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Post by The Sexy Psychotic on Mar 9, 2013 18:04:44 GMT -5
Now, he gets so much hate, whether its his promo style, or his wrestling ability. But after watching two matches today, I have to say, Warrior at Mania was simply awesome.
The first match was WM6, and my god, this is an insane match, so good, I'm not a fan of Hogan at all, and sure, maybe the wrestling isn't at that high of a level, but the story thats told is just incredible.
The second was the match one year later, Warrior and MachoMan, and this is seriously one of the best Mania matches I think to ever take place, heck I'd put it in my top 5. Again, the story of the match is simply incredible, they both went out and had an insanely great, physical match.
My point, the Warrior at Mania had some of the best matches to ever take place on the grandest stage.
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Post by Nivro™ on Mar 9, 2013 18:07:48 GMT -5
I was watching the history of wrestlemania yesterday (older version, its on ON DEMAND right now) and they highlighted his matches with Rude (WMV), Hogan (WMVI) and Savage (WMVII)....while he did have great matches, we also have to remember he also was working with some of the biggest stars of the era as well as some of the best workers in Rude & Savages case. Not trying to take away from Warrior as I loved all 3 mentioned matches but it wasnt just him.
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Post by Mr. Orange on Mar 9, 2013 18:29:23 GMT -5
And dont forget abut the epic encounter vs HHH at WrestleMania 12
Ok seriously though, Warrior at Mania delievered, but I think it had a lot to do with who he was in the ring with as Nivro mentioned. Rude was an unbelievable worker, but only managed to get barely passable matches out of Warrior.
Truth be told, I was most impressed with his performance against Hogan at 6 out of all of them. Those two told a damn good story and had a great match that couldn't be replicated (asseen at Halloween Havoc). Similar case with Savage at 7. Great match there with a great story but the rematch was terrible.
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Post by Scott! on Mar 9, 2013 18:43:11 GMT -5
Yeah, he seemed to really step up at wrestlemania. His match with hogan @ Wm 6 is my favourite hogan match and warrior match from both of their careers.
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Post by wyleecyotee on Mar 9, 2013 19:09:59 GMT -5
He did, I really enjoy the two matches and they deserve all the credit they get. You dont get story telling in matches like that these days. And on the "he was in the ring with good workers", it takes two to tango.
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Billy the Kid
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Post by Billy the Kid on Mar 9, 2013 19:22:16 GMT -5
He did, I really enjoy the two matches and they deserve all the credit they get. You dont get story telling in matches like that these days. And on the "he was in the ring with good workers", it takes two to tango. Agreed. Hulk Hogan may not have been the best in-ring worker but he knew how to build a match and tell a story in the ring. Warrior did as well, his comebacks were timed perfectly although his selling left a lot to be desired. One wrestler can carry another but Hogan wasn't the type of guy that could do that very well. Warrior-Hogan at WMVI was very good, but it's because they both knew how to tell a story. And maybe it's just me but I think the only reason Warrior had good matches at WrestleMania was because his payoff was probably more than most of our annual salaries.
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Post by hulkhogancollector on Mar 9, 2013 23:53:17 GMT -5
Warrior was underrated in many ways. So is Hogan, you don't main event high level Wrestlemania matches year and year out and be a "bad worker"
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Post by Emerald Enthusiast on Mar 10, 2013 6:09:39 GMT -5
Eh...he was a mixed bag.
His match vs Hercules was forgettable.
He nearly injured Rick Rude with his sloppiness at WM 5.
His match with Hogan was greater than the sum of it's parts--truly a classic.
His match with Savage was great from a storytelling perspective, although Warrior didn't display above average athleticm that day.
His match with Trips was a squash.
So, I'd definitely say a hot & cold history of WM performances.
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Post by Double J JoshuaJohn on Mar 10, 2013 6:52:59 GMT -5
Who remembers at wm12 the king said he was 400pounds and had a bald head?!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2013 7:39:13 GMT -5
Hogan and Warrior aren't really bad workers. They can go out and entertain which is actually quite a rare gift. They don't deserve half the hate they get. I also love Warrior vs Triple H .
