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Post by ASR (therockisback) on Jun 30, 2024 19:21:14 GMT -5
Really liked this entrance they gave em briefly. Really fit the new edge to his character Epic. They should have included it in the Smackdown - here comes the pain video game in 03.
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TheXtremisT
Main Eventer
10 Year Member
This is the way
Joined on: May 3, 2008 8:03:15 GMT -5
Posts: 3,930
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Post by TheXtremisT on Jul 1, 2024 8:05:22 GMT -5
Unmasking? A "good" idea. What it turned into though? Complete waste of potential.
Like others have said, it fizzled out very quickly afterward and they didn't know what to do with him. The Shane feud was interesting, but should have been with someone more credible. Why they didn't do anything much between him and RVD, I'll never understand. They had a habit of "punishing" RVD by not conforming to their politics so that may have been why.
But the whole problem is not the unmasking, it was the writing BEFORE and AFTER.
Why did they just do it without build, on a throwaway episode of Raw? They were like WCW, constantly trying to pop a rating back then.
Kane was still over big but they ruined him with that Katie Vick stuff - not only by the content, but the narrative that retcons Kane's backstory. That was completely asinine.
And I cringed so hard when he came back to a massive pop, only to do the "Kane-a-rooni". It was so out of character. It may have been funny at the time, but it made him look like a goof. Their intent was to humanise Kane and make him more relatable and likeable with the audience. Except he was already incredibly popular (look at 2001!) and the character was humanised as far as he should have been before that since he debuted in 1997. He needed better stories and feuds.
Ever since his debut, they were taxed with figuring out what to do with him. As per Prichard, Kane was only supposed to be around for a short while for a feud with the Undertaker. I took that as those were the only plans they had, not that he'd disappear from tv altogether. So after that, they had to figure out how to use him and I'd say up until and including the Tori - X-Pac story, they did pretty well considering. Even though there were times he was directionless.
Despite being quite over in 2001-2002, he was directionless until his Triple H feud in 2002. What did WWE do when a guy was directionless? Stick him in a tag-team or go back to the well from before. And they did both by sticking him with Taker.
Then he went back to being directionless after HHH and the RVD tag-team thing wasn't supposed to happen, so he was given nothing. So this unmasking was supposed to inject freshness into the character, which it did for a time but he went right back to having nothing again shortly after. Which proves all along - they didn't know what to do with him before the unmasking or long-term afterwards....
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Post by sonstuds on Jul 1, 2024 8:12:34 GMT -5
I can vibe with the whole "the scars were psychological" thing, but now I'm canonically believing that Kane has been wearing a long black wig for 5 years for some reason and I still can't get past that lol
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Post by cordless2016 on Jul 1, 2024 8:36:12 GMT -5
Unmasking? A "good" idea. What it turned into though? Complete waste of potential. Like others have said, it fizzled out very quickly afterward and they didn't know what to do with him. The Shane feud was interesting, but should have been with someone more credible. Why they didn't do anything much between him and RVD, I'll never understand. They had a habit of "punishing" RVD by not conforming to their politics so that may have been why. But the whole problem is not the unmasking, it was the writing BEFORE and AFTER. Why did they just do it without build, on a throwaway episode of Raw? They were like WCW, constantly trying to pop a rating back then. Kane was still over big but they ruined him with that Katie Vick stuff - not only by the content, but the narrative that retcons Kane's backstory. That was completely asinine. And I cringed so hard when he came back to a massive pop, only to do the "Kane-a-rooni". It was so out of character. It may have been funny at the time, but it made him look like a goof. Their intent was to humanise Kane and make him more relatable and likeable with the audience. Except he was already incredibly popular (look at 2001!) and the character was humanised as far as he should have been before that since he debuted in 1997. He needed better stories and feuds. Ever since his debut, they were taxed with figuring out what to do with him. As per Prichard, Kane was only supposed to be around for a short while for a feud with the Undertaker. I took that as those were the only plans they had, not that he'd disappear from tv altogether. So after that, they had to figure out how to use him and I'd say up until and including the Tori - X-Pac story, they did pretty well considering. Even though there were times he was directionless. Despite being quite over in 2001-2002, he was directionless until his Triple H feud in 2002. What did WWE do when a guy was directionless? Stick him in a tag-team or go back to the well from before. And they did both by sticking him with Taker. Then he went back to being directionless after HHH and the RVD tag-team thing wasn't supposed to happen, so he was given nothing. So this unmasking was supposed to inject freshness into the character, which it did for a time but he went right back to having nothing again shortly after. Which proves all along - they didn't know what to do with him before the unmasking or long-term afterwards.... It’s crazy to me that they couldn’t come up with anything despite how over he was during that initial 5 year run. The guy was jacked as hell (just now Vince liked em lol), could go in the ring, and had a unique look that nobody else came close to. Hell, even when he returned with the half mask in 2002 Meltzer said Kane was one of the companies biggest house show draws. I think it was Bruce who mentioned that Vince never felt that a “monster” needed the belt, hence Kane never really getting a legit world title run for nearly 15 years outside of his 1-day reign. If true, huge waste of the character. I get the main event being stacked from ‘99-01 so there wasn’t a ton of room for him, but by the brand split in 2002 the guy could have easily been the main-rival to HHH for the next few years. I’m a Goldberg fan, but considering he was only around for one year back then, I’d have given Kane the belt over Goldberg in 2003.
