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Post by JokerFC on Sept 23, 2024 2:48:04 GMT -5
So in an alternate reality where this match does actually take place? how does everyone see it going? Who goes over? I've thought about it for a while and I don't see Bret going over if they did collide. I don't see Vince going for a babyface rematch because WM12 didn't do the business.
Bret's heel turn was already well brewing before HBK lost his smile so I could see him being heel and getting beat by HBK 100%. Unless the heel turn was committed to during the match? But Vince was still in the place of send them home happy with WM....
thoughts?
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Post by hbkjason on Sept 23, 2024 3:56:35 GMT -5
I see no universe in which Shawn Michaels was going to put Bret Hart over at WrestleMania 13.
At best, there is some kind of brawl at the end of it and it ends in some kind of BS finish with there being no clear cut winner. No way HBK is letting Bret pin him or submitting in the sharpshooter in March of 1997.
It is strange, no wrestler, not even Hulk Hogan seems to have had a hold on Vince like Shawn Michaels did during this time, no way he sides with Bret over Shawn.
However, I do think a regular match with these two in March of 97 would have been fantastic. While HBK would not put over Bret, I still think he would have wanted to have an amazing match.
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Post by JokerFC on Sept 23, 2024 4:29:00 GMT -5
I see no universe in which Shawn Michaels was going to put Bret Hart over at WrestleMania 13. At best, there is some kind of brawl at the end of it and it ends in some kind of BS finish with there being no clear cut winner. No way HBK is letting Bret pin him or submitting in the sharpshooter in March of 1997. It is strange, no wrestler, not even Hulk Hogan seems to have had a hold on Vince like Shawn Michaels did during this time, no way he sides with Bret over Shawn. However, I do think a regular match with these two in March of 97 would have been fantastic. While HBK would not put over Bret, I still think he would have wanted to have an amazing match. Its one of my laments that the 2 did not collide as scheduled at KOTR 97 with no title on the line. I think we would have been in for a treat. |
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sinfony
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Post by sinfony on Sept 23, 2024 4:36:54 GMT -5
It is strange, no wrestler, not even Hulk Hogan seems to have had a hold on Vince like Shawn Michaels did during this time, no way he sides with Bret over Shawn. It wouldn't surprise me if their relationship has more to it than meets the eye, certainly from Vince's side as more and more details about his personality have come to light over the years.
McMahon's kowtowing to every whim of Michaels and his passive approval of the chaos that Michaels and his best buddies were allowed to wreak backstage with the other talent just defies logic if you look at it from a business point of view. It's not even like Michaels was a particularly strong draw for the company. As you said, not even the cash cow that was Hogan was allowed quite as much leeway. The belt was always taken off Hogan in the ring (or at least by Tunney) before he was allowed to exit from in-ring action.
Of course, Michaels wasn't champion at WM13 because unlike any other previous champion he was allowed to simply give up the title undefeated, with McMahon stood alongside practically wiping the tears away. Nine months later, of course, it was deemed an utter impossibility for McMahon to tolerate his champion vacating the title, as of course that would seemingly kill his entire company stone dead if he were to allow that to happen.
All this just makes one once again appreciate just how lucky McMahon struck with Austin, even though he had worked hard to handicap him as with most WCW imports with that Ringmaster schtick.
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Post by JokerFC on Sept 23, 2024 4:58:07 GMT -5
It is strange, no wrestler, not even Hulk Hogan seems to have had a hold on Vince like Shawn Michaels did during this time, no way he sides with Bret over Shawn. It wouldn't surprise me if their relationship has more to it than meets the eye, certainly from Vince's side as more and more details about his personality have come to light over the years.
McMahon's kowtowing to every whim of Michaels and his passive approval of the chaos that Michaels and his best buddies were allowed to wreak backstage with the other talent just defies logic if you look at it from a business point of view. It's not even like Michaels was a particularly strong draw for the company. As you said, not even the cash cow that was Hogan was allowed quite as much leeway.
