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Post by J12 on Jun 15, 2011 15:59:34 GMT -5
I've been watching a lot of matches and events from the late 90's/early 2000's as of late after getting into Chris Jericho's two books. I wanted to go back and relive some of his, and the era's greatest moments and matches and I came across a bit of an observation that goes largely unmentioned these days.
Everyone always talks about the Attitude Era's superiority in terms of product quality when compared to the current state of the WWE. While I'm not one to necessarily long for the Attitude Era back (a time that produced some great storylines, but some less than stellar wrestling), I did notice one thing that that era, and even the early days of "Ruthless Aggression" had over today's product, something that makes the current WWE seem incredibly flat and emotionless.
The crowds.
The common thread in everything I've been watching is how lively and involved the crowd is. Whether it be the opening match, another mid-card bout, or the main event featuring the biggest stars in the company, the crowds were raucous, rowdy and genuinely invested in the characters and the angles. It's amazing how much of a dynamic it adds to the matches. The wrestlers are able to feed off of their energy and play to the reactions, and it makes everything significantly more entertaining.
What we consider to be a "hot" crowd by today's standards was essentially the norm back then. So what happened? When did the crowd begin to dramatically turn into the mostly dull, rarely lively bunch that we get at nearly all of the WWE shows these days?
It had to have been a gradual turn, because I feel like I, as well as many others, would have noticed if it had been a sharp turn due to a downturn in the product. Instead, we must have been conditioned to quieter crowds over a considerable length of time.
Granted, there are other factors from that time period that made things more exciting (the announcing, for example. Commentators actually sounded as though they cared, not simply running through the motions as Cole and Lawler do now), but the crowd plays such a significant role in the dynamic of the sport, that I can't help but wonder how much it is taking a tole on the overall quality of the product.
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Infinite
Main Eventer
Joined on: Aug 27, 2009 13:49:36 GMT -5
Posts: 2,608
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Post by Infinite on Jun 15, 2011 16:02:29 GMT -5
Well to be fair, a large amount of the crowd these days being parents that don't give a crap about the product probably doesn't help. But I totally agree, a hot crowd makes a match so much more entertaining.
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Post by Richikane on Jun 15, 2011 16:09:38 GMT -5
WWE overdubs the crowd more than you would think I've noticed. Also, WWE is in a transition period and going towards a product closer to the early 90s it seems, but a modern version. They are having characters from around the world with gimmicks to an extent, they aren't using too many weapons, its a PG product for the most part.
What thats going to do is refresh the product and attrack younger fans. So say 8-10 year olds get into the WWE because of the younger appeal right now. A few years down the road the WWE can move back to something resembling the Attitude Era because their new fan base will be a little older. Its a good move on their part.
I do agree that the crowds are more conservative now, but thats across the boards to concerts and all kinds of live shows. People seem to be more self conscious. But for some things WWE will alter the crowd reaction. Zach Ryder having a bigger pop than Cena isn't going to play well with them. They most likely changed the way they mic things up so they can mix the sounds to have the announcers loudest, followed by the sound of the slams, then have the crowd response as a background sound. Also having more younger kids that are too busy being amazing by everything will be more quiet and a bunch of drunk guys in their early 20s and rowdy high school kids like the crowds during the attitude era.
Thats my guess.
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Post by Brad on Jun 15, 2011 16:29:48 GMT -5
I've definitely noticed the difference in the crowds. It makes it a lot more enjoyable when the crowd that is in the building appears to be enjoying what they are seeing. I thought we saw some of that on Raw monday.
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Post by done on Jun 15, 2011 17:12:48 GMT -5
Well to be fair, a large amount of the crowd these days being parents that don't give a crap about the product probably doesn't help. But I totally agree, a hot crowd makes a match so much more entertaining. The L.A. crowd is always hot lol! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2011 18:37:33 GMT -5
I have noticed the crowds as well, My guess is down to the fact that everything in wrestling is down at the moment including attendance numbers, TV views, PPV and buys etc, I find it harder to care about the outcome of matches these days too.
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Post by k5 on Jun 15, 2011 19:33:22 GMT -5
wrestling is in a stagnant period right now.
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Post by KrimV on Jun 15, 2011 20:23:49 GMT -5
I would like to see more heel vs heel matches; I think that's a good way to test who the crowd would like more. Matches are very predictable currently and many of the guys aren't terribly interesting, so there's no reason to get really excited.
