#Heel
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Jan 7, 2012 4:53:15 GMT -5
Posts: 211
|
Post by #Heel on Apr 13, 2023 14:56:46 GMT -5
You said people who look at it differently are “objectively wrong”. They are not. Most understand at 5K you are getting one Ultimate (Rey) and the stage for $400. While some might not understand the actual production cost of the stage, many (myself included) do. However the value just isn’t there for many without all 5 figures. I am not disputing the production cost I am discussing the value. It’s no different than if on shark tank there is $20 jar of organic peanut butter and the production costs as to how it helps farmers/the planet etc. is there but nobody finds the value in a $20 jar of organic peanut butter. While it might be worth it for all it is doing….the customer isn’t finding much value in it and doesn’t care enough to pay $20 for peanut butter even if it is for a good cause. Yes, they are objectively wrong...period, even if they "don't understand," they are wrong. Hence why I am explaining it to them. People are entitled to opinions, but that doesn't mean they should just go through life ignorant of the truth. AGAIN, for the thousandth time...if people can't justify the cost...THATS FINE. What's not ok, is arriving at that conclusion from the false perspective that we're looking at 5 $35 figures and a $225 Stage...that is, in fact objectively false. I’m not going to keep going back and forth with this. You can look at it the way you want (without the figures included) and they can look at it with. Regardless it has to be valuable to the consumer. Right now 2020 people find the value in it and 2980 people don’t. Time will tell what happens but if it was looking good Mattel wouldn’t be looking to pivot. I’ll just leave this here. What is customer value? Customer value is best defined as how much a product or service is worth to a customer. It's a measure of all the costs and benefits associated with a product or service. Examples include price, quality, and what the product or service can do for that particular person. There are also monetary, time, energy, and emotional costs that consumers consider when evaluating the value of a purchase.
|
|
#Heel
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Jan 7, 2012 4:53:15 GMT -5
Posts: 211
|
Post by #Heel on Apr 13, 2023 14:20:11 GMT -5
It IS really simple - value is in the eyes of the consumer, so you throwing out blanket statements about your opinion and calling it fact is dumb. I think the value is there. I can't DIY a stage of this size and detail with electronics for anywhere close to $400. There are intangible values as well such as the nostalgia, but I won't go into that. It's funny seeing someone who is a "business" professional be so unable to grasp simple marketing, sales, and business ideologies yes so firmly believe they know everything. You can see that value in the stage but if most collectors agreed with you it would be funded by now. Aren’t you the guy who said you didn’t have the money to back it until after the early backer Hogan failed? Yeah real smart with your money that you don’t even have a credit card with $500 availability to fund the project. That’s the minimum most even with low credit scores are approved for. I don’t think I would take any financial advice from you. I personally don’t care about your financial situation and wouldn’t bring it up but since you want to attack my business and marketing skills then it’s fair game. I understand how marketing works. I never said I could DIY the stage please show me where I personally said that. Once again I am NOT discussing production costs. I am discussing value to the consumer. I am not saying for fact that it isn’t worth it to everyone. I am saying for a large majority who haven’t backed it (at the very least 2980 people) they don’t see the value in it. How are you this hard headed? No one is disputing what it costs to make. I am discussing the value to the consumer which isn’t there. Keep being stupid with your money which is why you didn’t have it in the first place.
|
|
#Heel
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Jan 7, 2012 4:53:15 GMT -5
Posts: 211
|
Post by #Heel on Apr 13, 2023 14:02:42 GMT -5
You said people who look at it differently are “objectively wrong”. They are not. Most understand at 5K you are getting one Ultimate (Rey) and the stage for $400. While some might not understand the actual production cost of the stage, many (myself included) do. However the value just isn’t there for many without all 5 figures. I am not disputing the production cost I am discussing the value. It’s no different than if on shark tank there is $20 jar of organic peanut butter and the production costs as to how it helps farmers/the planet etc. is there but nobody finds the value in a $20 jar of organic peanut butter. While it might be worth it for all it is doing….the customer isn’t finding much value in it and doesn’t care enough to pay $20 for peanut butter even if it is for a good cause. if they wouldn’t make profit at 11k backers and all 5 figures unlocked, they wouldn’t have done this or would have made the tiers and/or price higher there’s no way they’re risking taking a loss so that collectors can get some rare figures When did I ever say Mattel would take a loss? Once again I NEVER said they should take a loss. I said the value isn’t there for the consumer. That doesn’t mean they should take a loss. That just means that the production cost they were able to get the stage down to still wasn’t worth the price being offered to the consumer. That’s it. That is why this crowd funding is failing and that’s okay. The production cost for many items have gone up rapidly in the past several years. Mattel wouldn’t happy taking a loss and the consumer isn’t happy with the product they are being offered for the price point. It’s really simple. Let’s not overcomplicate things. I think you’re getting this confused with the other guy mentioning them not taking a loss like Sony or Microsoft does for their consoles. When I mention a PS5 I’m saying that there are other things on the market for that price point that the consumer finds more value in. Nothing to do with production costs.