Of course, Michaels wasn't champion at WM13 because unlike any other previous champion he was allowed to simply give up the title undefeated, with McMahon stood alongside practically wiping the tears away. Nine months later, of course, it was deemed an utter impossibility for McMahon to tolerate his champion vacating the title, as of course that would seemingly kill his entire company stone dead if he were to allow that to happen.
All this just makes one once again appreciate just how lucky McMahon struck with Austin, even though he had worked hard to handicap him as with most WCW imports with that Ringmaster schtick.
Even die hard bootlicker Prichard says McMahon fell ass backwards into a pot of golden coins with Austin. you always know something is accurate if Prichard, Ross, Russo and Cornette agree on it. They all tell the same story of Vince not seeing anything in Austin, disliking the 3:16 shirt, balking at turning him face and him not wanting to be the Mr McMahon character. its how you know. Its also interesting to note all of the above agree that Michaels wasn't injured and was just being a d*ck. |
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sinfony
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Post by sinfony on Sept 23, 2024 5:02:43 GMT -5
So in an alternate reality where this match does actually take place? how does everyone see it going? Who goes over? I've thought about it for a while and I don't see Bret going over if they did collide. I don't see Vince going for a babyface rematch because WM12 didn't do the business. Bret's heel turn was already well brewing before HBK lost his smile so I could see him being heel and getting beat by HBK 100%. Unless the heel turn was committed to during the match? But Vince was still in the place of send them home happy with WM.... thoughts? I can't see two WMs in a row being headlined by the same match, particularly when the previous one hadn't got a big buyrate. They even passed on Hogan-Warrior Part II at WM7 when they were aiming to fill the LA Coliseum.
I suppose the Survivor Series in Canada was probably the most logical spot if you want to book a one-on-one match between them in 1997 because you've built the heat over the year, had the Summerslam spit/chair shot bring things to the boil and now you can use the Canadian crowd to avoid the contest essentially being heel vs heel, or at least without a clear crowd favourite.
The problem though was clearly the background contractual situation that lead to the in-ring disaster and the effective ending of kayfabe, even if the rise of the internet was always going to pose a challenge to that in the long-term.
Even if Vince genuinely felt that he couldn't sustain Bret's contract, I've always thought it a shame that he couldn't at least continue with the deal until WM14. Have Bret vs Austin as the main event, after the quality of their matches in 1997, that would surely have sold and then crown Austin as the new guy. Bret would have had no problem with doing that and they would have had a better match than the injured Michaels managed. It would also have given their feud the final blow-off that most US fans wanted by that time.
If they had been willing to allow Bret to stay on-board until losing to Austin down the road, you could have had the Bret-Michaels match at Survivor Series with the DQ finish as planned and just let them go at it without any of the political BS. I thought the match they were putting on was actually well on the way to being a great one until the mess of the finish.
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nibs92
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Post by nibs92 on Sept 23, 2024 5:47:34 GMT -5
Great topic.
WM13 was the final piece for Bret’s heel turn in my opinion. I would want to keep to the original trajectory as much as possible.
Rumble, Thursday Raw Thursday and Final four pretty much the same story. Bret loses belt to Sid on the following raw.
Beginning of March, Michaels comes back with a story that his knee isn’t as bad as thought and he will be ready for WM. Shawn issues a challenge to the winner of Taker v Sid for the belt. This raises the ire of Bret who feels he’s been overlooked. Bret accuses Michaels of vacating the belt, faking injury and waiting until Bret v Austin is signed before announcing a comeback and accuses HBK of being scared to face him as he knows that Bret would win. Grudge match between the two signed for WM, leaving a chagrined Austin out in the cold.
