darkprophet
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Post by darkprophet on Jul 5, 2024 12:19:46 GMT -5
I realize it’s up to WWE signing toy deals and clearing the way, and I know there are multiple “likely never” talent (Snuka, Benoit, Vince, Moolah, Owen Hart, Billy Jack Haynes, perhaps Dino Bravo), but what about Demolition, Legion of Doom, Barbarian, Hercules, One Man Gang (I know we got an Akeem many years ago), Haku, Dynamite Kid, etc. Going much deeper, and we can assume WWE and Mattel would question financial value. But these are names I would think could move figures, shirts and more. Were they all part of the old concussion and/or steroid suits? Even so, weren’t others who have since had Mattel figures, like Warlord? In some talents’ cases, it might be as simple as the WWE deals offered are exclusive and there is more money to be made these days with independent toy companies. But WWE has offered non-exclusive toy deals too. If British Bulldog’s estate can get this, why not some of the others I listed? Just curious what you all think. I am loving the available roster for Big Rubber Guys, but would also like to fill out my Mattel Coliseum Collection and Legends collections too!
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Post by Mongo Bears on Jul 5, 2024 12:27:02 GMT -5
The “likely never” talent list has gotten a lot smaller over the years.
Maybe I’ll get my Buff someday
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jt
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Post by jt on Jul 5, 2024 12:35:14 GMT -5
I realize it’s up to WWE signing toy deals and clearing the way, and I know there are multiple “likely never” talent (Snuka, Benoit, Vince, Moolah, Owen Hart, Billy Jack Haynes, perhaps Dino Bravo), but what about Demolition, Legion of Doom, Barbarian, Hercules, One Man Gang (I know we got an Akeem many years ago), Haku, Dynamite Kid, etc. Going much deeper, and we can assume WWE and Mattel would question financial value. But these are names I would think could move figures, shirts and more. Were they all part of the old concussion and/or steroid suits? Even so, weren’t others who have since had Mattel figures, like Warlord? In some talents’ cases, it might be as simple as the WWE deals offered are exclusive and there is more money to be made these days with independent toy companies. But WWE has offered non-exclusive toy deals too. If British Bulldog’s estate can get this, why not some of the others I listed? Just curious what you all think. I am loving the available roster for Big Rubber Guys, but would also like to fill out my Mattel Coliseum Collection and Legends collections too! Id imagine it's a complicated mix of several factors but the biggest is probably just return on investment. As much as it pains me to say guys like Tito Santana or other deep cuts I'd love to have just don't sell as well as a lot of the names they do have. As far as bigger names like the Road Warriors go id imagine the money made from several smaller figure deals is probably better for the rights holder than a legends deal on top of maintaining control for other deals. If WWE offered non exclusive deals to everybody I'd imagine there'd be basically nobody they couldn't get |
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darkprophet
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Post by darkprophet on Jul 5, 2024 12:49:05 GMT -5
I realize it’s up to WWE signing toy deals and clearing the way, and I know there are multiple “likely never” talent (Snuka, Benoit, Vince, Moolah, Owen Hart, Billy Jack Haynes, perhaps Dino Bravo), but what about Demolition, Legion of Doom, Barbarian, Hercules, One Man Gang (I know we got an Akeem many years ago), Haku, Dynamite Kid, etc. Going much deeper, and we can assume WWE and Mattel would question financial value. But these are names I would think could move figures, shirts and more. Were they all part of the old concussion and/or steroid suits? Even so, weren’t others who have since had Mattel figures, like Warlord? In some talents’ cases, it might be as simple as the WWE deals offered are exclusive and there is more money to be made these days with independent toy companies. But WWE has offered non-exclusive toy deals too. If British Bulldog’s estate can get this, why not some of the others I listed? Just curious what you all think. I am loving the available roster for Big Rubber Guys, but would also like to fill out my Mattel Coliseum Collection and Legends collections too! Id imagine it's a complicated mix of several factors but the biggest is probably just return on investment. As much as it pains me to say guys like Tito Santana or other deep cuts I'd love to have just don't sell as well as a lot of the names they do have. As far as bigger names like the Road Warriors go id imagine the money made from several smaller figure deals is probably better for the rights holder than a legends deal on top of maintaining control for other deals. If WWE offered non exclusive deals to everybody I'd imagine there'd be basically nobody they couldn't get Totally agree with all that you state. And I get that Andre is a Legend above most, but Davey Boy, as much as I like him, seems to fit the same tier as LOD, Demolition, and possibly others. So if he can get a non-exclusive deal… |
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jt
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Post by jt on Jul 5, 2024 12:57:19 GMT -5
