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Post by The Sexy Psychotic on Oct 17, 2011 9:21:43 GMT -5
Yes, yes, this is another "this is what is wrong with WWE for me" threads but I'm not here to complain, no, infact I think the product is the best its been in a while, however already I can see it slightly going downhill, doing the same thing again. This got me thinking, what happened to the simple things that are used to further or add to a fued? Something to add to a debuting superstar?
Recently I've been watching way too much 97 Raw, and its just amazing how much better it is, yet there isn't much difference. We have the rebel, we have the arrogant top heel, we have a fued thats sort of breaking kayfabe, so why is a show from near 15 years ago better?
Simple, in 97 they used simplicity.
Whats happened to the Special Referee match?
Whats happened to the 'injury' requring a cast?
Whats happened to the psychology?
Whats happened to the fan interaction?
Whats happened to chracter growth?
Theres so many more, but you see, these things could be easily added into fueds we have today, adding more to them. For example, I for one am sick with Cena's constant hunt for the title, not to side track, but I want to say this. I'm fine with Cena being Champ, he should be, he's the guy, but have him keep the title, they need to stop this obsession with having Cena as the chaser, he doesn't suit it, its just the same thing as we got back in 06 with Edge.
But anyway, imagine Del Rio 'breaks' Cena's hand with his car on Raw. Cena having to wrestle the match at Vengence with a broken hand, it would lend to anything, if they did have Cena win, they could play up his strength, if he lost though, it wouldn't be too damaging due to the 'injury'.
Another thing, have Ricardo as the special ref, again it lends to either way they went.
These simple things are whats missing, but its what helps build a fued.
Another thing I'd say is needed is character growth, mainly, again, in Cena. Look back at WM10, then look at WM15. The difference is insane, the Main Event is completely different, the openers are now the closers. Now look at WM27 and go back to WM22, what really has changed? Cena's still doing the same thing really, Triple H is back in a face role which is started at WM22. Rey's still a big face, there is very little change in anything, but it adds to something else I feel is hurting WWE today, staleness.
Anyway, thats me, anyone else agree, or think I'm talking poop?
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Post by OverTheEdge on Oct 17, 2011 9:31:14 GMT -5
Simple, in 97 they used simplicity. Whats happened to the Special Referee match? Whats happened to the 'injury' requring a cast? Whats happened to the psychology? Whats happened to the fan interaction? Whats happened to chracter growth? Triple H at SummerSlam? Cody Rhodes'  ing face for the past half-year? The entire CM Punk angle over the summer? Zack Ryder? CM Punk? Mark Henry? |
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OYDK?
Main Eventer
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Post by OYDK? on Oct 17, 2011 9:33:45 GMT -5
Ridiculous, non-existant argument.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2011 9:37:21 GMT -5
Simple, in 97 they used simplicity. Whats happened to the Special Referee match? Whats happened to the 'injury' requring a cast? Whats happened to the psychology? Whats happened to the fan interaction? Whats happened to chracter growth? Triple H at SummerSlam? Cody Rhodes' ing face for the past half-year? The entire CM Punk angle over the summer? Zack Ryder? CM Punk? Mark Henry?  According to the OP anyways. |
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Post by The Sexy Psychotic on Oct 17, 2011 9:43:51 GMT -5
Triple H at SummerSlam? Cody Rhodes' ing face for the past half-year? The entire CM Punk angle over the summer? Zack Ryder? CM Punk? Mark Henry? According to the OP anyways. No, thats not right man. OK, I should have said originally I was mostly talking about the Main Event. Sure, Ok I forgot about Trips at SS, but come on, Cody's mask thing has meant nothing, its really brought nothing but a mask fued and stupidity. Ryder, fine, but thats one guy, what are heel doing, what are all the Main Eventers doing? Punk summer thing fine, again but its pretty much been made null now due to him becoming effectivly the opposite to what he was fighting for. And Henry character growth, we've seen this 'monster' Henry every few years now, all thats happened now is that he's gotten a push. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2011 10:17:26 GMT -5
The mask hasn't meant anything? A guy who ate his own crap about how dashing he was "loses" his good looks, becomes mentally unstable and decides to wear a mask and constantly derides the fans about how they're uglier than him outside and inside while occasionally using the mask as a weapon and is placing paper bags over people's heads so he can "hide" their ugliness from him/embarrass them. There's also been a bit of doubt he's still "injured", so there's also the "How long will he take advantage of having the mask as a weapon/whose going to get rid of his mask" storyline they can go to.
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Post by The Sexy Psychotic on Oct 17, 2011 11:24:31 GMT -5
The mask hasn't meant anything? A guy who ate his own crap about how dashing he was "loses" his good looks, becomes mentally unstable and decides to wear a mask and constantly derides the fans about how they're uglier than him outside and inside while occasionally using the mask as a weapon and is placing paper bags over people's heads so he can "hide" their ugliness from him/embarrass them. There's also been a bit of doubt he's still "injured", so there's also the "How long will he take advantage of having the mask as a weapon/whose going to get rid of his mask" storyline they can go to. But whats it meant, really? The guy doesn't want people to see his face, so he wears a claer mask.  Since Rey, it hasn't mattered, its just there. Now if he was still doing the darker stuff and someone was trying to take it off then sure, then it'd mean something, but its adding nothing but a cheap way to end his matches when they're stuck for ideas. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2011 11:54:57 GMT -5
I agree with the OP on a lot of stuff but you're going to get torn up on this board because you're "living in the past" and "since you don't like WWE right now, you're not a fan" and "WWE is goooood right now".