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Post by JokerFC on Jul 1, 2024 13:53:42 GMT -5
Bull from Vince...he never needed the belt but he needed 50 reigns as tag champs with s revolving door of partners & IC reigns 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Jul 1, 2024 16:42:23 GMT -5
IMO 02/03 Kane could've been the face of the company. He was over as hell during that period and a complete merch machine.
He didn't look scary anymore and the half mask allowed him to cut more promos. Putting him in a tag team with RVD was dumb, it was beneath Kane at that point, he should've been World Champion on Raw.
The whole unmasking was dumb. He went from one of the most mysterious guy in the company to being a bald guy in tights.
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Post by The Brain on Jul 1, 2024 16:49:06 GMT -5
Bull from Vince...he never needed the belt but he needed 50 reigns as tag champs with s revolving door of partners & IC reigns 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Man what pointless reigns they were... 2001- wins it from Trips then loses it a month later to Albert of all people 2002-Beats Jericho for it then loses it to Trips few weeks later with the belt then being retired for the next 7 months(Still boggles my mind the decision making on that deal)
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Jul 1, 2024 17:23:10 GMT -5
Bull from Vince...he never needed the belt but he needed 50 reigns as tag champs with s revolving door of partners & IC reigns 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Man what pointless reigns they were... 2001- wins it from Trips then loses it a month later to Albert of all people 2002-Beats Jericho for it then loses it to Trips few weeks later with the belt then being retired for the next 7 months(Still boggles my mind the decision making on that deal)One of the craziest Vince decisions ever. 2002 had the biggest roster ever and they thought it a good idea to get rid of all the mid card belts.
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Post by ASR (therockisback) on Jul 1, 2024 20:07:27 GMT -5
I still can't believe that Kane didn't win the World Title at least once or twice more. Just wow lol.
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Post by cordless2016 on Jul 1, 2024 22:45:13 GMT -5
Man what pointless reigns they were... 2001- wins it from Trips then loses it a month later to Albert of all people 2002-Beats Jericho for it then loses it to Trips few weeks later with the belt then being retired for the next 7 months(Still boggles my mind the decision making on that deal)One of the craziest Vince decisions ever. 2002 had the biggest roster ever and they thought it a good idea to get rid of all the mid card belts. It was crazy seeing HHH dominate any combo of Booker T, RVD, Kane, Jericho, Steiner, etc…every week during that seven month span. They all seemed to be stuck in neutral with no midcard title to go for and the WHC being a no-go with HHH dominating there. Outside of being fodder for HHH, they all cycled in and out of the tag title scene at random. Completely puzzling.
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Post by cordless2016 on Jul 1, 2024 22:49:19 GMT -5
Bull from Vince...he never needed the belt but he needed 50 reigns as tag champs with s revolving door of partners & IC reigns 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Man what pointless reigns they were... 2001- wins it from Trips then loses it a month later to Albert of all people 2002-Beats Jericho for it then loses it to Trips few weeks later with the belt then being retired for the next 7 months(Still boggles my mind the decision making on that deal) That loss to Albert is still a head scratcher. Kane got a huge rub winning the belt from HHH, only to loose it weeks later to a guy who was firmly in the lower-midcard. Kane and Albert had some fun hoss matches that month, but Albert was simply given the belt to eventually transition it to Edge (after Storm also had a “blink and you’ll miss it” run with the belt). I never understood why they just didn’t let Storm beat Kane if they wanted the belt to get to Edge, but I’m guessing Vince didn’t want a WCW-guy beating one of his stars.
