|
|
Post by Lorenzo Alcazar on Jun 17, 2013 0:56:24 GMT -5
I don't want this thread to come off like me bitching, I'm just a frustrated fan who would rather be shocked/surprised every once in a while instead of having everything so painfully obvious and laid out in front of me like a road map by the WWE.
There's so many things we could get into, but for right now I'm just going to focus on DEBUTS and RETURNS. Could WWE handle them any worse than the way they currently do?
Now, I understand that WWE is a business and their bottom line is not going to be put on the back burner for an angle. They need to make money, they want us to buy the PPV's, and even though they aren't in direct competition with any other WRESTLING company during the time slots of any of their shows, they do compete with other forms of entertainment for advertisement spots, so to a certain extent from an advertisement revenue perspective, ratings are important too.
However, I just don't get why pretty much every Superstar who is making their debut or making their return has to have the cat let out of the bag looooooooooong before it happens. Guys like Undertaker, Chris Jericho, and Kane (just to name a few) in the past have had their returns just butchered by WWE with weeks and weeks of video packages that just go on for so long that by the time the Superstar makes his return it has lost all sense of importance and doesn't feel special anymore.
Let's look at Rob Van Dam for a moment, because he's the guy who's in line for the next big return. Is there any logical reasoning as to why WWE had to go ahead and announce to the world tonight that Rob Van Dam would be returning to the WWE at Money in the Bank on July 14th when today is only June 17th? We've got a whole month now for the importance of that announcement to fade and for everyone to settle in to the mind set that he's a WWE Superstar once again. By the time he actually wrestles it's going to feel like he's been back forever.
Like I said, I understand WWE wants to save him for the PPV and get as many people to buy as possible. It'd in Philly so they probably want to try and capitalize on him being an ECW Original...but is there any reason, unless Rob Van Dam's schedule is somehow booked SOLID from now until July 14th, that he couldn't show up as a surprise on RAW and announce that he's coming back at Money in the Bank? If Rob Van Dam's music had hit on RAW tomorrow night and he walked out as a complete surprise to the audience and the TV viewers and he announced he's back and will wrestle at Money in the Bank, all it would have cost WWE was ONE LESS DAY to promote his return at Money in the Bank. Instead, we get a WWE.com article and, no shock here, a VIDEO PACKAGE. They will probably show that video package to death until July 14th.
I am just not of the belief that every person who makes their debut or return requires weeks and weeks of video packages. I want to be surprised. I want to feel like every episode of RAW is CAN'T MISS because ANYTHING could happen. Now, you pretty much know that NOTHING shocking or surprising is ever going to happen on RAW because even if something big is going to happen they'll just spoil it with a video package, a TWEET, or a WWE APP alert and ruin it before it happens anyway.
|
|
PenguinDeluxe
Main Eventer
20 Refs and Counting
Joined on: Dec 19, 2006 21:22:54 GMT -5
Posts: 4,932
|
Post by PenguinDeluxe on Jun 17, 2013 0:57:44 GMT -5
Because if they don't promote it, people won't have that extra incentive to tune in?
|
|
|
|
Post by Lorenzo Alcazar on Jun 17, 2013 1:03:15 GMT -5
Because if they don't promote it, people won't have that extra incentive to tune in? I'm not sure what you mean by incentive? Like I said, instead of a WWE.com article and a video package TONIGHT, why not have RVD show up in person TOMORROW on RAW as a surprise and announce it himself? I think the shock of his music just randomly hitting and him walking out onto WWE TV for the first time in over 4 years would have been more powerful than a WWE.com article and a video package. They would still have a month to promote the PPV. |
|
Deleted
Joined on: May 4, 2024 10:01:17 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2013 1:06:20 GMT -5
they do a mix of both. stephanie returning, jericho at rumble, shield debuting, big e debuting
all moments in the past 6 months that were surprising.
