Alpha Q Up
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Post by Alpha Q Up on Mar 21, 2014 22:33:37 GMT -5
Excluding the year 2000 (which was arguably the greatest year in the WWE, PPV wise).
1998 (WM 14) to WM 17 was what most people would call the beginning and end of the Attitude Era. The Transitional Era started after WM 17, which could also be called the Invasion/Influx of Talent era, ended in 2002 after WM 18 and the RAW/Smackdown Brand Split (along with the WWF being changed to the WWE due to law suits).
The Ruthless Aggression Era started after the brand split in 2002, which ended up showcasing some of the greatest wrestling on free television EVER (On Smackdown, not RAW). Smackdown WAS the A show at this time, and stayed the A show until 2005. RAW was actually pretty meh wrestling wise (quick 5-8 minute matches), but was at it's peak storyline/pay-per-view wise. Benoit was one of the top guys during this time, which is probably why the WWE fail to acknowledge it as much as others.
It is clearly the most stacked era roster wise top to bottom, with veterans from the attitude era, guys from WCW/ECW making their names, and the new influx of talent from OVW (Lesnar, Cena, Orton, Batista).
One thing I want to ask though, is when do you guys think the Ruthless Aggression Era officially ended? In late 2005 with Cena's rise to fame, or in mid 2007 after the Benoit incident? And what are your guys thoughts on this time in the WWE?
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Post by King Richius on Mar 21, 2014 22:46:37 GMT -5
IMHO, the Ruthless Aggression era had some of the best technical wrestling ever in WWE. From top to bottom everyone was putting on great matches. The promos and backstage stuff wasn't as good as the Attitude Era though. I prefer in-ring performances so RA may be my favorite WWE era. As for when it ended, I think it is sometime between the Benoit incident, Eddie's death, and the departures of Brock and Angle.
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Post by BrIaNMeRcY on Mar 21, 2014 22:47:12 GMT -5
One thing the Ruthless Aggression Era has over the Attitude Era is work rate. Let's be real here, we had so many talented workers during the Attitude Era but many weren't able to perform and have solid, stellar matches on free television. If you wanted to see good, solid work, you had to order the PPV's. In the RA Era, you saw many good matches on free TV.
Every era has their own pros and cons. I'm choosing to allow others to fill the void my post forgot to mention.
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Alpha Q Up
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Post by Alpha Q Up on Mar 21, 2014 23:07:49 GMT -5
IMHO, the Ruthless Aggression era had some of the best technical wrestling ever in WWE. From top to bottom everyone was putting on great matches. The promos and backstage stuff wasn't as good as the Attitude Era though. I prefer in-ring performances so RA may be my favorite WWE era. As for when it ended, I think it is sometime between the Benoit incident, Eddie's death, and the departures of Brock and Angle. I think half of 2006 can still be considered part of the Ruthless Aggression Era. You had the Rated R Superstar and the live sex segment, Cena/HHH still having TV-14 type promos, divas sexuality being pushed and etc. One thing the Ruthless Aggression Era has over the Attitude Era is work rate. Let's be real here, we had so many talented workers during the Attitude Era but many weren't able to perform and have solid, stellar matches on free television. If you wanted to see good, solid work, you had to order the PPV's. In the RA Era, you saw many good matches on free TV. Every era has their own pros and cons. I'm choosing to allow others to fill the void my post forgot to mention. Yeah. I honestly wouldn't even count 2000 as part of the OFFICIAL attitude era, because... 1. Russo had left, and most of his crazy angles had disappeared. 2. Along with him leaving, the cheap shocker promos and segments started to disappear, and in-ring wrestling became more important (this also had to do with Angle/Jericho/Benoit/Guerrero/Malenko/Hardy Boyz/Edge & Christian debuting/cementing themselves as top in-ring workers). 3. It had a entirely different feel compared to 97-99, the production was better, it was less shock/crash and burn oriented (probably because they were destroying WCW in the ratings department at this time, so they didn't need to keep the attention of viewers from changing the channel) From 2000 on, in-ring work became a staple of the organization. Smackdown took that ball and ran with it beginning in the Spring of 2002 after the brand split. Interestingly enough, in early 2002 the WWE were still calling their product ''Attitude''. Even though most people believed it officially ended when WCW was bought by the WWE in early 2001/after WM 17 and the beginning of the Invasion. The transitional period (Spring 2001/Invasion Era-Spring 2002/Ruthless Aggression Era) was really a huge change for the WWE. Within just a few weeks (May 2002/June 2002) - The WWF/WWE name change; - The brand-split; - New WWE Undisputed Championship design; - European, Hardcore and IC title unified; - New set and feel to Raw; - Rock takes a short hiatus; - Austin takes a back-seat then walks out; - Hogan returns to Hulkamania; - Established tag-teams like the Dudleys and APA broken up; - New workers like Lesnar, Orton and Cena surface; - WCW/ECW workers like Booker and RVD fully integrated as WWE guys. I can't think of any period of a few weeks that had so much change. March 2002 still felt like Attitude. June 2002 may as well have been years removed. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2014 23:08:25 GMT -5
Ruthless for me aswell:
Returns of,
Shawn Michaels
Hulk Hogan
Kevin Nash
Scott Hall
Ric Flair
Mr. Perfect
Goldust
Scott Steiner
Debuts of,
Brock lesnar
Goldberg
Booker T
Rvd
Ultimo Dragon
Tajiri
Ryhno
Rey Mysterio
DDP
Batista
Orton
WGTT
Current main eventers,
The Rock
Stone Cold
UndertKer
Kurt Angle
Benoit
Jericho
Kane
Triple H
My second favorite era was the new generation. I personally hated the attitude era. It was a depressing time to be a WWF fan imo. Austin saved mid 98 to late 99 imo. Shawn MIchaels, Bret, Diesel, and Razor were gone. The storylines were ultra violent and sloppy. Owen's death is a sore spot for me. TRIPLE H was now in Shawn's spot. I didnt feel that Rock, Hhh, and Mankind could fill the shoes of Shawn or Bret at the time. Thinking back, early 98 to late 99 Was the only era that I prefered WCW over WWE, I was heavily invested in NWO red vs white...and Goldberg. To this day I still dont see the high praises that the attitude era gets. I think the attitude should be credited to shawn michaels, but everyone praises austin.
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Dr. Mantis Toboggan MD
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Post by Dr. Mantis Toboggan MD on Mar 21, 2014 23:10:57 GMT -5
Yeah, I always like the Ruthless Aggression Era more.
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Post by BrIaNMeRcY on Mar 21, 2014 23:27:28 GMT -5
One the WWE got better workers who were later given time on free television and on PPV, the work rate in the WWE improved drastically. If you compare 1997 to 2002, the differences are night and day. So many things changed during that five year span. Once the WWF was running hot, everything was firing at all cylinders. Once 2000 rolled around, things began to cool down while being hot. Some may disagree but I will say the WWF became cold in late-2001. Right after the Invasion/Survivor Series.
From Survivor Series 2001 to SummerSlam 2002, the WWE was in a big mess. Merely because it was a transition period and the slow rise of the OVW Four (Brock Lesnar, Randy Orton, Batista, & John Cena). The WWE began allowing guys to work longer matches on free TV and helping build better feuds and storylines. Case in point, the work rate is better from 2002-2014 moreso than 1997-2001.
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Post by Chip on Mar 21, 2014 23:28:05 GMT -5
RA lasted from 2003 - December 31 2009
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Jamal
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Post by Jamal on Mar 21, 2014 23:30:54 GMT -5
I've been saying this for years. I thought I was the only one on this board who felt this way.
Angle, Prime Lesnar, Eddie, Hollywood Rock,, Evolution, Chris ?, entertaining Cena and on and on.
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Post by Next Man’s Yeeter on Mar 21, 2014 23:37:39 GMT -5
I'm curious about the ages of people who preferred the Ruthless Aggression era. I'm guessing that for the most part, they were too young to have been watching through the terrible New Generation era and then the excitement of the Attitude Era that came out of that. A lot of the Attitude stuff doesn't hold up now, but at the time, it was incredible. Every week you had to tune in to see what happened next with Austin and McMahon, or DX and the Nation, or Undertaker and Kane etc.
The Ruthless Aggression era was full of people bitching online just like the kids on here do now. The Attitude era didn't have that as much -- this is largely because there were far fewer people online, but also because it was just an exciting time to be a fan. Certainly far more exciting than Chavo Guerrero being in the main events. In the attitude era, people weren't thinking "I know how to book wrestling better than WWE, WWE SUX" and crying all the time, they were just following the stories. This was no longer the case by the time the brand split happened. Does a Wfigs thread from Unforgiven 2002 still exist, out of interest?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2014 23:56:02 GMT -5
attitude era for sure. when batista john cena started being pushed as top talent is when i instantly got bored and stopped watching wrestling.