Id imagine it's a complicated mix of several factors but the biggest is probably just return on investment. As much as it pains me to say guys like Tito Santana or other deep cuts I'd love to have just don't sell as well as a lot of the names they do have. As far as bigger names like the Road Warriors go id imagine the money made from several smaller figure deals is probably better for the rights holder than a legends deal on top of maintaining control for other deals. If WWE offered non exclusive deals to everybody I'd imagine there'd be basically nobody they couldn't get Totally agree with all that you state. And I get that Andre is a Legend above most, but Davey Boy, as much as I like him, seems to fit the same tier as LOD, Demolition, and possibly others. So if he can get a non-exclusive deal… Im hoping the new regime opens up more non exclusive deals. Id like to think the name recognition and relationship with brick and mortar retailers gives them enough confidence to do non exclusive deals knowing that their figures are always going to put up decent numbers. Like you said, if bulldog can manage a deal like that there's no reason anybody but like Hogan would need an exclusive deal |
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darkprophet
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Post by darkprophet on Jul 5, 2024 12:58:10 GMT -5
Totally agree with all that you state. And I get that Andre is a Legend above most, but Davey Boy, as much as I like him, seems to fit the same tier as LOD, Demolition, and possibly others. So if he can get a non-exclusive deal… Im hoping the new regime opens up more non exclusive deals. Id like to think the name recognition and relationship with brick and mortar retailers gives them enough confidence to do non exclusive deals knowing that their figures are always going to put up decent numbers. Like you said, if bulldog can manage a deal like that there's no reason anybody but like Hogan would need an exclusive deal Agreed completely! |
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Post by The Assassin on Jul 5, 2024 13:20:27 GMT -5
Kinda a side note to your specific question since you're mostly discussing fairly big names, but in case it's of interest, we do know WWE has recently introduced new types of merchandise contracts specifically aimed at the "non-A-list" type talent, i.e. the less popular/more obscure names. Obviously it won't solve all the issues that may be stopping talent from signing deals or stopping WWE from offering deals. But still it's a great step in progress to get more "deep dive" names made in figure form, and I'm hopeful going forward Mattel can work with WWE to hit more of those great characters and talents who may in the past have been considered "too obscure" to work under the previous contract structures.
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darkprophet
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Post by darkprophet on Jul 5, 2024 14:00:06 GMT -5
Kinda a side note to your specific question since you're mostly discussing fairly big names, but in case it's of interest, we do know WWE has recently introduced new types of merchandise contracts specifically aimed at the "non-A-list" type talent, i.e. the less popular/more obscure names. Obviously it won't solve all the issues that may be stopping talent from signing deals or stopping WWE from offering deals. But still it's a great step in progress to get more "deep dive" names made in figure form, and I'm hopeful going forward Mattel can work with WWE to hit more of those great characters and talents who may in the past have been considered "too obscure" to work under the previous contract structures. That would be great! One figure I really want is Hercules! Hopefully that can happen at some point with Mattel (though I’ll settle for a Big Rubber Guy!). |
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thep1
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Post by thep1 on Jul 5, 2024 14:08:52 GMT -5
They likely never talent list has gotten a lot smaller over the years. Maybe I’ll get my Buff someday If we don't get a Buff in the MNW then we likely never will. Hard to tell the MNW story without him and I think he'd be so great to have! Such a big want for me as well! |
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Post by stc13 on Jul 5, 2024 14:23:50 GMT -5
Since this topic comes up weekly this time of year and there's a ton of telephone game and misinformation that goes around...
-Unsigned talent are in that situation for any number of reasons. Some don't like the financial terms, some people still have a grudge over past situations, some simply haven't been offered a contract. That could change tomorrow, or never change.
-WWE has regular turnover refreshing the list of available talent, but like any department in a huge company, likely have a budget or directives that limit the number of contracts at any time
-Many Legends/nostalgia contracts are in the public domain - they're typically 5 year deals with a 6th year option for a $10k advance and royalties paid against/beyond that advance at a set percentage for things like toys, games, appearances, etc. There are no recent examples, so terms may or may not have changed
-Legends and nostalgia contracts have been used interchangably for years. There's no indication there is a "new" type of contract.
