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Post by Nivro™ on Mar 9, 2014 11:30:10 GMT -5
Doesn't Vince always say there is more money in the babyface chasing the title? So doesn't it seem likely that Roddy Piper, the most over heel of his time, should have held the title to get people to pay to see Hogan beat him? I mean I'm asking you but that's mostly just rhetorical because the answer is yes. Otherwise, why would any heel ever win the title at all. Nope. The WWF was a babyface-led territory with long title runs for the top face, unlike the NWA where the heel travelled around making each territory's top face look good. The WWF was all about having a champion people could get behind -- look at the title history. After Hogan's first title win, the next heel champion that got more than a transitional reign was Yokozuna, and possibly the only guy that never won the title that should've is Luger, if McMahon really wanted to create the next Hogan. The Luger push was blown at SummerSlam when they held off the title win for WrestleMania, by which point the fans had lost interest because the WWF wasn't a long-chase territory. Piper, though? No way. WrestleMania and the eighties boom rode a wave of popularity built around Hogan as the champion teaming with a celebrity. Nobody can name a valid one that should've won the title and didn't -- Luger is the closest, and he sucked, so was he really ever a better choice as champ than Yokozuna? Essentially, people use these discussions as "which wrestlers from my childhood/before I was born would I fantasy-book as champion?" And it's based on people not being able to understand that pre-attitude, not everybody got a run with the belt. You couldn't just give Jake Roberts the title from TLC '88 to Elimination Chamber '89 because those shows and those marginal guy title reigns didn't exist at that time the way they have in the modern era.Essentially I agree completely with you but I have laid out a situation where not only Piper but also DiBiase could have both won the world title and essentially wrestling history wouldnt have been changed that much if any at all. Hence why I say those are the only two that truly deserved a title reign. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2014 14:14:02 GMT -5
In 1993.
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Mar 9, 2014 19:08:18 GMT -5
He destroyed Gunn on the mic(as he did to everybody) but he didn't bury him at Summerslam like the OP suggests AF, that's just plain wrong. He lost but was not buried......its not like Rock beat him in 3 minutes and Gunn got no offense in. Yeah I get that, I'm just saying that he got buried on the mic by him every week up until summerslam, which was foreseeable considering mic work was Billy's only real weakness and Rocky's biggest strength. I mean if anything, being in a big match at a big PPV with The Rock should have elevated Billy. It was just handled badly (for Billy) in the buildup. Of course after Summerslam he had that match on Raw for the title with Triple H and then phased back into the tag division while Vinnie took himself a title reign. True I get that but at the time Gunn was rising after going solo so a victory over The Rock at Summerslam really would've elevated his career. Losing wouldn't have damaged The Rock because he already was a big star at the time and he would have been putting over a rising star. Billy Gunn's loss dropped him right back into the NAO's not that I minded because they were my favourite team but looking back on it I feel that he was more than a midcard and tag team wrestler.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2014 3:32:20 GMT -5
Yeah I get that, I'm just saying that he got buried on the mic by him every week up until summerslam, which was foreseeable considering mic work was Billy's only real weakness and Rocky's biggest strength. I mean if anything, being in a big match at a big PPV with The Rock should have elevated Billy. It was just handled badly (for Billy) in the buildup. Of course after Summerslam he had that match on Raw for the title with Triple H and then phased back into the tag division while Vinnie took himself a title reign. True I get that but at the time Gunn was rising after going solo so a victory over The Rock at Summerslam really would've elevated his career. Losing wouldn't have damaged The Rock because he already was a big star at the time and he would have been putting over a rising star. Billy Gunn's loss dropped him right back into the NAO's not that I minded because they were my favourite team but looking back on it I feel that he was more than a midcard and tag team wrestler.
Billy could have survived the loss if Triple H didn't bury him backstage afterwards. He had a big match for the title on raw a couple weeks after Summerslam where the crowd really wanted him to win the strap, after that he sunk back into the NAO. |
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Post by cripplercrossface on Mar 13, 2014 15:08:08 GMT -5
I really thought Billy Gunn after winning the "King of the Ring" would've had at least one WWF title win. Another that could of had a better title run was Kane. Just have Paul Bearer talk for him like Paul Heyman did with Brock Lesnar.
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Jamal
Main Eventer
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Post by Jamal on Mar 13, 2014 17:18:21 GMT -5
Booker T at WM19.