In any reality, Shawn isn’t losing the match. I’d have the match as a semi main event (leave title match to go on last - would allow shenanigans to take place without overplaying the main event). Have Austin come down to ringside near the end of the match. Whilst the ref is distracted with Austin, Bret gets the sharpshooter on Shawn, who is giving up and giving Bret the visual win. Austin hits the ref with a stunner (possibly too early in Austin’s run for this, but I’ll go with it). Second ref comes down and calls the match a no contest. Bret is irate and goes storming to the back. Meanwhile, the first ref regains consciousness and overrules the no contest and restarts the match. Backstage, Bret has been attacked by Austin but is forced to go back to the ring to finish his match. A weakened Bret is beaten within two minutes of the restart, mirroring the end of their Iron Man match at the last WM.
Post match, Shawn has avoided the loss and we still get Bret v Austin further down the line. Go with Bret v Austin at King of the Ring to fully cement Bret’s heel turn
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Post by JokerFC on Sept 23, 2024 6:13:42 GMT -5
They were scheduled to wrestle at KOTR 97 but Brets knee injury prevented it and we got HBK vs Austin instead. Had this match got in the ring? how do we think it would have effected events, Backstage issues etc....
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Post by MKSavage on Sept 23, 2024 8:49:41 GMT -5
From what Bret has said for many years now, the plan all along was for Shawn to lose the belt back to Bret at WM13, then Bret would lose the belt back to Shawn later in the year essentially passing the torch to Shawn as Bret would start winding down his in-ring career. Bret's contract was really only for 3 years when he returned in 1996 (wrestling-wise), he has said that he didn't plan on wrestling much longer after 1999. He was supposed to have a backstage role and wrestle part-time after 1999. I could definitely see them pushing Bret's heel turn further during the match, had it taken place. I still say the way they did the double turn with Bret/Austin was perfect. So, if they did the Shawn/Bret match at WM13, they don't quite do the heel turn there but they continue to set it up. Then you do the Austin/Bret match at the following PPV for the true heel turn. I think it was kind of clear that they were still very much planning on Shawn/Bret at WM13, and I think they were looking to put the belt back on Bret. If that wasn't the case, Shawn never would have "lost his smile" and he wouldn't have vacated the belt. If the plan was for Shawn & Bret to wrestle again at WM13, and Shawn was going to win or retain the belt, then Shawn wouldn't have vacated the title - IMO.
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Post by MKSavage on Sept 23, 2024 9:00:08 GMT -5
It wouldn't surprise me if their relationship has more to it than meets the eye, certainly from Vince's side as more and more details about his personality have come to light over the years.
McMahon's kowtowing to every whim of Michaels and his passive approval of the chaos that Michaels and his best buddies were allowed to wreak backstage with the other talent just defies logic if you look at it from a business point of view. It's not even like Michaels was a particularly strong draw for the company. As you said, not even the cash cow that was Hogan was allowed quite as much leeway.
Of course, Michaels wasn't champion at WM13 because unlike any other previous champion he was allowed to simply give up the title undefeated, with McMahon stood alongside practically wiping the tears away. Nine months later, of course, it was deemed an utter impossibility for McMahon to tolerate his champion vacating the title, as of course that would seemingly kill his entire company stone dead if he were to allow that to happen.
All this just makes one once again appreciate just how lucky McMahon struck with Austin, even though he had worked hard to handicap him as with most WCW imports with that Ringmaster schtick.
