Revvie®
Main Eventer
Somewhere between Reality, and the Absurd
Joined on: Jun 29, 2005 1:04:26 GMT -5
Posts: 4,327
|
Post by Revvie® on Jul 6, 2011 17:46:11 GMT -5
Gotta' keep pushing that fear to make people comfortable with getting their rights BLATANTLY violated... Exactly, completely ridiculous. Most of this just feels like our government giving more excuses to invade our privacy laws...if we even have any left.....
|
|
Revvie®
Main Eventer
Somewhere between Reality, and the Absurd
Joined on: Jun 29, 2005 1:04:26 GMT -5
Posts: 4,327
|
Post by Revvie® on Jul 6, 2011 12:53:47 GMT -5
pshh your a ghost
|
|
Revvie®
Main Eventer
Somewhere between Reality, and the Absurd
Joined on: Jun 29, 2005 1:04:26 GMT -5
Posts: 4,327
|
Post by Revvie® on Jul 6, 2011 12:49:54 GMT -5
no, that was pretty much banter as well. the difference was he had not directed his statement at anyone person or quoted another in hopes of a direction towards his statement. For instance, if I shout that I believe we live in the matrix...its my opinion and i might be a fool for it. But if I shout it at you...I have just directed it towards another, thus engaging you in a debate if you disagree. edit: honestly i thought this discussion was about a sign....lol its not anymore...so everything therefore is banter im not taking a side...I really could care less...im not offended by your statements nor his. LoL, GOD FORBID WE DEBATE ON A FORUM!!!!!!! Why is it when this sort of debate gets locked, the day after someone, essentially, tries to turn it back on. I do not care that people debate and have taken myself into a many and even involved in yesterdays which was peaceful and still got locked The problem is not with the debate about existence and non-existence of a divine being...the problem is that neither side can convince the other and one ends up offending the other...as you stated you were offended and retaliated as you saw fit.
|
|
Revvie®
Main Eventer
Somewhere between Reality, and the Absurd
Joined on: Jun 29, 2005 1:04:26 GMT -5
Posts: 4,327
|
Post by Revvie® on Jul 6, 2011 12:44:10 GMT -5
See.....banter, exactly what I said was coming. LMFAO. Okay, so let me get this straight... On the last page, when someone insulted atheists, you defended it by saying, "It's his opinion." But when I do the EXACT SAME THING about people who are religious, you're suddenly throwing stones at me? no, that was pretty much banter as well. the difference was he had not directed his statement at anyone person or quoted another in hopes of a direction towards his statement. For instance, if I shout that I believe we live in the matrix...its my opinion and i might be a fool for it. But if I shout it at you...I have just directed it towards another, thus engaging you in a debate if you disagree. edit: honestly i thought this discussion was about a sign....lol its not anymore...so everything therefore is banter im not taking a side...I really could care less...im not offended by your statements nor his.
|
|
Revvie®
Main Eventer
Somewhere between Reality, and the Absurd
Joined on: Jun 29, 2005 1:04:26 GMT -5
Posts: 4,327
|
Post by Revvie® on Jul 6, 2011 12:35:54 GMT -5
The bottom line is that everyone who is religious, became so for a reason. This day in age, people do not come to this conclusion on their own. At some point in your life, you were either... • Instilled with the information that your parents' religion is "right." • Were exposed to your religion by someone outside of your parents. Could be a friend, another relative, a teacher or even someone on television. • Went through a particularly hard time in your life and were able to focus your energy on your religion, which in turn may have helped you get through that time in your life. Like I said, I have no problem with people being religious. I will literally fight for YOUR right to have religious freedom and I truly hope that you are right. ... But this belief that somehow, faith in a "God" is more intelligent than faith in any random fictional deity is just absurd. Someone's belief in "God" is literally the exact same thing as my belief in a flying spaghetti monster. See.....banter, exactly what I said was coming.
|
|
Revvie®
Main Eventer
Somewhere between Reality, and the Absurd
Joined on: Jun 29, 2005 1:04:26 GMT -5
Posts: 4,327
|
Post by Revvie® on Jul 6, 2011 12:32:39 GMT -5
....here we go again Why post that? Seriously? Isn't this forum for discussion? And it's not at all hostile/rude/immature. The problem is with this discussion is it never ends well. and it just happened yesterday and was locked by Jack himself. And yesterday was a conscious and non-rude discussion. Its the nature of the discussion when it arises. Due to the fact their can be no winner it becomes irrelevant and eventually deteriorates into banter.