|
|
#Heel
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Jan 7, 2012 4:53:15 GMT -5
Posts: 211
|
Post by #Heel on Apr 13, 2023 13:45:07 GMT -5
Most here know how it works. People like you are the reason this won’t get backed. You are trying so desperately to get others to think like you and they just don’t. You can look at it as “bonuses” if that’s what helps you sleep at night. Others don’t see the value in this. No one is disputing what it actually costs to make. They are disputing the cost vs value to the customer. Have you never watched an episode of Shark Tank? If not I highly suggest watching it because you really just don’t get it. 😂😂😂😂😂 I actually don't think most people know how it works...otherwise I wouldn't have to keep pointing this out lol It's not a matter of making people think like I do. It's a straight up fact, not up for debate that the figures are bonuses. The Stage + Rey is the $400 product...this isn't a matter of opinion, it's not a debatable topic. The problem is, people ARE debating what it costs...I've seen people mention what they can buy from customizers. Even the idea of including the figures as part of the $400 "value" diminishes what the stage is worth. Because if you're arguing that Stage + 5 figures = $400 product, you're insinuating (whether consciously or unconsciously) that the stage cost less than it does to produce... I'm not trying to convince anyone of what they should be doing with their money...that's on them. If they can't justify spending $400 on this, that's fine, their call. But I am gonna point out when people are viewing the project from a completely inaccurate perspective. If you don't want to hear it, don't read it or respond. You said people who look at it differently are “objectively wrong”. They are not. Most understand at 5K you are getting one Ultimate (Rey) and the stage for $400. While some might not understand the actual production cost of the stage, many (myself included) do. However the value just isn’t there for many without all 5 figures. I am not disputing the production cost I am discussing the value. It’s no different than if on shark tank there is $20 jar of organic peanut butter and the production costs as to how it helps farmers/the planet etc. is there but nobody finds the value in a $20 jar of organic peanut butter. While it might be worth it for all it is doing….the customer isn’t finding much value in it and doesn’t care enough to pay $20 for peanut butter even if it is for a good cause.
|
|
#Heel
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Jan 7, 2012 4:53:15 GMT -5
Posts: 211
|
Post by #Heel on Apr 13, 2023 13:10:14 GMT -5
I have two business degrees and have started several businesses. I don’t think I need you to “explain to me how it works”. Apparently I do... You keep making this argument, and I do see where you're coming from with it. Unfortunately, the issue is that although you are correct in saying that the other figures are "free/bonus" items, that's not the way people are viewing it. The vast majority of people are viewing it through the lens of "with all figures, it's good value, with less than 5, it's not good value". That is the part that you have to work with. It doesn't matter what is or is not included in the core offering; the majority have seemingly decided that it's not worth the asking price, unless it comes as a full set (and to be honest, I'd be in agreement with that line of thinking).
I haven't backed it (not a big enough WCW fan) but with all figures included, even I'd jump on board. I do appreciate that saying this doesn't help though, as Steve has confirmed that interfering with the tiers isn't possible, but that'd be my honest opinion, and i reckon if they just packaged it as a stage and 5 figures, they'd get a lot more backers (maybe not the 11k they need, though).
I keep making the argument because it is the only way it should be looked at. As I said, people can look at it differently, but they are objectively wrong for doing so. They are not comprehending how the process works...What it does, is lead to people making the argument that the Stage is "worth" $250 after you subtract the $35 per Ultimate we miss out on... Most here know how it works. People like you are the reason this won’t get backed. You are trying so desperately to get others to think like you and they just don’t. You can look at it as “bonuses” if that’s what helps you sleep at night. Others don’t see the value in this. No one is disputing what it actually costs to make. They are disputing the cost vs value to the customer. Have you never watched an episode of Shark Tank? If not I highly suggest watching it because you really just don’t get it.