but i do agree that i prefer the surprise element way better
|
|
|
|
Post by ztj_wwf on Jun 17, 2013 1:12:40 GMT -5
They do it because surprise returns can't get higher ratings/buys. If they announce it, people will know to watch the show.
|
|
|
|
Post by Lorenzo Alcazar on Jun 17, 2013 1:22:38 GMT -5
They do it because surprise returns can't get higher ratings/buys. If they announce it, people will know to watch the show. I know they need to advertise stuff for PPV's, that's not an issue with me....but for RAW, there should be more surprises. I get what you're saying about ratings and more people will watch if they announce ahead of time that Undertaker will be there or Triple H will be wrestling. BUT, if you do a few surprises that people really like, that could make people think "hey, I better watch tonight because ANYTHING can happen!". So it can work both ways...more people could watch if you announce it ahead of time, but also more people could watch if they think your show is unpredictable and must see and they don't want to miss a really good surprise. I watch every RAW no matter what, and the only PPV of the year I order is Wrestlemania, and unless Undertaker ever wrestles on another PPV again the only PPV I will ever order will continue to be Wrestlemania until he retires...so announcing stuff ahead of time for RAW is just WWE ruining RAW for me because I'm going to watch RAW anyway no matter what. |
|
PenguinDeluxe
Main Eventer
20 Refs and Counting
Joined on: Dec 19, 2006 21:22:54 GMT -5
Posts: 4,932
|
Post by PenguinDeluxe on Jun 17, 2013 1:31:53 GMT -5
They do it because surprise returns can't get higher ratings/buys. If they announce it, people will know to watch the show. I know they need to advertise stuff for PPV's, that's not an issue with me....but for RAW, there should be more surprises. I get what you're saying about ratings and more people will watch if they announce ahead of time that Undertaker will be there or Triple H will be wrestling. BUT, if you do a few surprises that people really like, that could make people think "hey, I better watch tonight because ANYTHING can happen!". So it can work both ways...more people could watch if you announce it ahead of time, but also more people could watch if they think your show is unpredictable and must see and they don't want to miss a really good surprise. I watch every RAW no matter what, and the only PPV of the year I order is Wrestlemania, and unless Undertaker ever wrestles on another PPV again the only PPV I will ever order will continue to be Wrestlemania until he retires...so announcing stuff ahead of time for RAW is just WWE ruining RAW for me because I'm going to watch RAW anyway no matter what. They do that, but if they do it constantly, it creates an overload and stops being surprising. They don't care about viewers like you who will tune in no matter what. They want those who need incentive to tune in and will raise their ratings, and these various video packages and ads help do that. |
|
|
|
Post by MrPerfect25 on Jun 17, 2013 6:52:13 GMT -5
Punk and RVD's return should have been surprises. Those are the best moments, the biggest pops.
We used to get those as rewards. Now they're announced weeks in advance as incentives to spend money. Def a summary of the state of the WWE these days.
|
|
|
|
Post by Yeezy's Mullet: Team X Blades on Jun 17, 2013 7:51:12 GMT -5
They honestly do a pretty good mixture of both. Not every return needs to be a surprise. Like Triple H returning at MSG. Everyone knew well in advance, but the moment is still unforgettable. Punk coming back AND absolutely killing it with Jericho was still a great way to return.
|
|
|
|
Post by Next Man’s Knowing Rock on Jun 17, 2013 9:14:41 GMT -5
They do that, but if they do it constantly, it creates an overload and stops being surprising. They don't care about viewers like you who will tune in no matter what. They want those who need incentive to tune in and will raise their ratings, and these various video packages and ads help do that. Yup. |
|
|
|
Post by punksnotdead on Jun 17, 2013 9:19:45 GMT -5
I think WWE lacks a considerable amount of shock value. I think a big portion of that falls on me as a fan though. When you've been watching for 20 years, you've seen damn near everything there is to see, or some variation of it. The Shield was probably the most excited/surprised I've been watching WWE in the past... forever it feels like. We went through a period of about 5 years where WWE and WCW were trying to out shock value you on a weekly basis. We had to come down from that ride and WWE hasn't ever really tried to get back to that place. Something like Bobby Roode or Samoa Joe debuting on WWE out of the blue would bring that kind of shock value. They could have done it with RVD to some degree as well, so I'm with you in regards to him.