Even die hard bootlicker Prichard says McMahon fell ass backwards into a pot of golden coins with Austin. you always know something is accurate if Prichard, Ross, Russo and Cornette agree on it. They all tell the same story of Vince not seeing anything in Austin, disliking the 3:16 shirt, balking at turning him face and him not wanting to be the Mr McMahon character. its how you know. Its also interesting to note all of the above agree that Michaels wasn't injured and was just being a d*ck. I've been saying this for years now. While Vince was a great promoter, and he gave his wrestlers the best platform to be huge stars, he lucked into a lot of great things. If you look at his two biggest eras, Rock n' Wrestling/Hulkamania and the Attitude Era, he didn't create very many stars. Most of the big-name guys he relied on in the first era were the exact same character in their previous promotion, with some doing the same thing for years prior to Vince taking over. Hogan was doing the Hulkamania stuff in the AWA. Andre was Andre. Savage was basically the same nut in Memphis with Lawler. Piper had been doing that schtick for almost a decade. The Iron Sheik was given his gimmick by Verne in the AWA. Volkoff had been doing that role for a number of years. How many guys in the mid-to-late 80s did Vince really create from scratch. Then you have the attitude era which Hunter is even on record saying that Vince came to the guys in the back and said he could no longer just slap a gimmick on a guy and make them a star. It was basically up to the performers to come up with and create their gimmicks. Look at how he packaged some of his biggest attitude era stars originally: Austin was the ringmaster, the Rock was a goofy babyface, Triple H was a Connecticut-blue blood snob, Kane was a dentist, he loathed the Cactus Jack character, Shawn was a babyface even though he's always been better as a heel. The new age outlaws were re-packages of the Honky Tonk Man and Double J Jeff Jarrett. He lucked into a lot of things. Also, he thought the Mr. McMahon character would be a babyface even though all the guys in the back were telling him it would be a heel gimmick. |
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sinfony
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Post by sinfony on Sept 23, 2024 10:39:43 GMT -5
Even die hard bootlicker Prichard says McMahon fell ass backwards into a pot of golden coins with Austin. you always know something is accurate if Prichard, Ross, Russo and Cornette agree on it. They all tell the same story of Vince not seeing anything in Austin, disliking the 3:16 shirt, balking at turning him face and him not wanting to be the Mr McMahon character. its how you know. Its also interesting to note all of the above agree that Michaels wasn't injured and was just being a d*ck. I've been saying this for years now. While Vince was a great promoter, and he gave his wrestlers the best platform to be huge stars, he lucked into a lot of great things. If you look at his two biggest eras, Rock n' Wrestling/Hulkamania and the Attitude Era, he didn't create very many stars. Most of the big-name guys he relied on in the first era were the exact same character in their previous promotion, with some doing the same thing for years prior to Vince taking over. Hogan was doing the Hulkamania stuff in the AWA. Andre was Andre. Savage was basically the same nut in Memphis with Lawler. Piper had been doing that schtick for almost a decade. The Iron Sheik was given his gimmick by Verne in the AWA. Volkoff had been doing that role for a number of years. How many guys in the mid-to-late 80s did Vince really create from scratch. Then you have the attitude era which Hunter is even on record saying that Vince came to the guys in the back and said he could no longer just slap a gimmick on a guy and make them a star. It was basically up to the performers to come up with and create their gimmicks. Look at how he packaged some of his biggest attitude era stars originally: Austin was the ringmaster, the Rock was a goofy babyface, Triple H was a Connecticut-blue blood snob, Kane was a dentist, he loathed the Cactus Jack character, Shawn was a babyface even though he's always been better as a heel. The new age outlaws were re-packages of the Honky Tonk Man and Double J Jeff Jarrett. He lucked into a lot of things. Also, he thought the Mr. McMahon character would be a babyface even though all the guys in the back were telling him it would be a heel gimmick. 100%. I'm always rolling my eyes at the endless claims of Vince being a creative genius. For me, he lost whatever instinctive touch he had by the early 90s at the latest.
He was a great promoter in being the one guy who was ambitious/skilled/ruthless (take your pick) enough to take his territory national and to tap into the potential overseas, but someone else may well have done that sooner or later anyway. At lot of it was about the right timing with the expansion of the PPV model and satellite technology right through to the network in the streaming era. The trend in all industries since the mid 80s to the present day has been globalisation and once local/national companies expanding to take control of the global market.
He did understand that big, brash characters and the razzmatazz of intro music and properly lit arenas, with a sprinkling of celebrity involvement, worked and that these factor were probably more important than the in-ring quality when it comes to appealing to the greatest number of people.