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Post by cordless2016 on Mar 13, 2014 20:39:08 GMT -5
1) Owen Hart - The total package IMO. Great in the ring and on the mic. The only time I thought he could have won the WWE Title was at Survivor Series 1994 but he deserved it. He and Bret put on a feud for the ages and why it was given to Backlund I'll never understand. It was called the "New Generation" era for a reason. Yes Bob was a transitional champ but the story made sense for Owen to win the title given his and Bret's history (and I'm a fan of Bob). Owen should have won the title by cheating at Survivor Series (gets Bret in a submission hold and Neidhart gets their mom to throw in the towl). He acts like he's the best Hart in the family but Diesel overcomes him for the title at the Rumble. Owen goes nuts and him and Bret have a final showdown at WM11.
2) Paul Orndorff - Having gone back and watched footage from his feud against Hogan this guy was primed for the title IMO. A lot of people say Piper should have had the title but I actually prefer Orndorff. The guy had an amazing look and was solid in the ring and he was believable in that he could beat Hogan (cheating of course). Have him beat Hogan for the title by cheating a few months before WM and we get a rematch at WM2 for the title in a cage (I enjoy the cage match they had together). Hogan regains the title and Hulkamania doesn't lose a beat as Hogan holds the title for the next few years before dropping it to Andre before WM4.
3) Lex Luger - Basically takes Yokozuna's spot as the top heel. I thought the "Narcissist" gimmick was great for him and they obviously had big plans for a heel run considering he attacked Bret at the WM9 new conference. Bret goes over Yoko at WM9 and a heel Luger takes the belt at KOTR '94. Luger spends the rest of the year dodging Bret, Taker, Bam Bam, etc... until Bret finally regains the title at WM10. Luger's face run sucked from the beginning IMO but a I think a heel run would have been great.
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Post by MrPerfect25 on Mar 14, 2014 9:18:00 GMT -5
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Mar 14, 2014 9:32:02 GMT -5
First, I'd say Owen Hart. I agree with I read earlier here about him in 1994. After beating Bret at WrestleMania X, winning the King of the Ring and putting on a fantastic Steel Cage match at Summerslam, he should've taken the belt at Survivor Series. Even if he would only get the Bob Backlund three day reign, at least he would've been Champion. Putting the strap on Backlund still makes no sense to me.
Of course the popular answer is Mr. Perfect and I totally agree. I think the biggest issue with him though is the era that he wrestled in. In the early 90s it was a lot of Hulk Hogan to contend with and then he had his back injury. He came back at the end of '92, but the WWE decided to go with Yokozuna around WrestleMania IX.
A few others that I felt had the opportunity would be Razor Ramon sometime in '95, Vader at SummerSlam '96, The British Bulldog and Ted Dibiase.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2014 16:27:26 GMT -5
Lex Luger should have won the title at SummerSlam 93. Vince at that time was so obsessed with finding the next Hogan and I think that put way too much pressure on Lex. I love Nash, but Diesel getting a year long title reign and Luger not getting a single run with the belt is crap.
I really think Vince dropped the ball big time with the New Generation. There was a ton of talent but that era was plagued by Vince trying to find the next Hogan and horrible booking decisions in the main event scene.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2014 6:24:10 GMT -5
1) Owen Hart - The total package IMO. Great in the ring and on the mic. The only time I thought he could have won the WWE Title was at Survivor Series 1994 but he deserved it. He and Bret put on a feud for the ages and why it was given to Backlund I'll never understand. It was called the "New Generation" era for a reason. Yes Bob was a transitional champ but the story made sense for Owen to win the title given his and Bret's history (and I'm a fan of Bob). Owen should have won the title by cheating at Survivor Series (gets Bret in a submission hold and Neidhart gets their mom to throw in the towl). He acts like he's the best Hart in the family but Diesel overcomes him for the title at the Rumble. Owen goes nuts and him and Bret have a final showdown at WM11. 2) Paul Orndorff - Having gone back and watched footage from his feud against Hogan this guy was primed for the title IMO. A lot of people say Piper should have had the title but I actually prefer Orndorff. The guy had an amazing look and was solid in the ring and he was believable in that he could beat Hogan (cheating of course). Have him beat Hogan for the title by cheating a few months before WM and we get a rematch at WM2 for the title in a cage (I enjoy the cage match they had together). Hogan regains the title and Hulkamania doesn't lose a beat as Hogan holds the title for the next few years before dropping it to Andre before WM4. 