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Post by Kliquid on Aug 28, 2013 11:11:45 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but the idea that government regulation is the only thing that stands in the way of fixing homelessness is utterly ridiculous to the point of being laughable. The problem of homelessness is far more deeply rooted than that. How do you "fix" someone who has no interest in working? You can provide all the job training in the world, but they're not interested in taking any of it. You can give them a job that fits their skills. They're not interested in showing up. You can give them a place to live, but they're not interested in maintaining it. As TRW pointed out there is a certain segment of the population who is simply not interested in conforming to social norms. Less government regulation isn't going to fix that. You cannot "solve" homelessness other than complete, by-the-books communism. That entire idea is a myth. What you can do, however, is provide the maximum opportunity for employment for those who DO want to work.
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mrassbillygunn
Main Eventer
WF 10+ Year Member
Joined on: Jul 23, 2011 19:35:48 GMT -5
Posts: 4,266
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Post by mrassbillygunn on Aug 28, 2013 11:25:13 GMT -5
So much for freedom. Being homeless is what freedom is all about, being able to bum or tramp around being free. Dont understand why that has to be illgeal and dont agree with it either.
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Aug 28, 2013 12:52:05 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but the idea that government regulation is the only thing that stands in the way of fixing homelessness is utterly ridiculous to the point of being laughable. The problem of homelessness is far more deeply rooted than that. How do you "fix" someone who has no interest in working? You can provide all the job training in the world, but they're not interested in taking any of it. You can give them a job that fits their skills. They're not interested in showing up. You can give them a place to live, but they're not interested in maintaining it. As TRW pointed out there is a certain segment of the population who is simply not interested in conforming to social norms. Less government regulation isn't going to fix that. You cannot "solve" homelessness other than complete, by-the-books communism. That entire idea is a myth. What you can do, however, is provide the maximum opportunity for employment for those who DO want to work. And what of those who don't want to work? Let them starve? I know we agree that we must take care of those who aren't physically/mentally able to work. What of those who don't want to?
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Post by Kliquid on Aug 28, 2013 13:13:40 GMT -5
You cannot "solve" homelessness other than complete, by-the-books communism. That entire idea is a myth. What you can do, however, is provide the maximum opportunity for employment for those who DO want to work. And what of those who don't want to work? Let them starve? I know we agree that we must take care of those who aren't physically/mentally able to work. What of those who don't want to? Where you and I seem to disagree is on who is obligated to help and whether or not it is okay to use physical force to "help" those people
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Aug 28, 2013 13:25:47 GMT -5
No, I'm just asking how you propose to "help" those people who don't want to work. They're physically and mentally capable of working. They choose not to. Maybe they're just plain lazy. Maybe they are rebels who feel the need to rebel against the societal norm of working for a living. Who takes care of those people? Just let the private sector figure it out?
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Post by Kliquid on Aug 28, 2013 13:51:00 GMT -5
I propose that people are allowed to voluntarily help those who don't want to work. If no one wants to help them, and they don't want to help themselves, then yes, "let them starve."
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Post by T R W on Aug 28, 2013 14:06:01 GMT -5
There are really only two option when it really comes down to it. But nobody wants to say/do it. Either force them to work/live in a manner that fits in to society (i.e. shelter, housing, jail) or just leave them to their own devices (i.e. starve, live on streets).
The majority of the homeless problem currently is not people who had a run of bad luck, or are just searching for any job or food. Most are mentally/physically incapable of working or providing for themselves, or simply unwilling to do so for whatever reason (usually drugs).
There is really no solution that I or anyone I know has thought of that doesn't get our hands extremely dirty or tread into moral waters that most people prefer to avoid.
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Post by Kliquid on Aug 28, 2013 14:29:07 GMT -5
Those who feel a moral obligation to help those less fortunate than themselves, should do so.
And I do, for example.
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Aug 28, 2013 16:55:14 GMT -5
I hate to think of anything as a simple dichotomy (either we make them work or we let them starve), but I confess I don't know of any middle ground. One thing is for certain, the homeless/poverty problem isn't anything new. It's been around as long as there's been society and will likely be around long after we're gone. The fact is the line between those who can't work and those who won't work is often very blurred and you can spend a lot of time, money and effort trying to help people who really have no interest.
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Post by Kliquid on Aug 28, 2013 19:42:30 GMT -5
I would never advocate forcing someone to work. But if we open up our business climate and reduce (or even remove) minimum wage requirements, MORE people will be able to work.
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Aug 28, 2013 19:53:10 GMT -5
But the bulk of the problem isn't that people are looking for jobs and can't find them, it's that people can't/won't work. Those who are on the street because they cannot find any work anywhere are a small minority.
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Post by Kliquid on Aug 29, 2013 0:40:52 GMT -5
But the bulk of the problem isn't that people are looking for jobs and can't find them, it's that people can't/won't work. Those who are on the street because they cannot find any work anywhere are a small minority. And? We can't be obligated to help people who don't want to help themselves.
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Aug 29, 2013 6:24:41 GMT -5
But the bulk of the problem isn't that people are looking for jobs and can't find them, it's that people can't/won't work. Those who are on the street because they cannot find any work anywhere are a small minority. And? We can't be obligated to help people who don't want to help themselves. A lot of people would disagree with you.
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Post by Kliquid on Aug 29, 2013 10:33:22 GMT -5
And? We can't be obligated to help people who don't want to help themselves. A lot of people would disagree with you. Obviously. The difference, though, is that they're willing to use violence on free people in order to take things from them and give to others; whereas I am not.
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