Ohtimate Wahriah
Main Eventer
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Joined on: Jul 1, 2008 12:35:07 GMT -5
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Post by Ohtimate Wahriah on Jul 15, 2024 5:10:16 GMT -5
It’s just that, I’ve never seen a company bury a guy but then blame him like he couldn’t get over. AS he is literally walking to the ring, they are announcing him as the next WWF Champion over the PA…and then he wins by count out & celebrates like he won the World Series, he comes off like a total loser and it’s completely on the company. I love Lex, I loved that Summer. All he had to do was win and then let the chips fall where they may. If it turns out he’s not the next Hogan, so be it. But he didn’t fail, he was sabotaged. He could have been disappointed he didn’t win the belt and THAT would have done wonders for keeping his momentum. It’s the whole thing was a disaster, I’ve always felt that Bruce Pritchard may have been one of the people to convince Vince to change course. In both his podcast and the documentary the WWE released on Lex last year, Bruce makes him out to be the most miserable guy in the world, yet the majority of his peers had nothing but positives to say about him. Hell, even Bret said that Lex was a quality guy. Lex brings up a good point too that all the footage the WWE has released of the “Lex Express” tour since then has been him at his worst, yet they rarely if ever show the footage of him enjoying himself. I couldn’t agree more. Thats wrestling though. They take a fond memory and feel the need to tarnish it and brainwash people into thinking it wasn’t fun when everyone thought it was originally. I feel like it was Prichard as well, I also think Patterson HAD to be telling Vince, Bret is the guy. They’re just so hypocritical, how many times does Bruce go on his podcast & say “he didn’t need the belt”. This is a perfect example of a guy who could have benefitted from the belt and NOT winning it, totally destroyed his momentum. We were to believe as kids, that this guy launched a bus tour campaign JUST to challenge for the WWF title, he fails to win it, and then just goes, oh well…and moves on. And that DIDNT hurt his image in the eyes of the fans?? This is the most WWE example of WWE being WWE though. Let’s randomly turn a guy babyface, push him for an entire summer like no other, stick balloons in the ceiling for an obvious championship win….and then don’t do it. But then blame Luger for failing to captivate fans lol. Winning the title IS PART of captivating them. It still infuriates me haha. Luger was over just fine, had they stuck the belt on him he’d have been as over as anybody else they told you to like. They couldn’t justify putting the belt on Luger, but Diesel was reaching people I guess..Cena was boo’d ruthlessly for a decade….yet that never made them change course. It’s hypocritical.
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sinfony
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Jul 25, 2023 4:22:29 GMT -5
Posts: 82
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Post by sinfony on Jul 15, 2024 5:50:04 GMT -5
I’ve always felt that Bruce Pritchard may have been one of the people to convince Vince to change course. In both his podcast and the documentary the WWE released on Lex last year, Bruce makes him out to be the most miserable guy in the world, yet the majority of his peers had nothing but positives to say about him. Hell, even Bret said that Lex was a quality guy. Lex brings up a good point too that all the footage the WWE has released of the “Lex Express” tour since then has been him at his worst, yet they rarely if ever show the footage of him enjoying himself. I couldn’t agree more. Thats wrestling though. They take a fond memory and feel the need to tarnish it and brainwash people into thinking it wasn’t fun when everyone thought it was originally. I feel like it was Prichard as well, I also think Patterson HAD to be telling Vince, Bret is the guy. They’re just so hypocritical, how many times does Bruce go on his podcast & say “he didn’t need the belt”. This is a perfect example of a guy who could have benefitted from the belt and NOT winning it, totally destroyed his momentum. We were to believe as kids, that this guy launched a bus tour campaign JUST to challenge for the WWF title, he fails to win it, and then just goes, oh well…and moves on. And that DIDNT hurt his image in the eyes of the fans?? This is the most WWE example of WWE being WWE though. Let’s randomly turn a guy babyface, push him for an entire summer like no other, stick balloons in the ceiling for an obvious championship win….and then don’t do it. But then blame Luger for failing to captivate fans lol. Winning the title IS PART of captivating them. It still infuriates me haha. Luger was over just fine, had they stuck the belt on him he’d have been as over as anybody else they told you to like. They couldn’t justify putting the belt on Luger, but Diesel was reaching people I guess..Cena was boo’d ruthlessly for a decade….yet that never made them change course. It’s hypocritical. Vince was lost as soon as Hogan bailed on him. The whole creative process had been geared solely around giving a heel a title run who would then lose to Hogan at Wrestlemania. Without that option in place, he just didn't know what to do. He desperately wanted Luger to be Hulk, but he knew that Luger wasn't Hulk and wasn't willing to put him over as the Real American Champion. He was probably still dreaming of Hulk returning once his latest TV flop was done and being the one to dethrone that monster Yokozuna, so he wouldn't need two wrestlers essentially portraying the same role.
Luger was just collateral damage, something I think Vince at least subconsciously enjoyed: Taking a top WCW star and then showing that they weren't really capable of leading his big boy company. He did exactly the same with Flair. A half-hearted push and then he was moved down the pecking order ASAP.
