Kick Your Face
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Real Join Date: Sep 2003
Joined on: Nov 25, 2007 17:32:21 GMT -5
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Post by Kick Your Face on Jun 13, 2008 15:15:26 GMT -5
Here's how I'd place the biggest stars in AJPW based on years.
1990 - Jumbo Tsuruta (Up until the 6/8/90 Misawa loss, he was All Japan. That can go all the way back to 1978 or even 1976. When you think of All Japan, two faces pop straight into your head. And those two faces are Giant Baba and Jumbo Tsuruta. By this time, Baba was already working low card six-man tag team comedy matches with Mighty Inoue, Rusher Kimura, Haruka Eigen, Motoshi Okuma, etc., so Jumbo took over. I'd say he had taken over as the top guy for a good twelve years; despite Baba being the promoter.)
1991 - Mitsuharu Misawa, Stan Hansen and Jumbo Tsuruta (Tsuruta began to fade away as a the soul top guy after the loss to Misawa. Others began getting the same recognition. I would have definitely listed Kawada here. But he never got that "victory" that put him over as one of the top guys. This would change in 1992, though. Although if you did say he deserves it, I would totally understand what you mean. It's just that Misawa got that victory over Jumbo, who was AJPW's top guy and Kawada didn't.)
1992 - Mitsuharu Misawa, Stan Hansen, Toshiaki Kawada and Jumbo Tsuruta
1993 - Mitsuharu Misawa and Toshiaki Kawada (After Tsuruta's return in September 1993, he was never the same again. He was reduced to the comedy schedule. Although still over as he ever was, he just didn't have what it took anymore (in-ring wise) to carry the company.)
1994 - Mitsuharu Misawa and Toshiaki Kawada
1995 - Mitsuharu Misawa, Toshiaki Kawada and Kenta Kobashi
1996 - Kenta Kobashi, Jun Akiyama and Akira Taue (Akiyama really stepped up this year, especially in the 12/6/96 tag match. Taue stepped up because of his obvious Triple Crown win over Misawa on 5/24/96. Then Kobashi would win the Triple Crown Championship exactly two months later.)
1997 - Kenta Kobashi and Mitsuharu Misawa
1998 - Kenta Kobashi and Toshiaki Kawada
1999 - Kenta Kobashi, Mitsuharu Misawa and Vader (I really wanted to place Kawada in here. But if you took this all the way back to 1992, this was probably his worst year since then and the obvious 1997, of course. Vader was a monster this year in All Japan.)
So pretty much after 1994, Kobashi was right up there with the best in AJPW. In 1995, he showed that he could be up there with the best, definitely proving that with his one hour draw against Toshiaki Kawada on 1/19/95. In 1996, he finally won the big one and solidified himself as one of the top guys in All Japan, right up there with Misawa and Kawada.
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jlavaia
Main Eventer
Joined on: Oct 25, 2007 20:27:47 GMT -5
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Post by jlavaia on Jun 13, 2008 15:58:01 GMT -5
Here's how I'd place the biggest stars in AJPW based on years. 1990 - Jumbo Tsuruta (Up until the 6/8/90 Misawa loss, he was All Japan. That can go all the way back to 1978 or even 1976. When you think of All Japan, two faces pop straight into your head. And those two faces are Giant Baba and Jumbo Tsuruta. By this time, Baba was already working low card six-man tag team comedy matches with Mighty Inoue, Rusher Kimura, Haruka Eigen, Motoshi Okuma, etc., so Jumbo took over. I'd say he had taken over as the top guy for a good twelve years; despite Baba being the promoter.) 1991 - Mitsuharu Misawa, Stan Hansen and Jumbo Tsuruta (Tsuruta began to fade away as a the soul top guy after the loss to Misawa. Others began getting the same recognition. I would have definitely listed Kawada here. But he never got that "victory" that put him over as one of the top guys. This would change in 1992, though. Although if you did say he deserves it, I would totally understand what you mean. It's just that Misawa got that victory over Jumbo, who was AJPW's top guy and Kawada didn't.) 1992 - Mitsuharu Misawa, Stan Hansen, Toshiaki Kawada and Jumbo Tsuruta 1993 - Mitsuharu Misawa and Toshiaki Kawada (After Tsuruta's return in September 1993, he was never the same again. He was reduced to the comedy schedule. Although still over as he ever was, he just didn't have what it took anymore (in-ring wise) to carry the company.) 