WWE is entirely ratings and PPV buys driven though. I'm of the thought process that if you don't advertise it, you'll see an increase in ratings the week after the return. Worse than shock value, WWE isn't very good at creating a buzz imo. The Rock returning and CM Punk's Vegas promo were about the only two times in the last several years where I can think of WWE penetrating pop culture. It also has to do with the internet. Too much is out there and too much gets ruined for us anymore. I can imagine that if you never get online then WWE is probably a little more "shocking" to you at times. They are largely repetitive though. In matches, and with how they do things. Look at the finish of the main event match last night if you need a recent example. WWE just doesn't try to outdo themselves anymore and they'd rather play it safe, quite frankly because they don't have to take any risks with no real competition.
|
|
|
|
Post by Next Man’s Knowing Rock on Jun 17, 2013 9:43:33 GMT -5
I think WWE lacks a considerable amount of shock value. I think a big portion of that falls on me as a fan though. When you've been watching for 20 years, you've seen damn near everything there is to see, or some variation of it. The Shield was probably the most excited/surprised I've been watching WWE in the past... forever it feels like. We went through a period of about 5 years where WWE and WCW were trying to out shock value you on a weekly basis. We had to come down from that ride and WWE hasn't ever really tried to get back to that place. Something like Bobby Roode or Samoa Joe debuting on WWE out of the blue would bring that kind of shock value. They could have done it with RVD to some degree as well, so I'm with you in regards to him. WWE is entirely ratings and PPV buys driven though. I'm of the thought process that if you don't advertise it, you'll see an increase in ratings the week after the return. Worse than shock value, WWE isn't very good at creating a buzz imo. The Rock returning and CM Punk's Vegas promo were about the only two times in the last several years where I can think of WWE penetrating pop culture. It also has to do with the internet. Too much is out there and too much gets ruined for us anymore. I can imagine that if you never get online then WWE is probably a little more "shocking" to you at times. They are largely repetitive though. In matches, and with how they do things. Look at the finish of the main event match last night if you need a recent example. WWE just doesn't try to outdo themselves anymore and they'd rather play it safe, quite frankly because they don't have to take any risks with no real competition. The thing is, wrestling is basically trash TV with two kinds of people that have ever watched it: 1. People who got into it when it was a fad and then stopped watching when something else came along. 2. Those of us who got into it during one of the fads but stuck around because, for whatever reason, we love watching men in their underwear pull silly faces and pretend to fight. And after a while, we're very hard to please. We've seen everything so many times, we've seen the patterns that feuds take, etc etc. And it's a bitter fan culture. So many people watch WWE just to cry and bitch about it, and only like things that are anti-WWE or anti-establishment (cheering heels, wanting everyone to turn heel, loving when guys run down the company etc). WWE can't just promote anti-WWE stuff, and when it does, it doesn't tend to work. The CM Punk summer 2011... To us on the Internet, it was great. But to the average person who doesn't give two craps about Colt Cabana and who is on the WWE promotional cups, it meant nothing. A few sports/magazine writers who are longterm pro wrestling fans got it covered in their publications, but it did nothing for business or to raise WWE's profile. WWE sent Punk on mainstream appearances and such, and it did nothing except have baseball commentators laughing at him and implying that if a guy who looks like that is the wrestling champion now, wrestling is in trouble. Punk criticising WWE appealed to us, but turned off the mainstream audience. As babyface champion, Punk was actually losing viewers for his segments. WWE did a storyline to please us, thinking it would cause a new boom, and all it did was alienate normal people. They really blew The Rock's return by failing to showcase any new stars. He had to wrestle who he had to wrestle of course, and those decisions were largely right, but they did nothing to highlight anyone new on the cards he was on. Nothing that would make a normal person say "I like this guy, I'm gonna tune in to see him even after Rock leaves." The business model keeps WWE highly profitable, but they're going to be in a lot of trouble when Cena retires, and they're still struggling to build anything for that eventuality. Even The Shield just do the same thing every week now -- sure, they're really good matches, but if you're watching wrestling to be entertained and surprised, you need a little more than the same thing every week from them. |
|
WWE4Life!
