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Jul 1, 2010 9:27:22 GMT -5
Post by MichaelTheMartian on Jul 1, 2010 9:27:22 GMT -5
I was reading a Randy Orton interview from a couple of years ago he did here in Australia to promote there tour. And he said I want the younger guys who will be stars in the WWE in a few years like Mr. Kennedy, Bobby Lashley, Kendrick, Shelton Benjamin & Paul London to look up to me or something like that. And all of them are gone from the WWE. It's amazing that three years ago we thought guys like MVP, Mr. Kennedy, Elijah Burke, Benjamin, Lashley would all be big superstars. And now MVP is jobbing and the rest are gone. Was it like this in the 90's were a whole big bunch of "future stars" were gone from the company after a year or two?
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Wow
Jul 1, 2010 9:33:06 GMT -5
Post by †hê Jå§ðñ Wïllïåm§ on Jul 1, 2010 9:33:06 GMT -5
Well Kennedy was not his fault for being fired, he was lied about. Bobby Lashley wanted MMA I beleive. Elijah Burke had nothing to do. Benjamin had no Charisma Kendrick had drug issues. London had smiling issues MVP has peeing infront of peolpe issues.
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Wow
Jul 1, 2010 9:39:34 GMT -5
Post by No Brokeback on Jul 1, 2010 9:39:34 GMT -5
In the late 90's, even the smaller superstars were well established into odd, yet interesting. The seemed to have a decent grasp on whatever was going to happen, with who, and if they were going to be the show, they were going to be used to the best of their ability. -what made stars get over so well in the later 90's were stables. They'd take 'unknowns' put them in somewhere, have them fit in, build storylines around it, and they'd become really popular. For example, look at this, and tell me how many stars were in there, that are still in the WWE..because most of them weren't ANYTHING before this storyline
In the mid 90's. It was just odd. there were more ridiculous gimmicks than anything. You'd see the same stars every week, fighting in some okay feuds. Then maybe someone like Yoko, would take on a jobber or an 80's wrestler who hadn't really left the company (then end up in WCW doing nothing there either).
Early 90's. I don't really remember well. I think things were fixated on Hogan still, stars were at their peak here. The Warrior, Hogan, Rockers. The Nasties would debut (I hated their damn music) The Undertakers, Crush's and various others would come in, but they'd be used alright. I'm sure there were talented jobbers there...
But now. WWE doesn't know how to build stars. They 'shoot their load' right away which only lasts a few months and it doesn't really go anywhere. Building a new stars doesn't mean that 'star' has to be an undefeated monster. (Try to name a new character than wasn't a powerful undefeated wrestlers for awhile in the main event or going for a title?) It's all in the writing, which is suffering more than ever, (I thought it started going downhill in 05 honestly). They need to get a grasp on writing characters and keeping them interesting.
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Wow
Jul 1, 2010 9:53:47 GMT -5
Post by blecaaldwin on Jul 1, 2010 9:53:47 GMT -5
But now. WWE doesn't know how to build stars. John Cena Sheamus CM Punk Jack Swagger They are still in the process of building: Ted Dibiase Cody Rhodes Kofi Kingston Dolph Ziggler John Morrison The Miz Wade Barrett Only one of those 11 guys were powerhouse, undefeated guys when they debuted, and that's Sheamus, who honestly...fits the bill.
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Wow
Jul 1, 2010 10:10:18 GMT -5
Post by No Brokeback on Jul 1, 2010 10:10:18 GMT -5
But now. WWE doesn't know how to build stars. John Cena Sheamus CM Punk Jack Swagger They are still in the process of building: Ted Dibiase Cody Rhodes Kofi Kingston Dolph Ziggler John Morrison The Miz Wade Barrett Only one of those 11 guys were powerhouse, undefeated guys when they debuted, and that's Sheamus, who honestly...fits the bill. Umaga The Masterlock guy Great Khali Lashley Shaemus Ted Dibiase Cody Rhodes - They've been trying build these guys for awhile now, and they haven't really gained anything from it. You'd think teaming with Randy Orton for a year would have done something, but they're boring and plain to watch. Dolph Ziggler John Morrison These characters are pretty much the same as Cody and Ted. They've been around for awhile now, and they don't have anything special about them. I would have thought Morrison would have became something once he broke away from his tag team, but it's been 3 years now? CM Punk is the only guy that can carry himself really well, I suppose the Miz can as well. Those 2 have a great run going in the WWE.
