You have to accept them for what they are. nope. just like you were incorrect to assert that ecw was made up of just senseless banger after banger, you're wrong in asserting JCP was not storyline driven. all of its major matches were. each top billed match at starccade 94 had reason and story. Show me where I said ECW didn't have story. Show me where I said JCP didn't. And you're a decade late with "94".
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