ellisd
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Post by ellisd on Nov 27, 2012 19:41:00 GMT -5
Ok, I just finished watching the Monday Night Wars DVD again (probably the 10th time I've watched this), and it got my gears turning.
1. There are many things that contributed to the death of WCW. But ironically one of those things in my opinion was the very storyline that helped make it such a strong force in 1996, the nWo. I think the nWo was a great idea and worked really well. But the nWo continually growing in numbers and including people who had no business being in the group, eventually began to water it down. Again I know this isn't the one thing that killed WCW but I feel that WCW's inability to properly move on from the nWo and put the same creative effort into new ideas really hurt the company.
My question, what would you guys have done differently with WCW? What do you think would have helped the company to continue to grow? If possible point out some specific events that you would have changed.
2. While we're on the topic of nWo: I've heard that leading into Bash at the Beach, they had a backup plan to turn Sting heel and leading the nWo, if they decided against turning Hogan. How do you guys think this would have played out?
I think Hogan was the best bet being that Hall and Nash were being used as 'WWF' guys.
3. Seeing as how WCW couldn't 'let go' of the nWo storyline, how do you think the nWo should have ended. It was a good storyline, but as with most stories, it had to come to an end and someone had to come out on top WCW or NWO, but they never really had that ending moment.
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Post by mikey1974 on Nov 27, 2012 20:55:12 GMT -5
the nWo was a great concept that,unfortunately, Bischoff and WCW ran right into the frigging ground. if they had kept it just the original guys - Hogan, Nash,Hall, Syxx, The Giant,and Ted Dibiase i think it would've still been great. and you have "disposable" guys like Syxx and the Giant who could get kicked out and replaced with other guys down the line ( Scott Steiner and Buff Bagwell for instance)... as someone said in the recently released nWo DVD -set : EVERYONE was nWo by 1999. there was hardly anyone on the actual WCW roster left to face them.
Sting wouldn't have worked cause he was always THE face of WCW. Hogan truly was an "Outsider" from up north,and there were many WCW fans who never truly accepted him in their federation. it made total sense for Hogan to be the 3rd guy from up north.
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ellisd
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Joined on: May 26, 2009 0:30:49 GMT -5
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Post by ellisd on Nov 27, 2012 21:25:58 GMT -5
the nWo was a great concept that,unfortunately, Bischoff and WCW ran right into the frigging ground. if they had kept it just the original guys - Hogan, Nash,Hall, Syxx, The Giant,and Ted Dibiase i think it would've still been great. and you have "disposable" guys like Syxx and the Giant who could get kicked out and replaced with other guys down the line ( Scott Steiner and Buff Bagwell for instance)... as someone said in the recently released nWo DVD -set : EVERYONE was nWo by 1999. there was hardly anyone on the actual WCW roster left to face them. Sting wouldn't have worked cause he was always THE face of WCW. Hogan truly was an "Outsider" from up north,and there were many WCW fans who never truly accepted him in their federation. it made total sense for Hogan to be the 3rd guy from up north. I agree, they expanded the group to include way to many members. Being that they were such an impactful group, it should have stayed with big names or guys that they were planning on pushing. All due respect to guys like Mike Rotunda, Stevie Ray, and Big Bubba, but they didn't really fit with the nwo and they weren't really being used by wcw either, so it did nothing but water down the nWo by having so many guys like that.
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Post by cordless2016 on Nov 28, 2012 9:15:10 GMT -5
The nWo should have simply been the origional three members with Syxx, Giant, and Scott Steiner as the only other members. The group got so watered down that it seemed that they had more members than WCW. And WCW guys should have been percieved as hanging with the nWo. Luger, Flair, The Steiners, Giant, and eventually Sting were all beaten so bad by Hogan and his cronies that the fans never believed that WCW had a chance to defeat them, even with Goldberg.
Thats the thing that I think hurt them too, because we never got a true finish to the storyline. The nWo just kept poping back up here and there and we never got to see Sting or Goldberg finally end the group once and for all. The begining of the end for the nWo should have came at Starcade 97 w/ Sting defeating Hogan, and then with the group starting to crumble and an eventually break up with Hogan and Nash feuding with eachother.