|
|
#Heel
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Jan 7, 2012 4:53:15 GMT -5
Posts: 211
|
Post by #Heel on Apr 13, 2023 9:10:58 GMT -5
Let’s not exaggerate nobody was “screaming” for this stage. Was there interest? Yes. Would there be the same amount of interest at this price point and the current line up of figures if it was revealed last year? Clearly there isn’t or it would have been backed by now. Price and the figures offered make a huge difference between “I want it” and “I don’t see the value in it”. Stahppppp The feedback to seeing this thing was overwhelmingly positive. The reality of the matter is that it's easy to say you're down no matter what until it actually comes time to drop the cash on it Feedback doesn’t always translate to sales. As I mentioned the feedback was good, I wouldn’t say people were “screaming for one” but the small audience on here wanted it….until they seen the price. Price is a HUGE part of the buying process. When it was shown Mattel didn’t show the price or figures it was coming with. So collectors likely had a different price in mind or different figures the crowd fund would come with. Wanting a product and buying a product are completely different. Mattel didn’t make this a must have. There are plenty of better ways to spend $400 especially with summer right around the corner. The figure choices were lackluster and now Mattel is paying the price for that. Even if they add Steiner this crowd fund has lost so much momentum and the cost for two Ultimate Editions and a stage just isn’t the value that people are looking for.
|
|
#Heel
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Jan 7, 2012 4:53:15 GMT -5
Posts: 211
|
Post by #Heel on Apr 12, 2023 23:27:38 GMT -5
Maybe im wrong but i feel like the breakdown was and always had been $175 for the 5 exclusive ultimates and $225 for the stage. I was more than willing to support this product breakdown. But the less figures included the less value i see. Rey and the stage is not a $400 buy/deal. And with 3000 more purchases to go i dont think im wrong so far. Time will tell… yes, actually you are wrong... The breakdown is Stage + Rey = $400 Anyone complaining about why this crowdfund has died need to realise Mattel offered a product that people didn’t want, at a price people didn’t want to pay. I hope it makes them realise they need to sweeten the deal on future crowdfunds and don’t screw international customers over No, Mattel offered a product that when it was first shown in public, people screamed they had to have it no matter the cost...but when it came time to actually buy it...well, yeah... Let’s not exaggerate nobody was “screaming” for this stage. Was there interest? Yes. Would there be the same amount of interest at this price point and the current line up of figures if it was revealed last year? Clearly there isn’t or it would have been backed by now. Price and the figures offered make a huge difference between “I want it” and “I don’t see the value in it”.
|
|
#Heel
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Jan 7, 2012 4:53:15 GMT -5
Posts: 211
|
Post by #Heel on Apr 12, 2023 18:26:38 GMT -5
Anyone complaining about why this crowdfund has died need to realise Mattel offered a product that people didn’t want, at a price people didn’t want to pay. I hope it makes them realise they need to sweeten the deal on future crowdfunds and don’t screw international customers over False. All of it. Mattel may have mishandled the introduction and presentation initially but it’s something a lot of people wanted. People didn’t want a ring. But a Nitro or Raw stage with Ultimates was more welcome than anything else. People wanted RAW way more than they wanted Nitro. People wanted Nitro until they seen the price and the awful choice of figures the stage came with. Everyone is overlooking how important the price is. People often say they want something…until they see the price of it. It was shown without a price and without the figures it would be coming with. If the price and figures were shown with the stage a year ago with the tiers included it would have gotten the same reaction.