The big muscular tanned body look and the conflicts between heroes and villains that he was pushing was probably the perfect fit for that era and he did supplement the Hogans and his ilk with some top class characters that he did come up like the Million Dollar Man or Mr Perfect and many very effective storylines. Admittedly, he did have the benefit of the book not having been written before, so you could present a pretty simple soap opera triangle like Hogan/Savage/Elizabeth and it seems entirely fresh and captivating in a "sports" environment.
However, once the steroid scandal put the brakes on his model of big men dukeing it out in the main event and they had recycled the American Hero vs the foreign fanatic/turncoat once or twice, Vince seemed totally lost. He just didn't have the required faith, skill or indeed will to really see the transition through to the "New Generation" (though really it starts with the mishandling of Flair). The finale to Wrestlemania 9 and the jump back into bed with Hogan showed that even in 1993 he would have happily dropped the build over the previous months if he could have Hogan and his ilk back on top. That his main goal for 1992 was to launch a bodybuilding company was another indication of his essential lack of interest in promoting the smaller guys as top level stars.
The steroid trial also had the problem of McMahon essentially putting a stop to recruitment to save money for his legal fees so the product couldn't even be rescued by bringing in ready made talents like Sting, Vader, Austin, Pillman or Foley for a long stretch. They were pretty much just bringing in cheap talents and slapping a silly cartoon gimmick on them in his endeavours to make the product seem family-friendly before he went up before the judge or, as you say, a watered-down version of a gimmick we'd already seen before.
For me, pretty much the only quality addition to the roster as a character in that steroid scandal era was Razor Ramon and Scott Hall said that Vince had no clue that he was merely doing a Scarface impression. And as for the classic tag teams he created after the early 90s, well, erm.... and even when he was handed established tag team stars like the Road Warriors he was soon packaging them into that Rocco gimmick rubbish...
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Post by MKSavage on Sept 23, 2024 11:02:55 GMT -5
I've been saying this for years now. While Vince was a great promoter, and he gave his wrestlers the best platform to be huge stars, he lucked into a lot of great things. If you look at his two biggest eras, Rock n' Wrestling/Hulkamania and the Attitude Era, he didn't create very many stars. Most of the big-name guys he relied on in the first era were the exact same character in their previous promotion, with some doing the same thing for years prior to Vince taking over. Hogan was doing the Hulkamania stuff in the AWA. Andre was Andre. Savage was basically the same nut in Memphis with Lawler. Piper had been doing that schtick for almost a decade. The Iron Sheik was given his gimmick by Verne in the AWA. Volkoff had been doing that role for a number of years. How many guys in the mid-to-late 80s did Vince really create from scratch. Then you have the attitude era which Hunter is even on record saying that Vince came to the guys in the back and said he could no longer just slap a gimmick on a guy and make them a star. It was basically up to the performers to come up with and create their gimmicks. Look at how he packaged some of his biggest attitude era stars originally: Austin was the ringmaster, the Rock was a goofy babyface, Triple H was a Connecticut-blue blood snob, Kane was a dentist, he loathed the Cactus Jack character, Shawn was a babyface even though he's always been better as a heel. The new age outlaws were re-packages of the Honky Tonk Man and Double J Jeff Jarrett. He lucked into a lot of things. Also, he thought the Mr. McMahon character would be a babyface even though all the guys in the back were telling him it would be a heel gimmick. 100%. I'm always rolling my eyes at the endless claims of Vince being a creative genius. For me, he lost whatever instinctive touch he had by the early 90s at the latest.
He was a great promoter in being the one guy who was ambitious/skilled/ruthless (take your pick) enough to take his territory national and to tap into the potential overseas, but someone else may well have done that sooner or later anyway. At lot of it was about the right timing with the expansion of the PPV model and satellite technology right through to the network in the streaming era.
He did understand that big, brash characters and the razzmatazz of intro music and properly lit arenas, with a sprinkling of celebrity involvement, worked and that these factor were probably more important than the in-ring quality when it comes to appealing to the greatest number of people.