Superstar
Joined on: Jan 14, 2003 9:57:51 GMT -5
Posts: 600
|
Post by WWE4Life! on Jun 17, 2013 11:52:15 GMT -5
I was surprised last night when they showed the video for his return. I had no idea it was coming and now I am looking forward to MITB more because I'll get to see RVD return. Brock Lesnar's return is a good example of why they don't do surprises as much anymore. The internet finds out about it and then everyone knows. I thought it was a good job on WWE's part to make the announcement last night.
|
|
Deleted
Joined on: May 4, 2024 10:01:18 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2013 13:06:56 GMT -5
Yes they could do it worse, they could run a magazine cover story and interview with the returning superstar while the video packages are still airing
|
|
Barney Stinson
Superstar
Joined on: Feb 5, 2011 18:42:24 GMT -5
Posts: 979
|
Post by Barney Stinson on Jun 17, 2013 13:31:13 GMT -5
I get what you are saying completely, but the video package last night shocked me, so, while it wasn't his physical presence, RVD's return still shocked me. Also WWE is able to pull off the surprise return every once and a while, I don't think anyone called Chris Jericho returning as #2 in the Royal Rumble this year. That was a shocking moment and return.
|
|
|
|
Post by Lorenzo Alcazar on Jun 17, 2013 13:32:12 GMT -5
Yes they could do it worse, they could run a magazine cover story and interview with the returning superstar while the video packages are still airing When Chris Jericho came back in 2007, WWE Magazine had him on the cover and a huge interview about his return which I got in the mail 3 weeks before his actual return on RAW. I mean, the break the code videos had been playing for weeks and weeks and weeks so there was no surprise left anyway, but a lot of times even NOW I'll get a WWE Magazine in the mail and Triple H or Undertaker will be on the cover with some story about their return a couple of weeks before it happens. This is usually only a problem around Wrestlemania when guys start coming back. |
|
Deleted
Joined on: May 4, 2024 10:01:18 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2013 13:49:33 GMT -5
To me, the last surprise debut was The Shield. Look how impactful that was. It was great.
|
|
MikeMillenium
Main Eventer
I LOVE THE WWE AND EVERYTHING ABOUT IT
Joined on: Jul 21, 2010 13:45:54 GMT -5
Posts: 1,622
|
Post by MikeMillenium on Jun 17, 2013 13:51:18 GMT -5
When we stop taking things for face value and believing in the kayfabe, of course wrestling becomes very predictable.
|
|
|
|
Post by A Flair for the Gold on Jun 17, 2013 14:19:52 GMT -5
i don't know if you guys remember, but do you remember the first time a goldberg vignete played, at a PPV none the less? it was to hype his coming to the WWE. next night on RAW, rock was cutting a promo, cutting him down, and out came goldberg to spear rock. only reason i mention this, is RAW IS in michigan tonight, and RVD IS from michigan. so, don't take my word for it, but i can see RVD appearing tonight to hype his return. after all, the go home RAW and the first RAW after the PPV's are the ones that getbetter than good ratings.
|
|
gravedigger3
Main Eventer
Empire Wrestling Federation
Joined on: Apr 7, 2006 21:17:04 GMT -5
Posts: 3,434
|
Post by gravedigger3 on Jun 17, 2013 14:30:00 GMT -5
I still hate how they did Jeff Hardys return to the WWE it would of been a better surprise I he showed up at Raw and we didn't know about beforehand thanks to wwe.com
|
|