|
|
Revvie®
Main Eventer
Somewhere between Reality, and the Absurd
Joined on: Jun 29, 2005 1:04:26 GMT -5
Posts: 4,327
|
Post by Revvie® on Jul 6, 2011 12:29:29 GMT -5
Greatest invention to me was the e-readers, Im not sure when exactly they arrived but the advancements have caused a burst in usage regardless. Honestly I loathe them, BUT people reading has increased due to them and because of that I am definitely happy they exist. Better to have people reading more and me not like the device then people continuing down the slope that they had been. again, thats just my opinion, everyone is different. Just curious why the loathing for e-readers. Honestly, I think its because of the purist and pretentious person that dwells somewhere in me, if not that then I am unsure otherwise. I just find the BOOK and gazing through them so invigorating. Its calming. I love the smell of a new book and an old book. there is just something so unique as each one has moved from one mind to another. Something just is lost when its on a screen and im skimming books through a screen. its me more so then anything, the device is useful, compact, easier then carrying a book. The books are cheaper and you can carry numerous with you. it has all the advantages of new technology ;D
|
|
Revvie®
Main Eventer
Somewhere between Reality, and the Absurd
Joined on: Jun 29, 2005 1:04:26 GMT -5
Posts: 4,327
|
Post by Revvie® on Jul 6, 2011 12:24:50 GMT -5
There's no scientific proof that God doesn't exist either. The fact is there is no proof or evidence on either side and anyone who says there is is delusional. It really comes down to a question of faith and whether you have it or not at the end of the day. Do you believe in a flying spaghetti monster? No? Same concept. By all means, believe what you want, but don't act like belief and non-belief are the same thing. ....here we go again
|
|
Revvie®
Main Eventer
Somewhere between Reality, and the Absurd
Joined on: Jun 29, 2005 1:04:26 GMT -5
Posts: 4,327
|
Post by Revvie® on Jul 6, 2011 12:09:49 GMT -5
Greatest invention to me was the e-readers, Im not sure when exactly they arrived but the advancements have caused a burst in usage regardless.
Honestly I loathe them, BUT people reading has increased due to them and because of that I am definitely happy they exist. Better to have people reading more and me not like the device then people continuing down the slope that they had been.
again, thats just my opinion, everyone is different.
|
|
Revvie®
Main Eventer
Somewhere between Reality, and the Absurd
Joined on: Jun 29, 2005 1:04:26 GMT -5
Posts: 4,327
|
Post by Revvie® on Jul 6, 2011 12:06:12 GMT -5
He did state it was in his opinion, hes allowed the right to his position as long as he didnt state it as fact..... ....doesnt make me laugh any less at the assessment, but still I'm not even an atheist but I am still offended by that ;D ironically enough, the post was about people being offended and amazing enough Wfers have done so themselves I admit it when I say I love this place.
|
|
Revvie®
Main Eventer
Somewhere between Reality, and the Absurd
Joined on: Jun 29, 2005 1:04:26 GMT -5
Posts: 4,327
|
Post by Revvie® on Jul 6, 2011 11:48:51 GMT -5
IMHO atheists are people who either: • Have had a a bad falling out with members of there old church • Have taken to being atheists just to fit in with someone they like • Are just haters who think its cool to hate on god And usually I dont pay attention to what some hippy atheist says, they'll prob grow out of that fad anyway. Who made you the authority of every atheist? Surely you have like 6 people in mind when you made your bullet points, but that doesn't include everyone, thank you so much. He did state it was in his opinion, hes allowed the right to his position as long as he didnt state it as fact..... ....doesnt make me laugh any less at the assessment, but still
|
|
Revvie®
Main Eventer
Somewhere between Reality, and the Absurd
Joined on: Jun 29, 2005 1:04:26 GMT -5
Posts: 4,327
|
Post by Revvie® on Jul 6, 2011 7:05:02 GMT -5
Well the sign was made to honor 7 firemen that died during the 911 attacks so it hasn't been there that long. But I mean, it's such a nice way to honor these men and it certainly sounds a hell of a lot better than Seven Rotting in the Ground Way. See this is where I have to disagree, atheist may decree no God but each one has a different set of principles and beliefs. And im sure their idea was not to put it in such a negative light. I think you maybe overstepping a bit yourself here with your statements. Given the fact that the law does state a separation of church and state, the only thing that will hold that sign there is if the duration by which it had been there gives it the heads up...otherwise if this is taken into courts, it will probably be removed.