1994 - Mitsuharu Misawa and Toshiaki Kawada 1995 - Mitsuharu Misawa, Toshiaki Kawada and Kenta Kobashi 1996 - Kenta Kobashi, Jun Akiyama and Akira Taue (Akiyama really stepped up this year, especially in the 12/6/96 tag match. Taue stepped up because of his obvious Triple Crown win over Misawa on 5/24/96. Then Kobashi would win the Triple Crown Championship exactly two months later.) 1997 - Kenta Kobashi and Mitsuharu Misawa 1998 - Kenta Kobashi and Toshiaki Kawada 1999 - Kenta Kobashi, Mitsuharu Misawa and Vader (I really wanted to place Kawada in here. But if you took this all the way back to 1992, this was probably his worst year since then and the obvious 1997, of course. Vader was a monster this year in All Japan.) So pretty much after 1994, Kobashi was right up there with the best in AJPW. In 1995, he showed that he could be up there with the best, definitely proving that with his one hour draw against Toshiaki Kawada on 1/19/95. In 1996, he finally won the big one and solidified himself as one of the top guys in All Japan, right up there with Misawa and Kawada. that's good. i'd add Taue to 1994 and 1995 though, and Kobashi to 94. Holy Demon Army vs. Misawa/Kobashi dominated 94 and 95. it was the final for the Real World Tag League both years and those were the main teams feuding for the tag titles and those 4 guys were the ones getting Triple Crown shots as well. |
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Post by carly1988 on Jun 13, 2008 16:06:39 GMT -5
I think another thing to be noted here is the very different styles of Japanese and American wrestling. Its really unfair to compare a Misawa/Kobashi/Muta to a Flair/Hogan/Race because of the different styles. It would be like comparing General Tso Chicken to a Big Mac. Sure its both food but its from two totally different parts of the globe.
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jlavaia
Main Eventer
Joined on: Oct 25, 2007 20:27:47 GMT -5
Posts: 1,310
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Post by jlavaia on Jun 13, 2008 17:45:24 GMT -5
I think another thing to be noted here is the very different styles of Japanese and American wrestling. Its really unfair to compare a Misawa/Kobashi/Muta to a Flair/Hogan/Race because of the different styles. It would be like comparing General Tso Chicken to a Big Mac. Sure its both food but its from two totally different parts of the globe. actually both of those foods are from the same country. bad example. you cant that in China, it's made by take out places in the US, and that's where it originated. |
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Post by mrchase on Jun 13, 2008 19:52:48 GMT -5
Another reason why I hate Vince McMahon. Flair isn't even doing anything for WWE right now. So why the  can't he go to an event for a company that isn't even in WWE's league. see you are wrong about flair doing nothing for WWe . falir has his new Dvd coming july 8 to promotr with WWE .flair is coming back to WWe to promote the book & could be the new raw GM.so don't get mad at mcmahon for doing right for his own company . |
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Post by Swarm on Jun 13, 2008 23:09:14 GMT -5
Here's how I'd place the biggest stars in AJPW based on years. 1990 - Jumbo Tsuruta (Up until the 6/8/90 Misawa loss, he was All Japan. That can go all the way back to 1978 or even 1976. When you think of All Japan, two faces pop straight into your head. And those two faces are Giant Baba and Jumbo Tsuruta. By this time, Baba was already working low card six-man tag team comedy matches with Mighty Inoue, Rusher Kimura, Haruka Eigen, Motoshi Okuma, etc., so Jumbo took over. I'd say he had taken over as the top guy for a good twelve years; despite Baba being the promoter.) 