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Wow
Jul 1, 2010 10:17:37 GMT -5
Post by blecaaldwin on Jul 1, 2010 10:17:37 GMT -5
John Cena Sheamus CM Punk Jack Swagger They are still in the process of building: Ted Dibiase Cody Rhodes Kofi Kingston Dolph Ziggler John Morrison The Miz Wade Barrett Only one of those 11 guys were powerhouse, undefeated guys when they debuted, and that's Sheamus, who honestly...fits the bill. Umaga The Masterlock guy Great Khali Lashley Shaemus Ted Dibiase Cody Rhodes - They've been trying build these guys for awhile now, and they haven't really gained anything from it. You'd think teaming with Randy Orton for a year would have done something, but they're boring and plain to watch. Dolph Ziggler John Morrison These characters are pretty much the same as Cody and Ted. They've been around for awhile now, and they don't have anything special about them. I would have thought Morrison would have became something once he broke away from his tag team, but it's been 3 years now? CM Punk is the only guy that can carry himself really well, I suppose the Miz can as well. Those 2 have a great run going in the WWE. I don't understand the problem then... You say you don't want them to just create undefeated, powerhouse guys that run straight to the title, but then when they slowly build stars, you say it's taking them too long. You don't have to win the WWE title in your first two years to be considered as a star. Ted DiBiase and Cody Rhodes are both stars in their own right, and they are both very young and on their way to being huge names. Same goes for Ziggler and Morrison, but to a slightly lesser extent. WWE is entitled a few screw ups. The NFL wanted Ryan Leaf to be a star, but that didn't work out. Same with Kwame Brown in the NBA. And success in those organizations aren't build on fan reaction. It's tough to build stars in wrestling. Personally, I feel like WWE isn't doing all that bad.
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Wow
Jul 1, 2010 10:20:24 GMT -5
Post by No Brokeback on Jul 1, 2010 10:20:24 GMT -5
There's a difference between taking too long and being a poorly written character. A character is only important if they can make you care about that character. When you watch John Morrison on TV, do you care if he wins or loses? Dolph Ziggler, Cody Rhodes or Ted? They get a lot of TV time, but they're not doing anything interesting.
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Wow
Jul 1, 2010 10:24:18 GMT -5
Post by Lord Ragnarok on Jul 1, 2010 10:24:18 GMT -5
Well, thank God Bobby Lashley still isn't around. It's unfortunate about the others, but Bobby Lashley was just terrible.
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Wow
Jul 1, 2010 10:26:48 GMT -5
Post by blecaaldwin on Jul 1, 2010 10:26:48 GMT -5
There's a difference between taking too long and being a poorly written character. A character is only important if they can make you care about that character. When you watch John Morrison on TV, do you care if he wins or loses? Dolph Ziggler, Cody Rhodes or Ted? They get a lot of TV time, but they're not doing anything interesting. If the match means something, I definitely care if any of those guys win or lose. If it's something on Superstars, I couldn't care less who wins any match. It's really more about match importance than stars. If the match outcome really means something, then fans are going to pick a side. If it doesn't, then they don't care as much. So to me, the poor writing is in the match importance and not the characters (though characters could certainly use some improvement.)