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Post by totti on Jun 15, 2011 20:48:35 GMT -5
the attitude era crowd was terribly obnoxious, and really annoying, you'd see a lot of stupid signs that had nothing to do with the product. i think todays crowds are fine, they get into it enough, and make it exciting when it needs to be. the attitude era to me, was awful i hated just about everything from it - the crowd, the crappy matches, the stupid storylines.
personally i think the WWE at the moment is doing good and for me, has been the most exciting its been in a long time, the last time i had this much of an interest in the shows was back in 2005. currently the roster is very good and theres new stars coming up, raw recently i think has been excellent i've been enjoying the cena/truth feud, riley/miz and mysterio/punk. and smackdown has been fun too. i don't see anything wrong with the shows being pg, it only takes away the stupid elements of that shows that shouldn't be in wrestling anyway, things that happened during the attitude era. the only thing i think the shows lack slightly now is blood and weapon use during important blood feuds, but even then i think blood use should be very rare and just on pay-per-views.
back to the original point, the attitude era crowd was always "hot" because wrestling was the "in" thing at the time, the shows were filled with idiots for the most part. the product then, in my opinion was crap.
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Post by juicewinslow on Jun 15, 2011 21:30:14 GMT -5
People like Stone Cold, The Rock, Vince McMahon, and Mankind were a lot more passionate (on the mic) than the wrestlers are today. That passion leaks into the crowd.
Also, during the Attitude Era, there weren't too many rules for the crowd. You were free to chant and hold up pretty much any signs you wanted. Much looser crowd.
Not to mention, most of the crowd was older than they are today.
Lots of drinking in the crowd.
I remember seeing lots of t*ts too. You would never see that today.
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Post by DTP. on Jun 15, 2011 21:35:00 GMT -5
Wrestling fans nowadays are a lot more cynical than they were.
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Post by wabarrett on Jun 16, 2011 11:47:31 GMT -5
I think it's a combination of things that make the crowds crap today:
1. A large portion of live audiences are youngsters, who probably only really pay attention to their heroes and the big heels that are attacking their heroes.
2. I also think a lot of the older fans only cheer on 'their guys'. I understand that, but if I had the chance to attend one of WWE's televised events, I'd be cheering for the faces and booing the hell out of the heels, because 1. it's fun, and 2. it's what WWE and the Superstars that go out there want from us as an audience. But whatever they decide to do, I think fans should at least try and get into whatever they're watching live. On top of this there are the Smarks who will just go along to cheer CM Punk and some jobber they like, boo all the faces cause the kids like them, and chant irrelevant crap throughout the show. This ruins it.
3. Part of the reason for the above is more than likely the fact that WWE don't pay enough attention to gettting their mid-card talents' personalities and characters across well enough, so not enough of the audiences care. If WWE invested more attention in them, maybe more fans would too.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2011 12:53:20 GMT -5
I genuinely believe WWEs cookie cutter developmental system is to blame partly.everyone l;ooks acts and wrestles the same. its a breath of fresh air to see guys like Sheamus,Del Rio and Sin Cara coming up. also many many characters are beyond stale.Big Show and kane feuding with Del Rio is a yawnfest for many because quite honestly its a wast of Del Rios talents. then theres WWEs ignoring stipulations like loser leaves town.I mean when Cena was fired they couldnt even keep him off TV for one  ing night.......how the hell is the crowd meant to get excited when the know whats gonna happen in these predictable times? God FORBID they stray even a touch from their strict script lest they induce mass hysteria amongst the fans. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2011 13:04:16 GMT -5
Man RAW was awesome last time though, everyone chanting for Punk or Cena, it sounded like the announcers forgot what a real crowd sounded like.
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1amgr8ness
Superstar
But you already know that
Joined on: Nov 12, 2003 12:33:59 GMT -5
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Post by 1amgr8ness on Jun 16, 2011 15:01:44 GMT -5
I don't even know how to reply to this thread. I think a lot of what you're saying is true but I just believe it's that AND MORE. To say the majority is based on this observation is a little forthcoming. The bottom line is that it's a mix of that and MORE. Bare basics: The WWE is focusing on outside ventures aside from wrestling and it's pouring into what we watch on weekly WWE TV. They're not really concerned with putting 100% in to the product we watch on TV. They are more focused on becoming an International brand that no one will recognize outside of the current major source of revenue.
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