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PVA
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Too hot to handle and too cold to hold
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Post by PVA on Mar 10, 2013 9:40:44 GMT -5
Eh...he was a mixed bag. His match vs Hercules was forgettable. He nearly injured Rick Rude with his sloppiness at WM 5. His match with Hogan was greater than the sum of it's parts--truly a classic. His match with Savage was great from a storytelling perspective, although Warrior didn't display above average athleticm that day. His match with Trips was a squash. So, I'd definitely say a hot & cold history of WM performances. A bit nit picking. I could do the same for the 'great' HHH. For instance WM 18, 25 were two of the worst WM Main Events of all time. (not THE worst at least) Still everything about Warrior/Hogan and Warrior/Savage was gold on both parties from the build up, match itself to the post match celebration. Warrior performance in those matches were more then acceptable if not great. Just because he didnt do a moonsault doesnt mean he showed zero athleticism. C'mon man, especially for 1990-91. Nearly killing Rude at WM5? Umm, sounds more like IWC hate or sour grapes from wwe. Im a huge Rude fan but he wasnt a great technical wrestler and his best matches came later on in his wcw run. Nobody considered him great in 1989. Warrior typically gave great effort on the big events.
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Post by Nivro™ on Mar 10, 2013 16:02:47 GMT -5
Hogan and Warrior aren't really bad workers. They can go out and entertain which is actually quite a rare gift. They don't deserve half the hate they get. I also love Warrior vs Triple H . Hogan is actually a decent worker. You can look at his Japanese and AWA stuff and tell that. Warrior though is just entertainment only. Ring work wise, just about any pro wrestler walking could do what he did. Including Lex Luger.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2013 19:55:45 GMT -5
Always loved his Wrestlemania match with Macho Man.
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robl7up
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Post by robl7up on Mar 10, 2013 19:57:04 GMT -5
I'm a fan of WARRIOR and its so true that at MANIA he seemed to step up his game and delivered great matches.
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Post by Brad on Mar 10, 2013 20:30:06 GMT -5
I also love Warrior vs Triple H . Why doesn't that surprise me coming from you? Lol
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HuskerTornado
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Post by HuskerTornado on Mar 12, 2013 0:03:29 GMT -5
I know most will disagree and not like this, but...I feel like it needs to be said.
People always go out of their way to disparage the Ultimate Warrior. Hardly anyone wants to give the guy the credit he earned and deserves. He paid his dues down in the territories, and couldn't help but get mega pushes because of his massive popularity.
Every thread about him on every wrestling forum inevitably has some variation of: "Yeah, he was in some of the greatest matches in history, BUT..." "Yeah, he's one of the most entertaining characters the industry has ever seen, BUT..."
Professional wrestling is a work. It's entertainment, not a sporting competition. You are either an entertaining performer or you are not. If a guy doesn't know the difference between an arm bar and a wrist lock, who cares? As long as he is putting on an entertaining show, driving merchandise sales, getting butts in seats and PPV buys, that's what matters. Warrior did that in spades.
It takes two to tango in the ring. If just anybody could have performed the role of Warrior in those matches, why aren't all of Hogan's matches as good as WM6? Why aren't all of Savage's matches as good as WM7? Savage vs. Hogan at Wrestlemania 5 wasn't as good as either match from WM6 or WM7. Why is that?
He wasn't the most prolific technical guy but when the match called for it, he could perform (there are some great early matches with Savage as well). His character, personification of intensity, simply would not have worked had he gone out and flopped all over the mat like Ric Flair for 25 minutes each night. While most of his matches with Andre in 89 were squashes, there are a couple floating around from MSG or BG where they were in the 15-20 minute range and really had the crowd on their feet throughout.
Sgt. Slaughter was with the WWF during times of Hulkamania's peak, Stone Cold, The Rock, etc., and is on record of saying nobody got the house off their feet and pop like Warrior did. Slaughter's ears would ring. That's as good as it gets in the sports entertainment business.