This right here is the best way to describe Vince. He was a great promoter. He put his company on the right track. He was able to see that to reach a larger audience you needed more than just great wrestlers, you needed over the top characters and larger than life personas. I also give him credit for seeing that younger fans could be a bigger boon for wrestling than continuing to court the same old crowd. Children, through their parents, will buy all sorts of merchandise, which will bring in more revenue which will help you hire more talent, or the top talent, to keep your business growing. He was also very smart in the 90s buying up old tape libraries from other companies, that has been a huge asset to the company over the last 20 years. Look at how much these streaming companies are willing to pay him for the wrestling library. Very smart. However, when it comes to creating long lasting characters from scratch, he doesn't have the best track record. |
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Sept 23, 2024 13:29:25 GMT -5
I wonder if we would have had Austin vs. HBK vs. Bret in a 3 way for the WWF Title?? Just because Austin "won" the Rumble, and I remember they were gonna have the final 4 at the next In Your House to decide a true winner from that Rumble, but who's to say that Austin wouldn't have screwed that one up too with cheating to win, when Bret should have won, and Gino Monsoon says, "that's it! I can't take it anymore, at Wrestlemania 13 we will have the first time ever three men wrestling to decide who the WWF Champion shall be at the end of the night. WWF Champion Shawn Michaels will defend his WWF Title against "Stone Cold" Steve Austin and... Bret "Hitman" Hart!"
Because I can't see where Austin would fit on that show if he didn't wrestle Bret.
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Post by hbkjason on Sept 23, 2024 23:27:00 GMT -5
They were scheduled to wrestle at KOTR 97 but Brets knee injury prevented it and we got HBK vs Austin instead. Had this match got in the ring? how do we think it would have effected events, Backstage issues etc.... I think if the match goes down at King of the Ring it would end with Austin interfering, again, no way HBK is putting Bret over even without the belt on the line. Come to think of it, did Shawn Michaels lose any matches in 1997? Before he lost to Austin at WMXIV, when was the last time he lost clean to someone in a match. |
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Post by JokerFC on Sept 24, 2024 3:01:05 GMT -5
They were scheduled to wrestle at KOTR 97 but Brets knee injury prevented it and we got HBK vs Austin instead. Had this match got in the ring? how do we think it would have effected events, Backstage issues etc.... I think if the match goes down at King of the Ring it would end with Austin interfering, again, no way HBK is putting Bret over even without the belt on the line. Come to think of it, did Shawn Michaels lose any matches in 1997? Before he lost to Austin at WMXIV, when was the last time he lost clean to someone in a match. I think it was Diesel at WM11..... |
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sinfony
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Post by sinfony on Sept 24, 2024 3:08:24 GMT -5
They were scheduled to wrestle at KOTR 97 but Brets knee injury prevented it and we got HBK vs Austin instead. Had this match got in the ring? how do we think it would have effected events, Backstage issues etc.... I think if the match goes down at King of the Ring it would end with Austin interfering, again, no way HBK is putting Bret over even without the belt on the line. Come to think of it, did Shawn Michaels lose any matches in 1997? Before he lost to Austin at WMXIV, when was the last time he lost clean to someone in a match. Sid at Survivor Series 1996 (though he probably already knew that this was a pretext to him winning the belt back at the Rumble in front of a hometown crowd where they needed Shawn to be the challenger to sell that many tickets).
His only other televised losses (pre-semi retirement) after breaking through and winning the IC title in 1992 were Diesel (WM11), Razor (WM10 ladder match), the IC title loss to Jannetty on Raw in May 1993 and the Survivor Series 1992 loss to Bret.
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nibs92
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Post by nibs92 on Sept 25, 2024 0:51:58 GMT -5
I think if the match goes down at King of the Ring it would end with Austin interfering, again, no way HBK is putting Bret over even without the belt on the line. Come to think of it, did Shawn Michaels lose any matches in 1997? Before he lost to Austin at WMXIV, when was the last time he lost clean to someone in a match. Sid at Survivor Series 1996 (though he probably already knew that this was a pretext to him winning the belt back at the Rumble in front of a hometown crowd where they needed Shawn to be the challenger to sell that many tickets).