3) Lex Luger - Basically takes Yokozuna's spot as the top heel. I thought the "Narcissist" gimmick was great for him and they obviously had big plans for a heel run considering he attacked Bret at the WM9 new conference. Bret goes over Yoko at WM9 and a heel Luger takes the belt at KOTR '94. Luger spends the rest of the year dodging Bret, Taker, Bam Bam, etc... until Bret finally regains the title at WM10. Luger's face run sucked from the beginning IMO but a I think a heel run would have been great. Awesome post. I completely agree with the Owen part, maybe Owen could have come out in the rumble illegally and eliminated Bret towards the end after getting spoilt over his loss to Big D. I also always preferred Luger as a heel, and he played the Narcissist gimmick to perfection IMO. With Vince struggling for heels at the time and Yoko being such a mediocre worker he really should have kept Luger as a heel. He already had super over faces in Bret, Undertaker and even Tatanka was EXTREMELY over. He didn't need another top face. Luger taking Yoko's run would have been near-perfect. In hindsight I may have kept the original WM9 ending though, and had Luger take the belt from Hogan instead of Yoko. Bret still becomes KOTR (I really hate to think that we wouldn't get those 3 incredible matches from KOTR that Bret had). Then Bret wins the Rumble (solo) and takes the belt from Luger at Wrestlemania X. |
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Post by JC Motors on Mar 17, 2014 16:38:38 GMT -5
Gene Snitsky
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Post by mikey1974 on Mar 17, 2014 18:01:08 GMT -5
Perfect
Rude
DiBiase
Vader
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2014 1:54:58 GMT -5
Jimmy Snuka
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hbkfan
Superstar
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Post by hbkfan on Mar 21, 2014 11:48:11 GMT -5
Well I have been watching a lot of old PPVs of late; and I started thinking why some of the talent did not hold the WWE/WWF title. In my views they're have been many great performers who could have held the title. For example, Junkyard Dog. He was very talented, and could have made a good champion. Others I would pick: Rowdy Roddy Piper Big John Stud Mr. Perfect Tito Santana Ravishing Rick Rude Bundy Vader Ted Dibiase Jim Duggan Jimmy Snuka British Bulldog Big Bossman Ricky Steamboat - among others from 80's to early 90's. You have to realize that not everyone is title worthy just because they have talent. It's not something that should get passed around to who hasn't held it yet. Jim Duggan, Tito Santana, Big Boss man, King Kong Bundy , and Vader are all guys that don't fit the main event category. And despite how talented Owen was, I think people tend to overrate the guy because of his tragic death. People said that he was in line for a huge push but he was given that stupid blue blazer gimmick. BACK THEN when you were champ, you were the top guy in the company who was representing it. You put asses in seats, sold buttloads of merchandise, drew ratings in, etc. Most of those guys you listed were mid-card players for a reason. Just because you had talent doesn't mean you hold the strap. Just doesn't work like that. And yet we do have those kind of champions nowadays: Swagger Christian Miz Del Rio Ziggler All the above guys are good but not WHC good; maybe intercontinental at most. And I agree with the Owen part. |
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hbkowns
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Post by hbkowns on Mar 21, 2014 13:59:17 GMT -5
You have to realize that not everyone is title worthy just because they have talent. It's not something that should get passed around to who hasn't held it yet. Jim Duggan, Tito Santana, Big Boss man, King Kong Bundy , and Vader are all guys that don't fit the main event category. And despite how talented Owen was, I think people tend to overrate the guy because of his tragic death. People said that he was in line for a huge push but he was given that stupid blue blazer gimmick. BACK THEN when you were champ, you were the top guy in the company who was representing it. You put asses in seats, sold buttloads of merchandise, drew ratings in, etc. Most of those guys you listed were mid-card players for a reason. Just because you had talent doesn't mean you hold the strap. Just doesn't work like that. And yet we do have those kind of champions nowadays: Swagger Christian Miz Del Rio Ziggler All the above guys are good but not WHC good; maybe intercontinental at most. And I agree with the Owen part. Only 2 of the guys you named (Miz and Del Rio) held the wwe championship. Which is the major title compares to the WHT. look where Miz and Del Rio are now. They were tested, failed, and now doing close to doing nothing. |
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