After 1997, WCW didn't need the nWo because if used correctly, they had Sting already set up to be their top guy, Bret Hart coming in with huge momentum, and Goldberg who was just about to jump onto the scene. I think WCW would have continued to dominate the ratings had they ended the nWo stuff in early 1998 and focused on Sting, Hart, and Goldberg chasing for the world title, Hogan and Nash feuding over the breakup of the nWo, and pushing guys like DDP, Benoit, Booker T, Jericho, and Raven to eventually be the new top guys (obviously politics would never allow this to happen).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2012 9:23:02 GMT -5
Too many guys. They just kept throwing guys into the faction that didn't need to be there.
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outlawhunter73
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Post by outlawhunter73 on Nov 28, 2012 10:29:58 GMT -5
Here are some things that I feel that brought the end to WCW
- I think too many wrestlers had creative control in thier contracts. - Too many people were in the NWO. - Goldberg was pushed too hard too soon. - the treatment of guys like Jerico and the radicals that caused them to leave.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2012 10:32:47 GMT -5
WCW closed because Time Warner and AOL merged and didn't want wrestling on TNT anymore, not because of the NWO.
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Post by LtD73 on Nov 28, 2012 10:33:56 GMT -5
If Sting had turned heel with nWo instead of Hogan it probably would've set up Macho Man bringing Hogan in and then Mega Powers vs nWo
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2012 13:43:46 GMT -5
Ive always agreed with the inclusion of Hennig and Savage in the nWo...they were WWF guys too so to me it made sense.
I liked heel Steiner but he didnt need to be in the nWo IMHO.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2012 13:50:12 GMT -5
They didn't wanna push young talent or make new "homegrown" stars.
By the time they got around to it with guys like Goldberg and Booker T it was too late.
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Post by Next Man’s Yeeter on Nov 28, 2012 14:21:30 GMT -5
It was always doomed. Creative control meant that the NWO was never going to get its comeuppance. The creative staff saw "put him in the NWO" as a shortcut to get any wrestler heat, and the pampered stars loved that too because it meant the new members could work house shows instead of them. You could put Virgil in a main event if he had an NWO shirt on, and that meant Scott Hall could be at home drinking instead of working.
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bigraj
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Post by bigraj on Nov 28, 2012 19:57:56 GMT -5
WCW closed because Time Warner and AOL merged and didn't want wrestling on TNT anymore, not because of the NWO. That would be the top reason. It didn't help that so much money was being lost on ridiculous crap like the KISS Demon, Master P and the No Limit Soldiers (and having them be the babyfaces against a group of "rednecks" in a promotion based in the South), over-inflated contracts, over-rated creative team, etc.
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ellisd
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Post by ellisd on Nov 29, 2012 1:57:04 GMT -5
WCW closed because Time Warner and AOL merged and didn't want wrestling on TNT anymore, not because of the NWO. Yes that is the official reason WCW died. But if you could honestly look back at the last couple of years and not see a lot wrong with the company, then you're probably not looking hard enough. They may have never pulled the plug on WCW if not for the Time Warner/AOL deal, but WCW had fallen far behind the company that it had been and should have still been.