|
|
Revvie®
Main Eventer
Somewhere between Reality, and the Absurd
Joined on: Jun 29, 2005 1:04:26 GMT -5
Posts: 4,327
|
Post by Revvie® on Jul 6, 2011 6:56:00 GMT -5
My question on anything that people find offensive is how long has it been there and what brought it to their attention. After that we have to assess are they picking singularly on that specifically or are they planning on taking it the full mile. To be offended by a sign seems foolish but if they are sincerely offended then they need to push for any sign in any area of any state city town to be removed or changed. You cannot pick apart one thing and leave the rest unnoticed in my eyes...
everyone has a right to what they view is ok and everyone has a right to the freedom to say it. I may say leave it, but then again I dont find offense to atheist signs that tell me that i am believing in fairy tales...and i have seen a few in my area...I just go on. maybe im too laid back on things involving freedom.
And for the record I do understand the laws of church and state.
|
|
Revvie®
Main Eventer
Somewhere between Reality, and the Absurd
Joined on: Jun 29, 2005 1:04:26 GMT -5
Posts: 4,327
|
Post by Revvie® on Jul 5, 2011 20:55:32 GMT -5
Im out haha....I know no relevant information will disprove or prove existence. If it does, then I said I will conceded my beliefs. But I know no such information exists as of yet, until it does, I cannot be swayed by words and banter as neither side of this ever wins.
I still enjoy the small debates regardless, and for that I will always thank the opposing opinions...conversation and debate can lead a person to serious knowledge and wisdom..I am always greatful for thi.
|
|
Revvie®
Main Eventer
Somewhere between Reality, and the Absurd
Joined on: Jun 29, 2005 1:04:26 GMT -5
Posts: 4,327
|
Post by Revvie® on Jul 5, 2011 20:42:58 GMT -5
Yet another debate cop-out...really? So because he doesnt appear for you, this makes him non-existent? Then explain to me the nature of the universe and unless you can...i will claim it does not truly exist...at all. ;D edit:For the record, this is a favorite approach of Dawkins...and it is not what will win a debate. Actually as I tried to state, neither side can bare the burden because neither side has definitive proof. HE DOESN'T APPEAR ANYWHERE! Anything in our known physical world has a trace back to it's origin...Why doesnt a god? Sure we can use religion, the structure of the universe as traces to but why does he/she/it remain hidden and amibiguous. Either all religion is true( virtually nullifying the existence of any notion of God and verifying that it was man made), or all religion is false..meaning the evidence is unfounded and made up. Absolute truth should be clearly defined. Otherwise, by defintion, it;s false. Show me the scientist who said they have traced everything physical back to its root? You provide me with this, I will concede right now. The rest of your logic is failed as it makes not TRUE statements except to attempt to pull a double negative in wording. No serious debate can be made from that, which is why I dont ever see it used.
|
|
Revvie®
Main Eventer
Somewhere between Reality, and the Absurd
Joined on: Jun 29, 2005 1:04:26 GMT -5
Posts: 4,327
|
Post by Revvie® on Jul 5, 2011 20:37:47 GMT -5
I think the disproving of a omnibenevolent/omnipotent/omnipresent god was provided by deskjet earlier with his Epicurus quotation. I'd also add that, as Revvie said, you cannot claim a universal truth for either side of the argument since there isn't one. however, as a human being who uses logic, fact and experience as far as my tools of judgement - as an agnostic/atheist I have come to the conclusion that there is much more support in favour of no organised religion being true. As I stated earlier, I feel it is simply a question of upbringing and socialization. I am willing to bet that ~90% of Christians were raised that way.And you would be on the money as such, but WE as human beings take the best of our wisdom and knowledge and pass it on to our kids. This takes place regardless of religion or lack there of. I know friend of mine that their family has been atheist since back a few generations and they raise their kids as such. This rules out little to me. As far as you taking it all to the best your understanding and coming to the conclusion that you have, well I say that is what you should have done, as everyone should. The bible does not say to foolishly believe in God or Jesus or any other holy text. It states free will and the freedom to choose. I never will deny an atheist his free will...the only time I take a stand is when Opinions and Idealism are listed as factual information... and since I dont think you have done this...your good with me haha ;D EDIT: For the record, I ignored the beginning statement since a mere quote does not sway in a debate. And you stated afterward that prove could not be shown on either side.