-These contracts cover appearances like Axxess/fan fests, so they will want to balance living and deceased talents
-Bigger names have more leverage, as do wrestlers who own their trademark/IP
-Media with faster turnaround times (cards, video games) have an established track record as strong indicators of new talent that may have figures in the works. Exceptions exist, but if you want spoilers, that's as good as it gets.
-WWE is a massive, publicly traded company. Change is inevitable, but temper your expectations. Maybe someday you'll get that Moondog Spot figure you've always wanted. But the odds are not in your favor.
Beyond that, happy SDCC season folks.
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Post by GreyHaze:Big Bad Booty Daddy on Jul 5, 2024 14:26:53 GMT -5
They likely never talent list has gotten a lot smaller over the years. Maybe I’ll get my Buff someday If we don't get a Buff in the MNW then we likely never will. Hard to tell the MNW story without him and I think he'd be so great to have! Such a big want for me as well! Yup. I want Buff Bagwell too! Black tights, brick designs like his Toybiz figure. The accessories could include neck brace, sunglasses, top hat and shirt. |
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Post by Fighter Hayabusa on Jul 5, 2024 15:21:12 GMT -5
Everyone always assumes it’s WWE that never goes after these names but there are plenty of examples where it’s the talent or estates that don’t want to sign a deal with WWE. I’d imagine every big name out there has been approached with some sort of deal from WWE and were rejected due to personal and/or financial reasons.
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Post by AxelSmackdown on Jul 5, 2024 19:23:45 GMT -5
some of those guys were part of the concussion lawsuit weren’t they? maybe things will change under the new regime
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darkprophet
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Post by darkprophet on Jul 5, 2024 20:24:00 GMT -5
some of those guys were part of the concussion lawsuit weren’t they? maybe things will change under the new regime I’m sure, but wasn’t Warlord and possibly others also, who’ve had figures? |
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darkprophet
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Post by darkprophet on Jul 5, 2024 20:29:41 GMT -5
What I’m really wondering is if any of you are aware of the specific reasons some of the Legends I named (or others) don’t get figures? As in, have any of them stated in shoot interviews their disdain for the company. Or possibly negative history that WWE wouldn’t want to associate themselves with?
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Herc and Roma
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Post by Herc and Roma on Jul 5, 2024 21:00:18 GMT -5
Everyone always assumes it’s WWE that never goes after these names but there are plenty of examples where it’s the talent or estates that don’t want to sign a deal with WWE. I’d imagine every big name out there has been approached with some sort of deal from WWE and were rejected due to personal and/or financial reasons.
Right you are, I think the following fall into the category of not wanting to sign a legends deal (for whatever reason):
Rick Martel Barbarian
Hercules (estate)
King Kong Bundy (estate) Demolition The Killer Bees
The Road Warriors (estate) Mr Fuji (estate)
Martel signed a deal with Mattel back at the very beginning when they were signing deals directly with wrestlers. He also signed a deal with 2K to appear in the WWE video game a few years ago (2K18 & 2K19). Both were straight merchandise deals, which indicates to me that he is not interested in signing a legends deal that involves other things like making appearances but is willing to sign simple merchandise deals. Unfortunately, WWE does not appear to be interested in merchandise only deals which is why I don't think we will ever see any more Martel figures from Mattel.
Mr. Fuji is a bit of a surprise as we have not even seen a trading card of him- Topps had the WWE license for a long time yet we did not get even 1 card of Mr Fuji. It looks like his daughter might have some ill will towards WWE (she joined the concussion lawsuit towards the end).
Money is another factor in why some wrestlers don't sign a deal with WWE as their legends deals don't pay very much especially for lower level talent. With all the new indie companies that have popped up as well as the emergence of PowerTown (they have stated that under their deals, wrestlers/ estates will receive a bigger cut), they have more options available to them to make some money instead of been locked into a WWE legends deal where they make very little. Look at how many wrestlers/estates that were previously under a legends deal have now signed with PowerTown:
Hacksaw Jim Duggan Junkyard Dog Kamala
Tito Santana Arn Anderson Tully Blanchard Bobby Heenan Gene Okerlund
I think if PowerTown can get their footing, become more established and start pumping out more merchandise (not just figures) that we might see more wrestlers currently under a legends deal sign with PowerTown once that deal expires.
