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Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Jan 13, 2014 0:13:50 GMT -5
The question explains itself.
Which of Terry Bollea's mentors is most responsible for his success?
Hulk Hogan has arguably had more impact on Professional Wrestling's image I'n the United States than anyone excluding the founding fathers of the NWA, & The inventors of Television. I detest how he has glamorized pandering to mediocrity & wish to find out who's truly responsible.
We all know his first formal teacher is Hiro Matsuda, but nothing the 9 time WrestleMania headliner would become known for was taught to him by this Japanese shooter who has been robbed of his legacy as a wrestler because he damaged the Florida guitarist's leg, but failed to break his spirit.
To keep this short, Verne Gagne is the person I hold responsible. Vince McMahon merely stole Hogan & built off of his persona that Verne groomed him into during his AWA tenure.
Discuss.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2014 0:52:12 GMT -5
I think Gagne and Vince are both his greatest mentors. I think Vince Sr. should also be considered.
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Post by Emerald Enthusiast on Jan 13, 2014 2:01:51 GMT -5
The question explains itself. Which of Terry Bollea's mentors is most responsible for his success? To keep this short, Verne Gagne is the person I hold responsible. Vince McMahon merely stole Hogan & built off of his persona that Verne groomed him into during his AWA tenure. Discuss. McMahon, without a doubt. You could see Hogan's connection with the crowds and energy in Japan and the NWA, but he was like unmolded clay. When he wrestled Bockwinkle in '83, he stood around for most of the match and even hit his legdrop incorrectly. While Hogan would have still made money in pro wrestling, his awkwardness would have been a big hindrance when it came to old school promoters making him the company centerpiece. Without Vince, I'm guessing Hogan probably would have gone back to Japan for most of his career. Vince wasn't afraid to test the entertainment side of pro wrestling. He gave Hogan the trademark colors, a definitive look, catch-phrases, and a legendary entrance. He also taught Hogan to hide his lack of ability by storytelling. It was Vince who came up with the idea of Hulk rarely getting knocked to his back, but instead crumpling to one knee. It was Vince who came up with the usual combo of moves at the end of the match to let the crowd know the legdrop was coming. It was Vince who made Hogan (literally and figuratively) a cartoon hero, not just the representation of an athlete. He did much the same for Diesel and Warrior. |
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Dr. Mantis Toboggan MD
Main Eventer
I need a monster condom for my magnum sized dong.
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Post by Dr. Mantis Toboggan MD on Jan 13, 2014 2:12:04 GMT -5
If we are going off promoter, I say McMahon. He had more talent for Hogan and had that vision to create that Empire off of Hogan.
If we are talking overall, Andre the Giant. I credit Rocky III for making Hogan and without it Hogan would have floundered the rest of his career. And if we do a little research, the Rocky series is based off the life of Chuck Wepner, no matter how much Stallone tries to deny it. In 1976, Andre the Giant fought Chuck Wepner, which inspired Rocky vs Thunderlips. In 1987, Andre turned heel for (I believe) the first time in his career, which sparked a lot of publicity at the time. Later that year Andre lost by pinfall for the first time in the WWE when he lost to Hogan at WM III.
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Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Jan 13, 2014 3:38:39 GMT -5
This is incorrect. Verne had him doing all of this back in the AWA before the ink on the pink slip Vince Sr. handed Hogan was even dry. The whole reason he did Rocky III is because the WWWF fired him & he was close to giving up on wrestling all together.
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Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Jan 13, 2014 3:41:01 GMT -5
I think Gagne and Vince are both his greatest mentors. I think Vince Sr. should also be considered. I was going to put a poll featuring both McMahons, but then I added the Briscoes, Pat Patterson, Superstar Billy Graham, Freddie Blassie & the whole thing just got out of hand. |
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Post by mikey1974 on Jan 13, 2014 4:44:16 GMT -5
I'm honestly going to say all three,plus a FOURTH guy, made Hogan:
Matsuda - trained him,so the foundation is there,especially when it comes to his time in Japan,cause he first became a star over there. and if he hadn't been able to survuve and thrive in Japan,he never would've got his opportunity here.cause Japanese wrestling is brutal,and a shoot half the time.
Classy Freddy Blassie - showed Hogan how to be an unstoppable monster. when he was being given finishes,some of which called for him to lose,Blassie told him to ignore what the promoters said,and legit beat the hell out of the guy he was facing,to make himself look strong.many a "rising star" who promoters whought was going to be big in the future was squashed by Hogan,killing their momentum but putting hogan over more and more every time.