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Wow
Jul 1, 2010 10:32:24 GMT -5
Post by No Brokeback on Jul 1, 2010 10:32:24 GMT -5
There's a difference between taking too long and being a poorly written character. A character is only important if they can make you care about that character. When you watch John Morrison on TV, do you care if he wins or loses? Dolph Ziggler, Cody Rhodes or Ted? They get a lot of TV time, but they're not doing anything interesting. If the match means something, I definitely care if any of those guys win or lose. If it's something on Superstars, I couldn't care less who wins any match. It's really more about match importance than stars. If the match outcome really means something, then fans are going to pick a side. If it doesn't, then they don't care as much. So to me, the poor writing is in the match importance and not the characters (though characters could certainly use some improvement.) Well, the characters themselves are supposed to make the story they're in 'come alive'. They don't really have the mic skills and either way it just feels to scripted to get behind. (That's a lot of WWE's problems right now) It's just far to scripted. And I hate to throw NXT around in a topic like this, but even that felt really..REALLY scripted..when they were all done doing the damage they were doing. They all decided at once "Let's look into the TV camera and put angry faces on". That was painful
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Wow
Jul 1, 2010 10:37:02 GMT -5
Post by blecaaldwin on Jul 1, 2010 10:37:02 GMT -5
If the match means something, I definitely care if any of those guys win or lose. If it's something on Superstars, I couldn't care less who wins any match. It's really more about match importance than stars. If the match outcome really means something, then fans are going to pick a side. If it doesn't, then they don't care as much. So to me, the poor writing is in the match importance and not the characters (though characters could certainly use some improvement.) Well, the characters themselves are supposed to make the story they're in 'come alive'. They don't really have the mic skills and either way it just feels to scripted to get behind. (That's a lot of WWE's problems right now) It's just far to scripted. And I hate to throw NXT around in a topic like this, but even that felt really..REALLY scripted..when they were all done doing the damage they were doing. They all decided at once "Let's look into the TV camera and put angry faces on". That was painful First you were blaming the writing and WWE for not being able to build the stars. Then the stars themselves for not having the mic skills to make the stories compelling... This argument is simply becoming "do you enjoy the program or not?" And I am not going to have that argument. I like it. You don't. That's fine. The WWE has its problems. TNA has their problems. ROH has theirs.
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Wow
Jul 1, 2010 10:45:44 GMT -5
Post by No Brokeback on Jul 1, 2010 10:45:44 GMT -5
Well, the characters themselves are supposed to make the story they're in 'come alive'. They don't really have the mic skills and either way it just feels to scripted to get behind. (That's a lot of WWE's problems right now) It's just far to scripted. And I hate to throw NXT around in a topic like this, but even that felt really..REALLY scripted..when they were all done doing the damage they were doing. They all decided at once "Let's look into the TV camera and put angry faces on". That was painful First you were blaming the writing and WWE for not being able to build the stars. Then the stars themselves for not having the mic skills to make the stories compelling... This argument is simply becoming "do you enjoy the program or not?" And I am not going to have that argument. I like it. You don't. That's fine. The WWE has its problems. TNA has their problems. ROH has theirs. I like watching WWE, I just don't like those few characters. What I meant was, I suppose. It takes both the writers, and wrestlers to make the stories watchable. Although the wrestlers that are named are the most bland looking people you could find. It's no wonder why Goldust painted himself gold and acted gay, and their Dusty wore polka dots. It made them stand out. Not from just other wrestlers, but from each other. I actually don't mind John Cena, but if you say that around here, you have to put with massive amounts of arguing. CM Punk is amazing, I like that whole group. But if I didn't like watching the program, I wouldn't be posting here.
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Vintage ToneBoat
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jul 27, 2008 14:17:16 GMT -5
Posts: 2,097
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Wow
Jul 1, 2010 10:53:30 GMT -5
Post by Vintage ToneBoat on Jul 1, 2010 10:53:30 GMT -5
wwe hasnt totally dropped the ball..now these guys can go work more independently and make more money per showing. There will always be bookings for ex wwe gys just for that fact. Its just a shame (lobster head) that they wont reach the outter limits of the "wwe universe".
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Wow
Jul 1, 2010 11:26:00 GMT -5
Post by carly1988 on Jul 1, 2010 11:26:00 GMT -5
I was reading a Randy Orton interview from a couple of years ago he did here in Australia to promote there tour. And he said I want the younger guys who will be stars in the WWE in a few years like Mr. Kennedy, Bobby Lashley, Kendrick, Shelton Benjamin & Paul London to look up to me or something like that. And all of them are gone from the WWE. It's amazing that three years ago we thought guys like MVP, Mr. Kennedy, Elijah Burke, Benjamin, Lashley would all be big superstars. And now MVP is jobbing and the rest are gone. Was it like this in the 90's were a whole big bunch of "future stars" were gone from the company after a year or two? Who's we?? The only one of that group I ever thought would be a star was Benjamin and even then I had my doubts because he had the personality of a broom handle
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Jul 1, 2010 11:33:15 GMT -5
Post by RSCTom on Jul 1, 2010 11:33:15 GMT -5
Their problem is that they're pushing the younger stars too heavily and the regular or older stars who aren't DX/Cena/Undertaker suffer from it. They have no way of balancing it out, and when they do it's usually because that older star kind of transcends the problem (Jericho, Christian, etc.)