1991 - Mitsuharu Misawa, Stan Hansen and Jumbo Tsuruta (Tsuruta began to fade away as a the soul top guy after the loss to Misawa. Others began getting the same recognition. I would have definitely listed Kawada here. But he never got that "victory" that put him over as one of the top guys. This would change in 1992, though. Although if you did say he deserves it, I would totally understand what you mean. It's just that Misawa got that victory over Jumbo, who was AJPW's top guy and Kawada didn't.) 1992 - Mitsuharu Misawa, Stan Hansen, Toshiaki Kawada and Jumbo Tsuruta 1993 - Mitsuharu Misawa and Toshiaki Kawada (After Tsuruta's return in September 1993, he was never the same again. He was reduced to the comedy schedule. Although still over as he ever was, he just didn't have what it took anymore (in-ring wise) to carry the company.) 1994 - Mitsuharu Misawa and Toshiaki Kawada 1995 - Mitsuharu Misawa, Toshiaki Kawada and Kenta Kobashi 1996 - Kenta Kobashi, Jun Akiyama and Akira Taue (Akiyama really stepped up this year, especially in the 12/6/96 tag match. Taue stepped up because of his obvious Triple Crown win over Misawa on 5/24/96. Then Kobashi would win the Triple Crown Championship exactly two months later.) 1997 - Kenta Kobashi and Mitsuharu Misawa 1998 - Kenta Kobashi and Toshiaki Kawada 1999 - Kenta Kobashi, Mitsuharu Misawa and Vader (I really wanted to place Kawada in here. But if you took this all the way back to 1992, this was probably his worst year since then and the obvious 1997, of course. Vader was a monster this year in All Japan.) So pretty much after 1994, Kobashi was right up there with the best in AJPW. In 1995, he showed that he could be up there with the best, definitely proving that with his one hour draw against Toshiaki Kawada on 1/19/95. In 1996, he finally won the big one and solidified himself as one of the top guys in All Japan, right up there with Misawa and Kawada. But Kawada's the man! You broke my heart Fredo, you broke my heart!  ... Yeah. I mean I guess it's always gonna be subjective, but to me Kawada was always the worker of the 90s. He was never as heroic or as flashy as Misawa or Kobashi, but he could have an incredible match with anybody (Gary Albright, anyone?) and I think his quest to pin Misawa was the best angle of the 90s around the board. My analogy has always been that Misawa was Superman and Kawada was Batman. Superman was the poster boy hero but Batman was always a more interesting person and had much deeper pathos. Go Kawada! |
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Kick Your Face
Main Eventer
Real Join Date: Sep 2003
Joined on: Nov 25, 2007 17:32:21 GMT -5
Posts: 3,141
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Post by Kick Your Face on Jun 13, 2008 23:11:21 GMT -5
I love Kawada, too. But he was mis-booked a lot in the 90s. Misawa was always favored over him.
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Nirvana is Happiness
Main Eventer
R.I.P Heath Ledger, we will never forget you.
Joined on: Jun 4, 2005 21:15:06 GMT -5
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Post by Nirvana is Happiness on Jun 13, 2008 23:52:33 GMT -5
I love Kawada, too. But he was mis-booked a lot in the 90s. Misawa was always favored over him. Agreed. Look, even in their final encounter in 05 Misawa could have finally let Kawada have the final big moment, but Misawa wouldnt have it, and won. |
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Post by Swarm on Jun 14, 2008 6:07:11 GMT -5
I love Kawada, too. But he was mis-booked a lot in the 90s. Misawa was always favored over him. I think it was a case of AJPW style booking (which NOAH still utilizes today) of waiting too long to pull the trigger. I think if Kawada would've gotten his big singles win over Misawa earlier, it would've had a greater overall effect. Unfortunately, they waited way too long and it kind of lost it's luster. You see that now in NOAH in the way that they've mishandled Marufuji, KENTA, and even Morishima to some extent. |
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Post by OmegaGaijin on Jun 14, 2008 9:19:51 GMT -5
this is on of the better theads i have read in a while,well for entertainment purposes anyway lol.
to think i was getting fed up with this forum?