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Herc and Roma
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Post by Herc and Roma on Jul 5, 2024 21:21:02 GMT -5
What I’m really wondering is if any of you are aware of the specific reasons some of the Legends I named (or others) don’t get figures? As in, have any of them stated in shoot interviews their disdain for the company. Or possibly negative history that WWE wouldn’t want to associate themselves with?
Demolition & The Killer Bees were not on good terms with McMahon. Now that he is out, that might change things if new ownership is open to mend fences. We have seen this with Jesse Ventura who has been approached to sign a legends deal. He was another one that was not on good terms with McMahon but now that he is gone, he is more open to working with them (if a deal can be reached).
Hercules- There may be an issue with his family, I read an interview with his daughter a while back (it was done a few months after Herc passed away), she had some not so nice things to say about several people at WWE. Also, I recall reading a post from someone on here years back (not sure if this is true) that his wife was bad mouthing WWE regarding the Benoit tragedy and their stance on concussions and the role it played in what happened. These might be factors in why WWE might not be interested in offering a legends deal to Hercules estate. I doubt money is an issue (meaning the estate is asking for too much) as they have signed a deal with Zombie Sailor and I don't think they are getting a lot of money from that deal.
Koko B. Ware- not on good terms due to his alleged involvement in the concussion lawsuit.
Barbarian- I don't think their is any bad blood between him and WWE, he either doesn't want to sign a legends deal or is not happy with the money they are offering
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darkprophet
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Post by darkprophet on Jul 5, 2024 22:24:10 GMT -5
Everyone always assumes it’s WWE that never goes after these names but there are plenty of examples where it’s the talent or estates that don’t want to sign a deal with WWE. I’d imagine every big name out there has been approached with some sort of deal from WWE and were rejected due to personal and/or financial reasons.
Right you are, I think the following fall into the category of not wanting to sign a legends deal (for whatever reason):
Rick Martel Barbarian
Hercules (estate)
King Kong Bundy (estate) Demolition The Killer Bees
The Road Warriors (estate) Mr Fuji (estate)
Martel signed a deal with Mattel back at the very beginning when they were signing deals directly with wrestlers. He also signed a deal with 2K to appear in the WWE video game a few years ago (2K18 & 2K19). Both were straight merchandise deals, which indicates to me that he is not interested in signing a legends deal that involves other things like making appearances but is willing to sign simple merchandise deals. Unfortunately, WWE does not appear to be interested in merchandise only deals which is why I don't think we will ever see any more Martel figures from Mattel.
Mr. Fuji is a bit of a surprise as we have not even seen a trading card of him- Topps had the WWE license for a long time yet we did not get even 1 card of Mr Fuji. It looks like his daughter might have some ill will towards WWE (she joined the concussion lawsuit towards the end).
Money is another factor in why some wrestlers don't sign a deal with WWE as their legends deals don't pay very much especially for lower level talent. With all the new indie companies that have popped up as well as the emergence of PowerTown (they have stated that under their deals, wrestlers/ estates will receive a bigger cut), they have more options available to them to make some money instead of been locked into a WWE legends deal where they make very little. Look at how many wrestlers/estates that were previously under a legends deal have now signed with PowerTown:
Hacksaw Jim Duggan Junkyard Dog Kamala
Tito Santana Arn Anderson Tully Blanchard Bobby Heenan Gene Okerlund
I think if PowerTown can get their footing, become more established and start pumping out more merchandise (not just figures) that we might see more wrestlers currently under a legends deal sign with PowerTown once that deal expires.
Thank you for this info! |
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Post by MKSavage on Jul 5, 2024 22:36:26 GMT -5
It really depends on who is signed with the WWE. Some of those guys were signed previously, but I believe that ended with the concussion lawsuit (Demolition, Warlord, Barbarian, Koko, etc.) Not sure if the company held a grudge, but it looks like most of them haven't resigned. Demolition and LOD seem to make good money on their own and don't really need the WWE as much as other. Really surprised Barbarian hasn't signed. Don't know if that's him not wanting to, or the WWE not really trying. Shame though, I believe he was supposed to get a solo figure released around the same time as the Warlord and Berzerker figure were released, but his got cancelled because of the concussion lawsuit. Hopefully with the new ownership, some of these guys will come back under contract soon.
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marvelelite
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Post by marvelelite on Jul 5, 2024 23:03:09 GMT -5
Kinda interesting hearing WWE mentioning the Road Warriors promoting their tag title main event tonight. Not saying it means anything, but I guess it's a sign how things have changed since Vince is gone.
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