|
|
#Heel
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Jan 7, 2012 4:53:15 GMT -5
Posts: 211
|
Post by #Heel on Apr 9, 2023 19:09:29 GMT -5
I’m hoping I don’t get banned for speaking my opinion on this but it’s easy to blame the collector. Did people say they wanted this? Yeah but people say they want many things until the price comes into play. I don’t think many found the value in this set for $400 and the figure choices were poor. Starting with Rey at 5K & then Hogan as the early backer bonus was not the way to go. I also personally feel a little wronged as a collector because for the New Generation one (which I did want) we were told back that to get what a lot of really wanted (Raw Is War) and then this crowd fund was Nitro instead. I also lost interest when it was confirmed Raw Is War would cost more. I’m sorry but I can’t justify the cost of a PS5 for an LED stage that I also don’t even have room fot and that’s assuming the RAW stage is $500. It could be $600 or maybe $700. I think people want these things but I don’t think they want them for the price offered. If the cost can’t be brought down for RAW or Nitro I don’t see much of a demand for either one. The figure choices are also really important and the choices for this crowd fund were just underwhelming. Furthermore I don’t want to keep buying rings and would have preferred an expansion back to turn Raw into Nitro. I can’t store 3 Mattel rings (plus two Jazwares rings) and two huge stages. I just don’t have the room. I also think it isn’t doing well because most WCW fans stopped watching wrestling over 20 years ago. If another crowd fund ever happens, it would be helpful to get the presumed price along with the expected figures to see if people truly want the item or have an interest in the entire product at that price point. The New Generation arena succeeded because you really can’t argue that a ring, light up stage, 3 Ultimate Editions, an announce table, ring skirts, and an extra backdrop diorama wasn’t worth $250. It absolutely was and the tiers were fair enough to unlock and with figures people had an interest in. Just my take on the entire thing. I’m definitely not blaming the collector. The crowdfund campaign is the test to see if the item should become a reality. It’s just a few steps beyond all that work that needs to happen to get the cost anyway so even if we just asked “do you want the Nitro stage at $400?”, the bulk of the upfront work would have been done. I’ve addressed the rings/add-ons/conversions many times. I think I did a pretty good job giving details on the aic podcast (@aic_podcast on IG) dropping on the 10th if you want to take the time to listen. I know you want conversion kits and I want to get there. It’s just not realistic at this moment in time. I know some would have preferred the RAW stage first but if you think there was backlash at $400 for Nitro, what would have happened with RAW having to be even more expensive. Nitro first allows us to get some potential shared tooling banked so RAW can be less expensive and have a bit less sticker shock. And I fully don’t expect every single consumer to buy both. Will there be some overlap? Sure. But ultimately, buy what you want to buy. So really, do we as a collective community want the stage given the realities of the price? We’ll see in a month. I do think there would be backlash to Raw Is War at a higher price point. Explaining that Nitro would bring down the cost for Raw Is War so it isn’t a sticker shock makes sense. However it brining down the cost but still being more expensive is where I think the disconnect is. Based on what I’ve been reading I think Raw Is War is gonna be hard sell especially if it’s above a $400 price point. An LED stage should never cost more than a PS5. I think a slightly smaller scale would have been better and most wouldn’t mind too much.
|
|
#Heel
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Jan 7, 2012 4:53:15 GMT -5
Posts: 211
|
Post by #Heel on Apr 9, 2023 18:27:06 GMT -5
I’m hoping I don’t get banned for speaking my opinion on this but it’s easy to blame the collector. Did people say they wanted this? Yeah but people say they want many things until the price comes into play. I don’t think many found the value in this set for $400 and the figure choices were poor. Starting with Rey at 5K & then Hogan as the early backer bonus was not the way to go.
I also personally feel a little wronged as a collector because for the New Generation one (which I did want) we were told back that to get what a lot of really wanted (Raw Is War) and then this crowd fund was Nitro instead. I also lost interest when it was confirmed Raw Is War would cost more. I’m sorry but I can’t justify the cost of a PS5 for an LED stage that I also don’t even have room for and that’s assuming the RAW stage is $500. It could be $600 or maybe $700.
I think people want these things but I don’t think they want them for the price offered. If the cost can’t be brought down for RAW or Nitro I don’t see much of a demand for either one. The figure choices are also really important and the choices for this crowd fund were just underwhelming.
Furthermore I don’t want to keep buying rings and would have preferred an expansion back to turn Raw into Nitro. I can’t store 3 Mattel rings (plus two Jazwares rings) and two huge stages. I just don’t have the room.
I also think it isn’t doing well because most WCW fans stopped watching wrestling over 20 years ago.
If another crowd fund ever happens, it would be helpful to get the presumed price along with the expected figures to see if people truly want the item or have an interest in the entire product at that price point.
The New Generation arena succeeded because you really can’t argue that a ring, light up stage, 3 Ultimate Editions, an announce table, ring skirts, and an extra backdrop diorama wasn’t worth $250. It absolutely was and the tiers were fair enough to unlock and with figures people had an interest in.
Just my take on the entire thing.