Verne Gagne - realized the potential for hogan being one of the industry's biggest stars, and pushed him as such. the genesis of Hulkamania was also born with Verne, with T-Shirts,headbands,and coming to the ring to his own theme music,plus the big boot- legdrop finisher originated in the AWA. Verne created Hulk - A - Mania before it was HULKAMANIA.
Vince McMahon - took what Verne created,and pushed it to a new level. had the vision to take the WWF and Hulkamania national,something no other promoter did. also put the merchandising machine behind Hogan,making him the biggest star in the world.
...so,in my opinion,they ALL made hulk hogan! cause if you take even one of these elements away,then you don't get the Hulk Hogan and Hulkamania we ended up with.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2014 6:30:07 GMT -5
Vince McMahon Jr for me. He seen the potential in Hogan, If Gagne knew what he had with Hogan he wouldn't have left for Vinnie Jr.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2014 12:17:40 GMT -5
It's really a combination of all three. McMahon couldn't have possibly done it without the other 2, but IMO his input was the greatest of all three.
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Post by Emerald Enthusiast on Jan 13, 2014 12:32:18 GMT -5
This is incorrect. Verne had him doing all of this back in the AWA before the ink on the pink slip Vince Sr. handed Hogan was even dry. The whole reason he did Rocky III is because the WWWF fired him & he was close to giving up on wrestling all together. That quote came directly from Hogan. He said that his style was directly attributable to Vince, who said that he (Hogan) wouldn't be a draw if he seemed vulnerable too often. |
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Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Jan 13, 2014 20:36:39 GMT -5
This is incorrect. Verne had him doing all of this back in the AWA before the ink on the pink slip Vince Sr. handed Hogan was even dry. The whole reason he did Rocky III is because the WWWF fired him & he was close to giving up on wrestling all together. That quote came directly from Hogan. He said that his style was directly attributable to Vince, who said that he (Hogan) wouldn't be a draw if he seemed vulnerable too often. Go watch his matches from the AWA in the two years before his falling out after the Bockwinkel feud. He was starting to develop his "indestructible" superman image there. McMahon took it to it's absolute zenith, but he was writing on paper Gagne left out. Do be careful believing what Hogan says. His character may have been a pillar of honesty, but the real man is a far cry from it. |
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Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Jan 13, 2014 21:02:31 GMT -5
I'm honestly going to say all three,plus a FOURTH guy, made Hogan: Matsuda - trained him,so the foundation is there,especially when it comes to his time in Japan,cause he first became a star over there. and if he hadn't been able to survuve and thrive in Japan,he never would've got his opportunity here.cause Japanese wrestling is brutal,and a shoot half the time. Classy Freddy Blassie - showed Hogan how to be an unstoppable monster. when he was being given finishes,some of which called for him to lose,Blassie told him to ignore what the promoters said,and legit beat the hell out of the guy he was facing,to make himself look strong.many a "rising star" who promoters whought was going to be big in the future was squashed by Hogan,killing their momentum but putting hogan over more and more every time. Verne Gagne - realized the potential for hogan being one of the industry's biggest stars, and pushed him as such. the genesis of Hulkamania was also born with Verne, with T-Shirts,headbands,and coming to the ring to his own theme music,plus the big boot- legdrop finisher originated in the AWA. Verne created Hulk - A - Mania before it was HULKAMANIA. Vince McMahon - took what Verne created,and pushed it to a new level. had the vision to take the WWF and Hulkamania national,something no other promoter did. also put the merchandising machine behind Hogan,making him the biggest star in the world. ...so,in my opinion,they ALL made hulk hogan! cause if you take even one of these elements away,then you don't get the Hulk Hogan and Hulkamania we ended up with. Blassie told Hogan to screw over talent? Well... Not only do I officially stand corrected, but have also lost all respect for Freddie Blassie... |
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Post by mikey1974 on Jan 14, 2014 4:37:22 GMT -5