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Post by JokerFC on Jul 2, 2024 10:38:44 GMT -5
Oh the IC hokey kokey of 2001 could easy be it's own thread 🤣🤣
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Post by cordless2016 on Jul 2, 2024 12:14:47 GMT -5
Oh the IC hokey kokey of 2001 could easy be it's own thread 🤣🤣 Benoit, Jericho, HHH, Hardy, HHH, Kane, Albert, Storm, Edge, Christian, Edge, Test, Edge You’d think Russo was booking this crap. I think it was in Jericho’s book that Vince/Bruce joked that he’d successfully defend his title against HHH…only to wait for Jericho to get excited before pulling the rug out and telling him that he’d again be putting over HHH.
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Jul 2, 2024 17:26:42 GMT -5
Oh the IC hokey kokey of 2001 could easy be it's own thread 🤣🤣 Benoit, Jericho, HHH, Hardy, HHH, Kane, Albert, Storm, Edge, Christian, Edge, Test, Edge You’d think Russo was booking this crap. I think it was in Jericho’s book that Vince/Bruce joked that he’d successfully defend his title against HHH…only to wait for Jericho to get excited before pulling the rug out and telling him that he’d again be putting over HHH. I did like HHH's IC titles reigns in 2001. It was weird and cool to see him hold that belt again, especially with The Game gimmick. Back then it was rare for a former World Champion to backtrack and win a mid card title.
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Post by cordless2016 on Jul 2, 2024 17:37:48 GMT -5
Benoit, Jericho, HHH, Hardy, HHH, Kane, Albert, Storm, Edge, Christian, Edge, Test, Edge You’d think Russo was booking this crap. I think it was in Jericho’s book that Vince/Bruce joked that he’d successfully defend his title against HHH…only to wait for Jericho to get excited before pulling the rug out and telling him that he’d again be putting over HHH. I did like HHH's IC titles reigns in 2001. It was weird and cool to see him hold that belt again, especially with The Game gimmick. Back then it was rare for a former World Champion to backtrack and win a mid card title. It was interesting for sure, but it always puzzled me from a kayfabe perspective as to why HHH would be ok settling for the #2 prize rather than go for the world title. He was “The Game” and saw himself as the best. You’d think Austin being the focal point of the team would have bugged him.
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Post by ASR (therockisback) on Jul 5, 2024 19:22:35 GMT -5
It's still crazy how Kane only held the WWF Title for a day in 98 & didn't win another World Title again til 2010...or 2008 if you count the ECW Title lol.
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Jul 7, 2024 16:41:28 GMT -5
It's still crazy how Kane only held the WWF Title for a day in 98 & didn't win another World Title again til 2010...or 2008 if you count the ECW Title lol. People try to defend it by saying that Kane didn't need the belt, but I think he did. He should've had runs in 2000 and 2003, even if they were short.
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Post by ASR (therockisback) on Jul 7, 2024 22:45:48 GMT -5
It's still crazy how Kane only held the WWF Title for a day in 98 & didn't win another World Title again til 2010...or 2008 if you count the ECW Title lol. People try to defend it by saying that Kane didn't need the belt, but I think he did. He should've had runs in 2000 and 2003, even if they were short. He deserved a few more reigns, at least for a month or something. The rosters were stacked but he still could have pulled it off briefly tbh.
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Post by Back to the Codyverse on Jul 9, 2024 12:24:34 GMT -5
Kane didn't need the belt but a longer and actual meaningful WWF title win have done him wonders.
He should have definitely won the title at No Mercy 2002 and the finish to the chamber still could've been the same. There was 15 different ways they could've written someone to get some heat on Kane and give him a short feud leading up to Mania 19 season but instead they clearly had nothing for him and had him lose to Batista in a glorified squash match that didn't really do anything for Batista anyway
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Post by JC Motors on Jul 14, 2024 15:31:16 GMT -5
It was bound to happen eventually.
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