I'm bored with the product and have been for some time. The original Nexus angle was good and they screwed that up. The original CM Punk angle was good and thats already ruined. I'd rather watch 1997 too because at least I won't fast forward through 80% of the show just to find something I'm remotely interested in.
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rkoorfu
Mid-Carder
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Post by rkoorfu on Oct 17, 2011 13:45:13 GMT -5
I agree with this, but on the same note 97 also had guys like rock and austin which also make watching raw a lot easier
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2011 15:03:56 GMT -5
The mask hasn't meant anything? A guy who ate his own crap about how dashing he was "loses" his good looks, becomes mentally unstable and decides to wear a mask and constantly derides the fans about how they're uglier than him outside and inside while occasionally using the mask as a weapon and is placing paper bags over people's heads so he can "hide" their ugliness from him/embarrass them. There's also been a bit of doubt he's still "injured", so there's also the "How long will he take advantage of having the mask as a weapon/whose going to get rid of his mask" storyline they can go to. But whats it meant, really? The guy doesn't want people to see his face, so he wears a claer mask. Since Rey, it hasn't mattered, its just there. Now if he was still doing the darker stuff and someone was trying to take it off then sure, then it'd mean something, but its adding nothing but a cheap way to end his matches when they're stuck for ideas. You're asking for character growth and yet this a perfect example, the mask has ment a lot for cody's character, it went from him being dashing and telling the audience how ugly they are to him being in shame and trying to over compansate for it with the paper bags Like snice when has and injury or a cast ment more than that..sure hbk and bret both had casts during 97 but did that ever really mean anything other than them being injured? I do agree with you on cena...ether give him the belt and let him hold for a while, or have him in a non title feud |
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Post by wabarrett on Oct 17, 2011 15:41:12 GMT -5
I think they are doing great in terms of character growth. The Special Guest Referee match is better when not used constantly. Edge sold an injury by taping his ribs up for weeks before WrestleMania. Miz/ Truth, Air Boom, Ryder, Cena, Punk, Santino and others all interact with fans well IMO.
What WWE need to work on:
- Building PPV cards in more than a fortnight.
- Commentators calling matches rather than ripping each other.
- Generally making matches seem a bigger deal.
- Use guys like Regal, Kidd, Gabriel, Slater, The Usos, Yoshi, Ryder more often.
- Stop doing the same Divas tag team match every week.
- And most of all, have more mid-card Title defenses and more challengers; it seems if a guy isn't going for the World Title, they aren't challenging at all. Everyone should be competing for Championship matches, that's, like, the whole reason they wrestle.
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Post by ASR (therockisback) on Oct 17, 2011 15:46:11 GMT -5
I think they are doing great in terms of character growth. The Special Guest Referee match is better when not used constantly. Edge sold an injury by taping his ribs up for weeks before WrestleMania. Miz/ Truth, Air Boom, Ryder, Cena, Punk, Santino and others all interact with fans well IMO. What WWE need to work on: - Building PPV cards in more than a fortnight. - Commentators calling matches rather than ripping each other. - Generally making matches seem a bigger deal. - Use guys like Regal, Kidd, Gabriel, Slater, The Usos, Yoshi, Ryder more often. - Stop doing the same Divas tag team match every week. - And most of all, have more mid-card Title defenses and more challengers; it seems if a guy isn't going for the World Title, they aren't challenging at all. Everyone should be competing for Championship matches, that's, like, the whole reason they wrestle. Most of this and stop with the 6 man, 8 man, 10 man tag matches. Also rebuild the tag team division which WWE are doing great with and soon if done right the tag division could be great again, Give it a year or to for WWE to sign or bring back some good tag teams. |
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Post by Irish Wrestling Entertainment on Oct 17, 2011 16:37:32 GMT -5
Well, put it this way. WWE have slowly turned World Titles into nothing more than a prop. So what does that make the Intercontinental title, or the US title?
First and foremost, they need to increase the prestige of these titles. To do this, a main event talent from each brand needs the strap immediately. I'd nominate Kane for the Intercontinental and say, Rey Mysterio (when back from injury) for the US title. So have Kane come back, beat Cody Rhodes, give them a meaningful 2-3 month fight for the strap, have Cody come out victorious and start again with a new opponent who has been built up to be exciting.
The reason the product is so one dimensional (i.e... only the Main Event actually matters) is because most of the other guys aren't given mic time. So why should we care about them? We can't even relate to them. Rhodes was given mic time, and people care. So what do they do, push him to a feud with Orton? Okay, that's great! But what about the rest of the card? Nobody cares about them. Make them care, WWE.
And although I agree with the principal of your post, I think the specific examples chosen were a bit weak. Regardless, that shouldn't undermine what you were trying to say, which was predominantly true. The WWE has so many things going for it, but somehow it fails to capitolize on them as much as it could. But once they fix the fundamentals ^^^^ then they can worry about the little things and improve the product as a whole.
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