The guy hasn't been in a ring on this continent since 1998 and still a few times each year, you'll see signs on RAW with him mentioned. Not bad for a guy that some want to make you believe couldn't work in the ring and had no mic skills. I guess anybody with makeup and ropes tied to their arms would have left that kind of mark on the business.
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Post by hulkhogancollector on Mar 12, 2013 0:18:35 GMT -5
I know most will disagree and not like this, but...I feel like it needs to be said. People always go out of their way to disparage the Ultimate Warrior. Hardly anyone wants to give the guy the credit he earned and deserves. He paid his dues down in the territories, and couldn't help but get mega pushes because of his massive popularity. Every thread about him on every wrestling forum inevitably has some variation of: "Yeah, he was in some of the greatest matches in history, BUT..." "Yeah, he's one of the most entertaining characters the industry has ever seen, BUT..." Professional wrestling is a work. It's entertainment, not a sporting competition. You are either an entertaining performer or you are not. If a guy doesn't know the difference between an arm bar and a wrist lock, who cares? As long as he is putting on an entertaining show, driving merchandise sales, getting butts in seats and PPV buys, that's what matters. Warrior did that in spades. It takes two to tango in the ring. If just anybody could have performed the role of Warrior in those matches, why aren't all of Hogan's matches as good as WM6? Why aren't all of Savage's matches as good as WM7? Savage vs. Hogan at Wrestlemania 5 wasn't as good as either match from WM6 or WM7. Why is that? He wasn't the most prolific technical guy but when the match called for it, he could perform (there are some great early matches with Savage as well). His character, personification of intensity, simply would not have worked had he gone out and flopped all over the mat like Ric Flair for 25 minutes each night. While most of his matches with Andre in 89 were squashes, there are a couple floating around from MSG or BG where they were in the 15-20 minute range and really had the crowd on their feet throughout. Sgt. Slaughter was with the WWF during times of Hulkamania's peak, Stone Cold, The Rock, etc., and is on record of saying nobody got the house off their feet and pop like Warrior did. Slaughter's ears would ring. That's as good as it gets in the sports entertainment business. The guy hasn't been in a ring on this continent since 1998 and still a few times each year, you'll see signs on RAW with him mentioned. Not bad for a guy that some want to make you believe couldn't work in the ring and had no mic skills. I guess anybody with makeup and ropes tied to their arms would have left that kind of mark on the business. Well said
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Post by Emerald Enthusiast on Mar 12, 2013 0:37:55 GMT -5
A bit nit picking. I could do the same for the 'great' HHH. For instance WM 18, 25 were two of the worst WM Main Events of all time. (not THE worst at least) Still everything about Warrior/Hogan and Warrior/Savage was gold on both parties from the build up, match itself to the post match celebration. Warrior performance in those matches were more then acceptable if not great. Just because he didnt do a moonsault doesnt mean he showed zero athleticism. C'mon man, especially for 1990-91.