I'm honestly going to say all three,plus a FOURTH guy, made Hogan: Matsuda - trained him,so the foundation is there,especially when it comes to his time in Japan,cause he first became a star over there. and if he hadn't been able to survuve and thrive in Japan,he never would've got his opportunity here.cause Japanese wrestling is brutal,and a shoot half the time. Classy Freddy Blassie - showed Hogan how to be an unstoppable monster. when he was being given finishes,some of which called for him to lose,Blassie told him to ignore what the promoters said,and legit beat the hell out of the guy he was facing,to make himself look strong.many a "rising star" who promoters whought was going to be big in the future was squashed by Hogan,killing their momentum but putting hogan over more and more every time. Verne Gagne - realized the potential for hogan being one of the industry's biggest stars, and pushed him as such. the genesis of Hulkamania was also born with Verne, with T-Shirts,headbands,and coming to the ring to his own theme music,plus the big boot- legdrop finisher originated in the AWA. Verne created Hulk - A - Mania before it was HULKAMANIA. Vince McMahon - took what Verne created,and pushed it to a new level. had the vision to take the WWF and Hulkamania national,something no other promoter did. also put the merchandising machine behind Hogan,making him the biggest star in the world. ...so,in my opinion,they ALL made hulk hogan! cause if you take even one of these elements away,then you don't get the Hulk Hogan and Hulkamania we ended up with. Blassie told Hogan to screw over talent? Well... Not only do I officially stand corrected, but have also lost all respect for Freddie Blassie... yeah,Hogan talked about it in his book. when Blassie became his manager during his first WWF stint, Blassie told him to never sell for anyone,and a couple of times he was booked to lose or to draw with some guys,and he said Blassie told him "Screw that! Beat the hell out of him and win!" or something to that effect. the specific case I remember was over in Japan,where Hogan was supposed to wrestle this former Japanese Olympic athlete that New Japan had big hopes for,and wanted him to rise to the top. hogan was booked to lose to him after like a 20 minute match. Blassie told Hogan to forget it,and just beat the hell out of him and pin him quick. Hogan said he went out,hit the guy in the face as hard as he could,and he never really recovered after that,and Hogan pinned him in under 3 minutes. and it became this HUGE story over there,how he beat the guy who was going right to the top. |
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Post by Emerald Enthusiast on Jan 14, 2014 9:28:16 GMT -5
That quote came directly from Hogan. He said that his style was directly attributable to Vince, who said that he (Hogan) wouldn't be a draw if he seemed vulnerable too often.
He was starting to develop his "indestructible" superman image there. McMahon took it to it's absolute zenith, but he was writing on paper Gagne left out. Do be careful believing what Hogan says. His character may have been a pillar of honesty, but the real man is a far cry from it. I've seen them, as well as his early heel run in the WWF. He was completely lost back then. He pretty much just stood there, let his opponent come to him, and work around him being clueless. While he still sucked in the ring in '84, there was clearly a refined concept on how he should act in and out of the ring. Moreover, there were definite avenues that Vince set up to market Hulk and the company as living animation, rather than a spectacle for cigar-smoking roughnecks. |
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Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Jan 14, 2014 10:45:37 GMT -5
Go watch his matches from the AWA in the two years before his falling out after the Bockwinkel feud.
He was starting to develop his "indestructible" superman image there. McMahon took it to it's absolute zenith, but he was writing on paper Gagne left out. Do be careful believing what Hogan says. His character may have been a pillar of honesty, but the real man is a far cry from it. I've seen them, as well as his early heel run in the WWF. He was completely lost back then. He pretty much just stood there, let his opponent come to him, and work around him being clueless. While he still sucked in the ring in '84, there was clearly a refined concept on how he should act in and out of the ring. Moreover, there were definite avenues that Vince set up to market Hulk and the company as living animation, rather than a spectacle for cigar-smoking roughnecks. Go read the quote convo I'm having with Mikey1974. Looks like we're both missing parts to our story. I apologize. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2014 17:46:29 GMT -5
Even when Hulkamania started he wasn't getting that over with the fans, it was his fued with Piper that really put him over because people hated Piper so much. So I would give it to Piper/McMahon.
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Post by Roman Bellic on Jan 14, 2014 19:09:56 GMT -5
his contract
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2014 20:38:14 GMT -5
Terry Bollea Made Hulk Hogan.
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Post by hulkhogancollector on Jan 15, 2014 21:39:01 GMT -5
Hulk Hogan was on Johnny Carson talking about Hulkamania two years before working for Vince Jr
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Post by marino13 on Jan 16, 2014 17:22:58 GMT -5
Well let's be honest here, had Hogan stayed in the AWA he would most likely have had a good couple of years on top with little to no exposure outside of a few magazine covers. By now he would have been a small footnote in the history of wrestling. It was Vince who took Hulk and made him a household name, an icon. With Vince, Hogan was able to run wild. With Vince, Hogan was able to sell out MSG. With Vince, Hogan was able to slam a giant.
So if you want to know whom to blame for us having to put up with Hulk Hogan 30 years later, I'd say the blame lies solely on Vince McMahon.
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