His only other televised losses (pre-semi retirement) after breaking through and winning the IC title in 1992 were Diesel (WM11), Razor (WM10 ladder match), the IC title loss to Jannetty on Raw in May 1993 and the Survivor Series 1992 loss to Bret.
He also had a non title loss to Tatanka on Superstars in 93. Still an impressive win loss record though! |
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sinfony
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Post by sinfony on Sept 25, 2024 4:58:01 GMT -5
Sid at Survivor Series 1996 (though he probably already knew that this was a pretext to him winning the belt back at the Rumble in front of a hometown crowd where they needed Shawn to be the challenger to sell that many tickets).
His only other televised losses (pre-semi retirement) after breaking through and winning the IC title in 1992 were Diesel (WM11), Razor (WM10 ladder match), the IC title loss to Jannetty on Raw in May 1993 and the Survivor Series 1992 loss to Bret.
He also had a non title loss to Tatanka on Superstars in 93. Still an impressive win loss record though! True, I forgot about that weird idea of non-title matches. I get it when you would wrestle jobbers or a low-level "superstar" (the likes of Skinner or Repo Man) right before a title match at a PPV as you could justify it as the champion wanting a decent warm-up opponent before the big title match, but having a genuine title candidate just wrestle without the title on the line always decidedly seemed odd to me.
What motivation were either wrestler supposed to have? And in this case it was even odder given that they were going to put the exact same match that you already got to see on TV for free on the very next PPV.
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nibs92
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Post by nibs92 on Sept 25, 2024 12:23:03 GMT -5
He also had a non title loss to Tatanka on Superstars in 93. Still an impressive win loss record though! True, I forgot about that weird idea of non-title matches. I get it when you would wrestle jobbers or a low-level "superstar" (the likes of Skinner or Repo Man) right before a title match at a PPV as you could justify it as the champion wanting a decent warm-up opponent before the big title match, but having a genuine title candidate just wrestle without the title on the line always decidedly seemed odd to me. What motivation were either wrestler supposed to have? And in this case it was even odder given that they were going to put the exact same match that you already got to see on TV for free on the very next PPV.
I’m watching that time period just now, so fresh in my mind. I agree with you regarding the non - title match. On the Raw after, there was a six man match teaming Shawn with the Beverley Brothers against Tatanka and the Nasty Boys. Tatanka pinned Shawn in that one. That match made sense to me and having Tatanka pin the champ in that environment adds to the build for the title match. But having a non title for a match already booked for the next PPV is nonsense. |
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Sept 25, 2024 12:38:02 GMT -5
True, I forgot about that weird idea of non-title matches. I get it when you would wrestle jobbers or a low-level "superstar" (the likes of Skinner or Repo Man) right before a title match at a PPV as you could justify it as the champion wanting a decent warm-up opponent before the big title match, but having a genuine title candidate just wrestle without the title on the line always decidedly seemed odd to me. What motivation were either wrestler supposed to have? And in this case it was even odder given that they were going to put the exact same match that you already got to see on TV for free on the very next PPV.
I’m watching that time period just now, so fresh in my mind. I agree with you regarding the non - title match. On the Raw after, there was a six man match teaming Shawn with the Beverley Brothers against Tatanka and the Nasty Boys. Tatanka pinned Shawn in that one. That match made sense to me and having Tatanka pin the champ in that environment adds to the build for the title match. But having a non title for a match already booked for the next PPV is nonsense.
I am pretty sure Tatanka pinned HBK on Superstars right after the Royal Rumble event, and then like a week or so later on Raw he got pinned again to Tatanka. It was at that show where HBK blew out his shoulder too if my memory recalls correctly.
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