Nearly killing Rude at WM5? Umm, sounds more like IWC hate or sour grapes from wwe.Im a huge Rude fan but he wasnt a great technical wrestler and his best matches came later on in his wcw run. Nobody considered him great in 1989. Warrior typically gave great effort on the big events. Warrior wasn't a natural athlete. His coordination and timing were poor. He did improve somewhat during his WWF title run, but he still blew far too many spots. One of the worst was at WM 5. He gave Rude a backbreaker, tried to stand up with Rude, lost his balance and the two of them ended up tangled in the ropes. I also saw him regularly miscalculate his double ax handle and have to stretch just to make contact with one hand. For a main eventer, this is completely unacceptable. With Warrior, the best part of the match was the entrance. It was extremely energetic and colorful. However, once the bell rang, what we usually got was either pedestrian or laughable. Although I would agree on HHH too. He lacked body control for a long time, especially after he added muscle mass. Like Warrior, he got better, but most of his best matches came with a superior worker carrying him.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2013 3:30:45 GMT -5
I know most will disagree and not like this, but...I feel like it needs to be said. People always go out of their way to disparage the Ultimate Warrior. Hardly anyone wants to give the guy the credit he earned and deserves. He paid his dues down in the territories, and couldn't help but get mega pushes because of his massive popularity. Every thread about him on every wrestling forum inevitably has some variation of: "Yeah, he was in some of the greatest matches in history, BUT..." "Yeah, he's one of the most entertaining characters the industry has ever seen, BUT..." Professional wrestling is a work. It's entertainment, not a sporting competition. You are either an entertaining performer or you are not. If a guy doesn't know the difference between an arm bar and a wrist lock, who cares? As long as he is putting on an entertaining show, driving merchandise sales, getting butts in seats and PPV buys, that's what matters. Warrior did that in spades. It takes two to tango in the ring. If just anybody could have performed the role of Warrior in those matches, why aren't all of Hogan's matches as good as WM6? Why aren't all of Savage's matches as good as WM7? Savage vs. Hogan at Wrestlemania 5 wasn't as good as either match from WM6 or WM7. Why is that? He wasn't the most prolific technical guy but when the match called for it, he could perform (there are some great early matches with Savage as well). His character, personification of intensity, simply would not have worked had he gone out and flopped all over the mat like Ric Flair for 25 minutes each night. While most of his matches with Andre in 89 were squashes, there are a couple floating around from MSG or BG where they were in the 15-20 minute range and really had the crowd on their feet throughout. Sgt. Slaughter was with the WWF during times of Hulkamania's peak, Stone Cold, The Rock, etc., and is on record of saying nobody got the house off their feet and pop like Warrior did. Slaughter's ears would ring. That's as good as it gets in the sports entertainment business. The guy hasn't been in a ring on this continent since 1998 and still a few times each year, you'll see signs on RAW with him mentioned. Not bad for a guy that some want to make you believe couldn't work in the ring and had no mic skills. I guess anybody with makeup and ropes tied to their arms would have left that kind of mark on the business. Excellent post, sir.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2013 6:25:28 GMT -5
I know most will disagree and not like this, but...I feel like it needs to be said. People always go out of their way to disparage the Ultimate Warrior. Hardly anyone wants to give the guy the credit he earned and deserves. He paid his dues down in the territories, and couldn't help but get mega pushes because of his massive popularity. Every thread about him on every wrestling forum inevitably has some variation of: "Yeah, he was in some of the greatest matches in history, BUT..." "Yeah, he's one of the most entertaining characters the industry has ever seen, BUT..." Professional wrestling is a work. It's entertainment, not a sporting competition. You are either an entertaining performer or you are not. If a guy doesn't know the difference between an arm bar and a wrist lock, who cares? As long as he is putting on an entertaining show, driving merchandise sales, getting butts in seats and PPV buys, that's what matters. Warrior did that in spades. It takes two to tango in the ring. If just anybody could have performed the role of Warrior in those matches, why aren't all of Hogan's matches as good as WM6? Why aren't all of Savage's matches as good as WM7? Savage vs. Hogan at Wrestlemania 5 wasn't as good as either match from WM6 or WM7. Why is that? He wasn't the most prolific technical guy but when the match called for it, he could perform (there are some great early matches with Savage as well). His character, personification of intensity, simply would not have worked had he gone out and flopped all over the mat like Ric Flair for 25 minutes each night. While most of his matches with Andre in 89 were squashes, there are a couple floating around from MSG or BG where they were in the 15-20 minute range and really had the crowd on their feet throughout. Sgt. Slaughter was with the WWF during times of Hulkamania's peak, Stone Cold, The Rock, etc., and is on record of saying nobody got the house off their feet and pop like Warrior did. Slaughter's ears would ring. That's as good as it gets in the sports entertainment business. The guy hasn't been in a ring on this continent since 1998 and still a few times each year, you'll see signs on RAW with him mentioned. Not bad for a guy that some want to make you believe couldn't work in the ring and had no mic skills. I guess anybody with makeup and ropes tied to their arms would have left that kind of mark on the business. great post. far too many people bought into the Ultimate Warrior DVD from WWE wholesale.
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