anyway back to topic,this is somthing i would like to see,and it would be nice of wwe if they let some of there 'big' employes head over to roh from time to time,but its unrealistic aswell. we can all dream
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Kick Your Face
Main Eventer
Real Join Date: Sep 2003
Joined on: Nov 25, 2007 17:32:21 GMT -5
Posts: 3,141
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Post by Kick Your Face on Jun 14, 2008 11:04:48 GMT -5
I love Kawada, too. But he was mis-booked a lot in the 90s. Misawa was always favored over him. I think it was a case of AJPW style booking (which NOAH still utilizes today) of waiting too long to pull the trigger. I think if Kawada would've gotten his big singles win over Misawa earlier, it would've had a greater overall effect. Unfortunately, they waited way too long and it kind of lost it's luster. You see that now in NOAH in the way that they've mishandled Marufuji, KENTA, and even Morishima to some extent. Yeah, I totally agree. It's unfortunate Kawada was injured in 1999 and had to forfeit the title. I think he would have had a great 1999. |
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Post by flairfan36 on Jun 14, 2008 17:25:23 GMT -5
That would have been ing EPIC. |
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Post by Flyrfn144 on Jun 15, 2008 0:02:27 GMT -5
Another reason why I hate Vince McMahon. Flair isn't even doing anything for WWE right now. So why the can't he go to an event for a company that isn't even in WWE's league. see you are wrong about flair doing nothing for WWe . falir has his new Dvd coming july 8 to promotr with WWE .flair is coming back to WWe to promote the book & could be the new raw GM.so don't get mad at mcmahon for doing right for his own company . Flair is not going to be the new GM. Oh, but I must have forgot that you know nothing about wrestling. |
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Post by rock21 on Jun 15, 2008 0:31:59 GMT -5
I'd be all for it if a 30 minute chop battle ensued.
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Post by Thick Justice on Jun 15, 2008 6:03:23 GMT -5
Kenta was great. It is impossible to tell who has had the most classics though.
Too the Misawa vs Kenta thing I'll put up some facts.
Kenta: 24 5 star matches from Meltzer
Misawa: 23 5 star matches
Kenta 5 single matches not involving Misawa that got 5 stars
Misawa 7 5 star single matches not involving Kenta.
Needless too say I think it's pretty hard to tell. Either way I think you have to say these two are some of the best in history. I vote Misawa.
Well Flair he came from the US which well quite frankly has a record for worst matches.
Both Kenta and Misawa have had more 5 star matches than every US company in history.
Other than AJPW these two men have more 5 star matches than any pro wrestling company.
But I agree that would of been epic. Possibly the greatest japanese wrestler face too face with possibly the greatest American wrestler.
People says who cares they have no history.
So what Hulk and Flair had very little history when they faced eachother in WCW. It was huge because it was the biggest stars meeting face too face.
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Post by fallenhero on Jun 15, 2008 17:31:24 GMT -5
Kenta was great. It is impossible to tell who has had the most classics though. Too the Misawa vs Kenta thing I'll put up some facts. Kenta: 24 5 star matches from Meltzer Misawa: 23 5 star matches Kenta 5 single matches not involving Misawa that got 5 stars Misawa 7 5 star single matches not involving Kenta. Needless too say I think it's pretty hard to tell. Either way I think you have to say these two are some of the best in history. I vote Misawa. Well Flair he came from the US which well quite frankly has a record for worst matches. Both Kenta and Misawa have had more 5 star matches than every US company in history. Other than AJPW these two men have more 5 star matches than any pro wrestling company. But I agree that would of been epic. Possibly the greatest japanese wrestler face too face with possibly the greatest American wrestler. People says who cares they have no history. So what Hulk and Flair had very little history when they faced eachother in WCW. It was huge because it was the biggest stars meeting face too face. For the love of , he's KOBASHI. Not Kenta. Kenta is a ing junior heavyweight and his name is in all capital letters. And this thread doesn't discuss them coming to WWE, or you getting figures of them, so why are you posting in it? |
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Post by TeamExtreme718x on Jun 16, 2008 14:31:32 GMT -5
This would be one of the best moments in wrestling history..
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