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Ohtimate Wahriah
Main Eventer
WF 10 Year Member
Joined on: Jul 1, 2008 12:35:07 GMT -5
Posts: 2,627
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Post by Ohtimate Wahriah on Jul 15, 2024 5:55:31 GMT -5
I couldn’t agree more. Thats wrestling though. They take a fond memory and feel the need to tarnish it and brainwash people into thinking it wasn’t fun when everyone thought it was originally. I feel like it was Prichard as well, I also think Patterson HAD to be telling Vince, Bret is the guy. They’re just so hypocritical, how many times does Bruce go on his podcast & say “he didn’t need the belt”. This is a perfect example of a guy who could have benefitted from the belt and NOT winning it, totally destroyed his momentum. We were to believe as kids, that this guy launched a bus tour campaign JUST to challenge for the WWF title, he fails to win it, and then just goes, oh well…and moves on. And that DIDNT hurt his image in the eyes of the fans?? This is the most WWE example of WWE being WWE though. Let’s randomly turn a guy babyface, push him for an entire summer like no other, stick balloons in the ceiling for an obvious championship win….and then don’t do it. But then blame Luger for failing to captivate fans lol. Winning the title IS PART of captivating them. It still infuriates me haha. Luger was over just fine, had they stuck the belt on him he’d have been as over as anybody else they told you to like. They couldn’t justify putting the belt on Luger, but Diesel was reaching people I guess..Cena was boo’d ruthlessly for a decade….yet that never made them change course. It’s hypocritical. Vince was lost as soon as Hogan bailed on him. The whole creative process had been geared solely around giving a heel a title run who would then lose to Hogan at Wrestlemania. Without that option in place, he just didn't know what to do. He desperately wanted Luger to be Hulk, but he knew that Luger wasn't Hulk and wasn't willing to put him over as the Real American Champion. He was probably still dreaming of Hulk returning once his latest TV flop was done and being the one to dethrone that monster Yokozuna, so he wouldn't need two wrestlers essentially portraying the same role. Luger was just collateral damage, something I think Vince at least subconsciously enjoyed: Taking a top WCW star and then showing that they weren't really capable of leading his big boy company. He did exactly the same with Flair. A half-hearted push and then he was moved down the pecking order ASAP.
I agree with you. And that’s just it, Lex had to live up to Hogan and because he couldn’t, he was a failure. Yet the bar was much lower for everyone else following him.
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sinfony
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Jul 25, 2023 4:22:29 GMT -5
Posts: 82
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Post by sinfony on Jul 15, 2024 6:20:52 GMT -5
Vince was lost as soon as Hogan bailed on him. The whole creative process had been geared solely around giving a heel a title run who would then lose to Hogan at Wrestlemania. Without that option in place, he just didn't know what to do. He desperately wanted Luger to be Hulk, but he knew that Luger wasn't Hulk and wasn't willing to put him over as the Real American Champion. He was probably still dreaming of Hulk returning once his latest TV flop was done and being the one to dethrone that monster Yokozuna, so he wouldn't need two wrestlers essentially portraying the same role. Luger was just collateral damage, something I think Vince at least subconsciously enjoyed: Taking a top WCW star and then showing that they weren't really capable of leading his big boy company. He did exactly the same with Flair. A half-hearted push and then he was moved down the pecking order ASAP.
I agree with you. And that’s just it, Lex had to live up to Hogan and because he couldn’t, he was a failure. Yet the bar was much lower for everyone else following him. Well, the problem was that they moulded Luger so clearly in the patriotic babyface role a la Hogan that it was inevitable that he would be measured against Hogan. They could have still used him as a babyface without going so OTT with all the flags and the patriotism aspect.
They could have just built it around Luger's power - him being the only guy in the whole company to have slammed Yoko, of course he deserves the title shot, while Cornette puts over that the slam was a fluke, and anyway it's one thing slamming someone who's just standing still and giving you the opportunity, it's another thing to overcome him in a wrestling match and to actually pin him. Luger would have had the crowd with him, with or without the whole bus tour and "call to action" and he could have developed him own character without being put into the Hogan straitjacket.
It wasn't just Luger who suffered for not being Hogan though. Bret was also often short-changed by Vince because he wasn't Vince's idea of the top babyface champion, not being a muscle man or a big tall imposing figure and not having USA! USA! element, so he mostly only got the hold the belt before it was passed on to Vince's latest craze, e.g. to Yokozuna in a WM main event where no babyface had ever had to lose previously, having to job to Backlund so that Diesel could immediately win it in 9 seconds flat, etc.