EDIT: I also want to note that while no one from Mattel directly said Raw Is War was next on many podcasts pretty much everyone (Mattel included) would nod their head to back the New Generation Arena to get other items we want (Raw Is War being the most popular). So getting a Raw is War ring then a Nitro stage it was a disconnect.
|
|
#Heel
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Jan 7, 2012 4:53:15 GMT -5
Posts: 211
|
Post by #Heel on Apr 7, 2023 15:08:09 GMT -5
1818 backers as of 3:09 pm EST. It’s a done deal. No way this gets backed. This has to be pretty embarrassing that the number of backers are abysmal. It has until May 6 to get backed. All this means at the moment is we probably don’t get Hogan. I don’t see enough people having an interest in the stage without all of the figures being included.
|
|
#Heel
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Jan 7, 2012 4:53:15 GMT -5
Posts: 211
|
Post by #Heel on Apr 7, 2023 14:10:52 GMT -5
1818 backers as of 3:09 pm EST. It’s a done deal. No way this gets backed. This has to be pretty embarrassing that the number of backers are abysmal.
|
|
#Heel
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Jan 7, 2012 4:53:15 GMT -5
Posts: 211
|
Post by #Heel on Apr 6, 2023 10:23:52 GMT -5
Yup the paint quality has been really bad recently. It seems like they are getting cheap and only doing one application of paint so it wears easily. I don’t even play with my figures so no excuse for this.
|
|
#Heel
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Jan 7, 2012 4:53:15 GMT -5
Posts: 211
|
Post by #Heel on Mar 25, 2023 22:02:53 GMT -5
Is it me or has this toyline become catered to wealthy YouTubers who review the product? Which YouTubers that review wrestling figures are “wealthy”? Comfortable to buy the figures they want? Sure. Wealthy…not so much. YouTube isn’t a get rich quick but it might pay better than some jobs for some people and others not so much.
|
|
#Heel
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Jan 7, 2012 4:53:15 GMT -5
Posts: 211
|
Post by #Heel on Sept 15, 2022 21:05:48 GMT -5
so whats up with the ultimate edition nwo macho man showing up at bargain outlets? i'm sure its more of a target issue than a mattel issue, but i can't imsgine mattel can be too happy about that exclusive being shipped off to bargain stores before it even got a wide release at the stores it was made for Don’t know why the figure is at that store but it’ll be on Target planogram after the upcoming reset. I’m assuming this means he will likely release around the same time as the next Legends set. Does that mean the Ultimate Bret won’t release until 2023 or will it be sooner than that?
|
|
#Heel
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Jan 7, 2012 4:53:15 GMT -5
Posts: 211
|
Post by #Heel on Aug 23, 2022 13:15:37 GMT -5
This macho man UE is a bitch, I haven’t seen or heard anyone finding him around the area yet im sure he’ll be around more within the month of September Yeah he will be plentiful just like Batista.
|
|
#Heel
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Jan 7, 2012 4:53:15 GMT -5
Posts: 211
|
Post by #Heel on Apr 20, 2022 22:43:33 GMT -5
What I don’t get is how the same people always seem to get these figures when others who also ordered as soon as they went up don’t. I wonder if it’s the people who order two or more? It’s just weird it’s always the same “influencers” that get them. Unless they are somehow getting them before they officially go live because they simply spend more time online. Do you have a amazon prime card? I do which is what I used for this purchase. How come?
|
|
#Heel
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Jan 7, 2012 4:53:15 GMT -5
Posts: 211
|
Post by #Heel on Apr 20, 2022 21:59:47 GMT -5
What I don’t get is how the same people always seem to get these figures when others who also ordered as soon as they went up don’t. I wonder if it’s the people who order two or more? It’s just weird it’s always the same “influencers” that get them. Unless they are somehow getting them before they officially go live because they simply spend more time online.
|
|
#Heel
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Jan 7, 2012 4:53:15 GMT -5
Posts: 211
|
Post by #Heel on Mar 28, 2022 10:21:03 GMT -5
Everyone needs to relax these will be very easy to obtain. Go get laid or something and you will get your Batista toy in the next few weeks. Stalking the online page is ridiculous and makes collectors look like they don’t have anything better to do.
|
|
#Heel
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Jan 7, 2012 4:53:15 GMT -5
Posts: 211
|
Post by #Heel on Mar 14, 2022 13:18:49 GMT -5
If that’s what he meant then it was bad articulation. No it wasn’t they didn’t have these figures released until way after the last inauguration and the next one isn’t until 2025 They were in production way before the last inauguration though. The second set is still sitting on big bad and entertainment earth. Not looking good for the line. Whether that has to do with inflation, consumers being unhappy with the line, or another reason the fact is the second set didn’t sell as well as the first one. Super 7 not answering fan questions is not a good sign either. If you think the price of gas won’t change how consumers collect you are lying to yourself.
|
|