|
|
Revvie®
Main Eventer
Somewhere between Reality, and the Absurd
Joined on: Jun 29, 2005 1:04:26 GMT -5
Posts: 4,327
|
Post by Revvie® on Jul 5, 2011 20:27:49 GMT -5
Then prove A god doesnt exist to me. Ask a muslim, buddhist, christian, hindu to pray for something and see which one gets answered or ask your god to make him self physically present to you and see if he does. A stretch you say? Then why call him god. Yet another debate cop-out...really? So because he doesnt appear for you, this makes him non-existent? Then explain to me the nature of the universe and unless you can...i will claim it does not truly exist...at all. ;D edit:For the record, this is a favorite approach of Dawkins...and it is not what will win a debate. Actually as I tried to state, neither side can bare the burden because neither side has definitive proof.
|
|
Revvie®
Main Eventer
Somewhere between Reality, and the Absurd
Joined on: Jun 29, 2005 1:04:26 GMT -5
Posts: 4,327
|
Post by Revvie® on Jul 5, 2011 20:26:21 GMT -5
Prove to me he does not exist without stating one of these 1. You cannot see him 2. You cannot feel him phyiscally And now I just broke my statement saying I wasn't going to argue. The burden of proof does not lie with him. You are the one making the claim. I love this Atheist cop-out response. Proof is reliant on both sides, not just one. Unless you can unravel said universe and explain it to me in full detail then you have failed to meet your burden of proof. On the same right, I cannot meet mine either... which is why I stated it was based on a person opinion of life and not a definitive truth for either side...which is why this debate will never end: ever. Those who know the truth tale no tales.
|
|
Revvie®
Main Eventer
Somewhere between Reality, and the Absurd
Joined on: Jun 29, 2005 1:04:26 GMT -5
Posts: 4,327
|
Post by Revvie® on Jul 5, 2011 20:19:06 GMT -5
Negative I do not. I am going to end this with my final thoughts. You cannot prove God does not exist. You can have your opinions and I will have mine. No matter the amount of proof that he does exist, some people will not believe. It is a waste of time to argue on here about this, so peace. Actually I can prove he doesn't exist...I doubt you can prove he does to anyone but yourself or your cirlce. And that's not meant to be disrespectful of your or your belief. If it works for you..go with it. I just don't think it's real. Like I said in the beginning. You can believe in anything..to inspire hope, assurance, love, etc...but it doesn't make it true You can't prove he does. Then prove A god doesnt exist to me.
|
|
Revvie®
Main Eventer
Somewhere between Reality, and the Absurd
Joined on: Jun 29, 2005 1:04:26 GMT -5
Posts: 4,327
|
Post by Revvie® on Jul 5, 2011 20:09:35 GMT -5
I debated on whether or not to post....BUT its hard for me not to since its the single biggest interest that I own up to. Religion, philosophy(mostly existential), and human culture along with science to tie all my thoughts into nice neat knots. That being said, there is not TRUE answer and I will not be one to state that MY TRUTH, is TRUTH like I have already seen stated. With that being said, I do believe in God and in Jesus. WHY? because historically they can prove the existence of Jesus or Yeshua if you want to call him. The fact that he made such an impact and definitive historical evidence to prove his existence does not define how I feel about what we have done with his teaching as christians...which for the most, we have tossed most of what he has said out into the streets and attached onto the old testament...regardless To fathom existence is something I do regularly...its all I do most of the time. I have studied most all religions to some extent and the renowned ones I have study thoroughly...Ive studied the science behind things and quantum physics and so on and so forth and no matter where I seem to find myself or my answers, they lead ME back to GOD or a GOD for those who want to question the definitive existence(or more so the plausibility of). To say this whole universe(and quite possibly others) came to be out of a freak accident is ludicrous in my mind. Then we try to wrap our heads around the idea of a GOD and since we cant understand, most just assumed that its not plausible. I know that atheist will say, (I dont have to prove a negative). This also leaves me blank..if its a negative then what is the positive. If you dont have proof to back either claim then where does that leave us. that leaves us at no true answer, just the best answer that you can come to yourself. And please dont throw out hitchens name...he is an insult to most true atheists. An opinion is all I have to offer and it is my own. "If I am capable of grasping God objectively, I do not believe, but precisely because I cannot do this I must believe." Soren Kierkegaard
|
|