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ellisd
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Joined on: May 26, 2009 0:30:49 GMT -5
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Post by ellisd on Nov 29, 2012 2:04:25 GMT -5
The nWo should have simply been the origional three members with Syxx, Giant, and Scott Steiner as the only other members. The group got so watered down that it seemed that they had more members than WCW. And WCW guys should have been percieved as hanging with the nWo. Luger, Flair, The Steiners, Giant, and eventually Sting were all beaten so bad by Hogan and his cronies that the fans never believed that WCW had a chance to defeat them, even with Goldberg. Thats the thing that I think hurt them too, because we never got a true finish to the storyline. The nWo just kept poping back up here and there and we never got to see Sting or Goldberg finally end the group once and for all. The begining of the end for the nWo should have came at Starcade 97 w/ Sting defeating Hogan, and then with the group starting to crumble and an eventually break up with Hogan and Nash feuding with eachother. After 1997, WCW didn't need the nWo because if used correctly, they had Sting already set up to be their top guy, Bret Hart coming in with huge momentum, and Goldberg who was just about to jump onto the scene. I think WCW would have continued to dominate the ratings had they ended the nWo stuff in early 1998 and focused on Sting, Hart, and Goldberg chasing for the world title, Hogan and Nash feuding over the breakup of the nWo, and pushing guys like DDP, Benoit, Booker T, Jericho, and Raven to eventually be the new top guys (obviously politics would never allow this to happen). I agree. I think the Sting vs Hogan match from Starcade should have been when the nWo started to unravel.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2012 13:29:25 GMT -5
Sting vs Hogan @ Starrcade 97 is still one of the WORST booking travesties ever committed to the screen.
Damn Hogans ego and Bischoffs cowardice to hell.
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Post by mikey1974 on Nov 29, 2012 14:09:52 GMT -5
Sting vs Hogan @ Starrcade 97 is still one of the WORST booking travesties ever committed to the screen. Damn Hogans ego and Bischoffs cowardice to hell. LOL! you and I will argue for this with the rest of the world for all eternity. I still believe Hogan-Sting was the bullet that entered the stomach of WCW,and started to slow gut-poisoning that eventually led to it's death, even after the bullet wound had healed! this was THE most hyped match in WCW history,and one of the most in wrestling history. WWF fans were watching it. WCW fans were watching it. ECW fans were watching it. casual viewers were watching it. and the frigging blew it. big time. and I honestly think it was the 1st step on the way to the end,even if no one knew it at the time. cause it showed that a star's ego would win out over the proper booking for a match. "Doesn't matter what is best for the promotion. I have creative control over my character and matches. F-you!" in retrospect,it's kind of a wonder Hogan even LOST! i mean,really, i'm surprised he didn't put himslef over Sting and be done with it!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2012 15:44:49 GMT -5
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ellisd
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Post by ellisd on Nov 30, 2012 18:13:23 GMT -5
They did handle Sting horribly during that time. He was one of the main WCW guys, and they treated him like just another guy on the roster.
You would think they would have kept the nWo mainly made up of former WWF guys. Following Sting's victory at Starcade, the nWo should have slowly started to crumble. with Sting's victory inspiring them, some of the other main WCW should have banded together with Sting. Then after WCW finally defeated the (former WWF guys) nWo, the company could have used it to be somewhat symbolic. I could see one of the announcers saying something about how they had sent there best, but WCW was too much for them........
.....but it didn't happen that way.
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Post by mikey1974 on Nov 30, 2012 19:31:13 GMT -5
and they kinda set it up that way too! with Nash no-showing his match with the Giant, so Hall got beat to hell instead...
Zbysko beating Bischoff to gain control of Nitro for WCW...
DDP beating Curt Henning for the US Championship...
and finally Sting beating Hogan for the World Championship...
granted,the nWo won a couple undercard matches, but the four "Main" matches went in WCW's favor. they had ALL the momentum in the feud after the event was over. instead of capitalizing on that, and basically making the 1st half of 1998 "The WCW Strikes Back" after a year and a half of being overrun by the nWo, as well as the crumbling of the nWo internally as the losses began to mount and the titles kept getting dropped back to WCW wrestlers...instead we got pretty much a redux of 1997.
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500DaysofNight
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Post by 500DaysofNight on Dec 1, 2012 9:31:37 GMT -5
I've just came to the conclusion that Sting too loyal for his own good. I mean it's great to have a person like him in the company that will do whatever you need them to. But it gets to a point where if you do TOO much, it starts coming back on YOU and hindering YOU. WCW snuffed out Sting as quick as a blown out match. He stayed in that company and got treated like garbage.
I seriously hope that when his current TNA contract runs out, that he FINALLY signs with the 'E. It's freakin' time for it and it's been too long of a wait. Let the man have a couple big matches, induct him into the HOF and make an awesome retrospective of his career. He at least deserves that much for all he's had to deal with.
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