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Ohtimate Wahriah
Main Eventer
WF 10 Year Member
Joined on: Jul 1, 2008 12:35:07 GMT -5
Posts: 2,627
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Post by Ohtimate Wahriah on Jul 15, 2024 8:40:41 GMT -5
All great points. It’s just weird to me that they were looking to replace Hogans character and not Hogans spot. They didn’t need another Hulk Hogan, they needed another top babyface. What I’m always trying to say about Luger is that we’ll never know if he could have replaced Hogan because IMO, he never got the opportunity. It’s the equivalent of having Hogan lose to the Iron Shiek and then saying, he couldn’t live up to Bruno. At some point, you have to just give him the ball and let him run. Did anybody think Roman would turn into what he did when he first won the belt? NO way, 10 out of 10 people couldn’t have predicted that run.
They chopped Lugers legs out from under him before he could run…and then the way they did it made it so no fan could ever believe in his character again. HAD they just made him Hogan 2.0, it would have been interesting to see what happened. Do I think he would have lived up to Hogan? No…but I also didn’t think Roman would have the run he had, I didn’t think Cena would have the run he had.. so there is no telling what can happen. But good lord, at least pay off the summer long build properly.
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Post by cordless2016 on Jul 15, 2024 9:10:51 GMT -5
All great points. It’s just weird to me that they were looking to replace Hogans character and not Hogans spot. They didn’t need another Hulk Hogan, they needed another top babyface. What I’m always trying to say about Luger is that we’ll never know if he could have replaced Hogan because IMO, he never got the opportunity. It’s the equivalent of having Hogan lose to the Iron Shiek and then saying, he couldn’t live up to Bruno. At some point, you have to just give him the ball and let him run. Did anybody think Roman would turn into what he did when he first won the belt? NO way, 10 out of 10 people couldn’t have predicted that run. They chopped Lugers legs out from under him before he could run…and then the way they did it made it so no fan could ever believe in his character again. HAD they just made him Hogan 2.0, it would have been interesting to see what happened. Do I think he would have lived up to Hogan? No…but I also didn’t think Roman would have the run he had, I didn’t think Cena would have the run he had.. so there is no telling what can happen. But good lord, at least pay off the summer long build properly. It’s crazy to me that Vince has been so stubborn in the past that he’d continue to push Diesel, Cena, Roman, ect… to the moon despite major fan backlash, but Lex is where he drew his line? Hell, Vince even changed plans and delayed Roman’s first title win at WM31, but he still stuck to them. I’m as big of a Bret fan as anyone, and felt he was aways best to be the top babyface. But it’s clear that Vince was never 100% behind him, and with Hogan gone and a depleted roster, you’d think he would have just gone for it with Lex as champ. Hell, running with a heel champ for a year wasn’t even really a WWF thing as the NWA was more known for that. Just baffeling decision making all around.
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Ohtimate Wahriah
Main Eventer
WF 10 Year Member
Joined on: Jul 1, 2008 12:35:07 GMT -5
Posts: 2,627
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Post by Ohtimate Wahriah on Jul 15, 2024 11:06:32 GMT -5
All great points. It’s just weird to me that they were looking to replace Hogans character and not Hogans spot. They didn’t need another Hulk Hogan, they needed another top babyface. What I’m always trying to say about Luger is that we’ll never know if he could have replaced Hogan because IMO, he never got the opportunity. It’s the equivalent of having Hogan lose to the Iron Shiek and then saying, he couldn’t live up to Bruno. At some point, you have to just give him the ball and let him run. Did anybody think Roman would turn into what he did when he first won the belt? NO way, 10 out of 10 people couldn’t have predicted that run. They chopped Lugers legs out from under him before he could run…and then the way they did it made it so no fan could ever believe in his character again. HAD they just made him Hogan 2.0, it would have been interesting to see what happened. Do I think he would have lived up to Hogan? No…but I also didn’t think Roman would have the run he had, I didn’t think Cena would have the run he had.. so there is no telling what can happen. But good lord, at least pay off the summer long build properly. It’s crazy to me that Vince has been so stubborn in the past that he’d continue to push Diesel, Cena, Roman, ect… to the moon despite major fan backlash, but Lex is where he drew his line? Hell, Vince even changed plans and delayed Roman’s first title win at WM31, but he still stuck to them. I’m as big of a Bret fan as anyone, and felt he was aways best to be the top babyface. But it’s clear that Vince was never 100% behind him, and with Hogan gone and a depleted roster, you’d think he would have just gone for it with Lex as champ. Hell, running with a heel champ for a year wasn’t even really a WWF thing as the NWA was more known for that. Just baffeling decision making all around. And let it be known, there WAS fan backlash to Roman, Cena, Diesel etc. There was only PERCEIVED backlash to Lex. They were guessing that fans wouldn’t like him, up until Summerslam, he was getting the bigger reactions on the shows. There was absolutely no signs that this wouldn’t work. That’s when you get the old “he didn’t have the best attitude backstage”. Like dude…please. Stone Cold beat his wife, amazing how that never comes up haha. It’s all BS. There are no perfect people, all of them have some sort of skeleton’s. When convenient though, the champ needs to be Jesus Christ behind the scenes. They should just come out and say, “we didn’t like Lex”. I totally agree with you though.
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Post by JokerFC on Jul 15, 2024 14:37:20 GMT -5
Great points about Lugers reaction vs those of Cena, Reigns etc...
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