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Deleted
Joined on: Jun 11, 2024 2:29:11 GMT -5
Posts: 0
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Wow
Jul 1, 2010 12:43:39 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2010 12:43:39 GMT -5
Oppiste Jelly you saying Vince doesn't know how to build new stars is like saying Michaelangelo doesn't know how to paint.
No matter what Vince has a method to his madness, and if anyone in the wrestling business knows how to build new stars it's Vince. He did it in the 80's he did it in the 90's when WCW was to busy using guys from the 80's or stars Vince already built and he's doing it now while TNA is using guys from the 90's most of which were made by Vince.
Look at guys like Edge and Jeff Hardy it took them a while to really become Stars.
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Infinite
Main Eventer
Joined on: Aug 27, 2009 13:49:36 GMT -5
Posts: 2,608
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Wow
Jul 1, 2010 14:17:18 GMT -5
Post by Infinite on Jul 1, 2010 14:17:18 GMT -5
But now. WWE doesn't know how to build stars. John Cena Sheamus CM Punk Jack Swagger They are still in the process of building: Ted Dibiase Cody Rhodes Kofi Kingston Dolph Ziggler John Morrison The Miz Wade Barrett Only one of those 11 guys were powerhouse, undefeated guys when they debuted, and that's Sheamus, who honestly...fits the bill. the wwe hasnt exactly done a great job building any of these, lets be honest, all they did was give them a world title really quickly, then absolutely crap on them for their entire 1 month crappy reign. with the exception of swagger, none of these guys came out of their first reign looking better than they did before, and swagger only did because before he got the title he was jobbing to santino.
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Wow
Jul 1, 2010 14:24:17 GMT -5
Post by No Brokeback on Jul 1, 2010 14:24:17 GMT -5
Oppiste Jelly you saying Vince doesn't know how to build new stars is like saying Michaelangelo doesn't know how to paint. No matter what Vince has a method to his madness, and if anyone in the wrestling business knows how to build new stars it's Vince. He did it in the 80's he did it in the 90's when WCW was to busy using guys from the 80's or stars Vince already built and he's doing it now while TNA is using guys from the 90's most of which were made by Vince. Look at guys like Edge and Jeff Hardy it took them a while to really become Stars. The Hardy's..when they were the Hardy's, and not random jobbers they threw into the show, when they were actually established on TV. They were all pretty damn popular. This is when they came out with Michael Hayes, they were quick wrestlers and did some pretty crazy things early on. I know it took a few months for them to build that ladder match up, which cemented their place in the WWE, but they were getting noticed quickly. Vince could create great stars, I'm not denying that, but there hasn't been anyone made in the last few years that really has stood out. There haven't been any Austin's, Rocks, Mankinds, Hogans, Macho Mans. It's been a dead few years of anyone fresh in the WWE.
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Infinite
Main Eventer
Joined on: Aug 27, 2009 13:49:36 GMT -5
Posts: 2,608
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Wow
Jul 1, 2010 15:56:55 GMT -5
Post by Infinite on Jul 1, 2010 15:56:55 GMT -5
Oppiste Jelly you saying Vince doesn't know how to build new stars is like saying Michaelangelo doesn't know how to paint. No matter what Vince has a method to his madness, and if anyone in the wrestling business knows how to build new stars it's Vince. He did it in the 80's he did it in the 90's when WCW was to busy using guys from the 80's or stars Vince already built and he's doing it now while TNA is using guys from the 90's most of which were made by Vince. Look at guys like Edge and Jeff Hardy it took them a while to really become Stars. The Hardy's..when they were the Hardy's, and not random jobbers they threw into the show, when they were actually established on TV. They were all pretty damn popular. This is when they came out with Michael Hayes, they were quick wrestlers and did some pretty crazy things early on. I know it took a few months for them to build that ladder match up, which cemented their place in the WWE, but they were getting noticed quickly. Vince could create great stars, I'm not denying that, but there hasn't been anyone made in the last few years that really has stood out. There haven't been any Austin's, Rocks, Mankinds, Hogans, Macho Mans. It's been a dead few years of anyone fresh in the WWE. Batista? Cena? Orton? they're all pretty big stars, like it or not.
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