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Alpha Q Up
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Post by Alpha Q Up on Mar 21, 2014 23:57:47 GMT -5
One the WWE got better workers who were later given time on free television and on PPV, the work rate in the WWE improved drastically. If you compare 1997 to 2002, the differences are night and day. So many things changed during that five year span. Once the WWF was running hot, everything was firing at all cylinders. Once 2000 rolled around, things began to cool down while being hot. Some may disagree but I will say the WWF became cold in late-2001. Right after the Invasion/Survivor Series. From Survivor Series 2001 to SummerSlam 2002, the WWE was in a big mess. Merely because it was a transition period and the slow rise of the OVW Four (Brock Lesnar, Randy Orton, Batista, & John Cena). The WWE began allowing guys to work longer matches on free TV and helping build better feuds and storylines. Case in point, the work rate is better from 2002-2014 moreso than 1997-2001. Totally agreed. When you list top 10 greatest technical wrestlers of all time, you'll find Benoit/Angle/Eddie/Lesnar/Chavo on it and all of those guys were leading the pack on Smackdown from 2002-2004, during their prime. I'm curious about the ages of people who preferred the Ruthless Aggression era. I'm guessing that for the most part, they were too young to have been watching through the terrible New Generation era and then the excitement of the Attitude Era that came out of that. A lot of the Attitude stuff doesn't hold up now, but at the time, it was incredible. Every week you had to tune in to see what happened next with Austin and McMahon, or DX and the Nation, or Undertaker and Kane etc. The Ruthless Aggression era was full of people bitching online just like the kids on here do now. The Attitude era didn't have that as much -- this is largely because there were far fewer people online, but also because it was just an exciting time to be a fan. Certainly far more exciting than Chavo Guerrero being in the main events. In the attitude era, people weren't thinking "I know how to book wrestling better than WWE, WWE SUX" and crying all the time, they were just following the stories. This was no longer the case by the time the brand split happened. Does a Wfigs thread from Unforgiven 2002 still exist, out of interest? I really only started watching seriously from 2000 on, but the fact of the matter is..I have been able to catch most of the attitude era again through downloads/streams. We all agree that the segments, storylines and characters were overall at their best (actually, probably not their BEST, but the characters were revolutionized) during the AE, but when it came to matches on free TV and PPVs, RA > AE. Chavo in the main events? Really? Is that what you cherry pick from the Ruthless Aggression Era? Hey, I can cherry pick too. Ruthless Aggression era was far more exciting than Chyna facing Stone Cold for the WWF title, or crappy midcards like Big Boss Man vs Shamrock, Viscera vs Big Show, or the Outlawz vs Farooq and D-Lo Brown. RA just on Smackdown had The Rock (for one year), Angle, Taker, Lesnar, Eddie, Benoit, Cena, Booker, Rey, RVD, JBL, The Dudleyz, Shelton/Haas wrestling at arguably the greatest technical ability you'll ever see in your life in the WWE. All of these guys were in their prime and putting on 4 star matches week in and week out. I'd actually like to see a thread from 2002 here if somebody can find one. |
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Alpha Q Up
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Post by Alpha Q Up on Mar 22, 2014 0:06:01 GMT -5
RA lasted from 2003 - December 31 2009 Wrong. mid 2002-late 2007 at the latest. |
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Post by BrIaNMeRcY on Mar 22, 2014 0:10:04 GMT -5
I'm curious about the ages of people who preferred the Ruthless Aggression era. I'm guessing that for the most part, they were too young to have been watching through the terrible New Generation era and then the excitement of the Attitude Era that came out of that. A lot of the Attitude stuff doesn't hold up now, but at the time, it was incredible. Every week you had to tune in to see what happened next with Austin and McMahon, or DX and the Nation, or Undertaker and Kane etc. The Ruthless Aggression era was full of people bitching online just like the kids on here do now. The Attitude era didn't have that as much -- this is largely because there were far fewer people online, but also because it was just an exciting time to be a fan. Certainly far more exciting than Chavo Guerrero being in the main events. In the attitude era, people weren't thinking "I know how to book wrestling better than WWE, WWE SUX" and crying all the time, they were just following the stories. This was no longer the case by the time the brand split happened. Does a Wfigs thread from Unforgiven 2002 still exist, out of interest? Being a life-long wrestling fan, I can tell you I remember the tail end of the Hogan Era, to seeing Bret Hart becoming the WWF Champion at WrestleMania X, seeing Steve Austin climb to the top in the WWF, and to the rise of John Cena. I have seen tons and tons of the good and the bad in the last 20+ years. I do agree that stuff from the late-90's has not aged well. While watching WrestleMania XV three times last year (1999, 2005, 2013 versions), I was like damn, this event has not aged well in the 14 years since 'Mania XV. One of the main factors why people didn't really bitch about the WWF during the Attitude Era is because everybody ate up what the WWF was doing. Additionally, the amount of people on wrestling message forums was far smaller in 1999 than it was in 2003. It was mentioned in a post in the lounge that posts from 2001-2006 no longer exist on here. The WWE can produce good and solid programming, yet people will find a minute detail and bitch about it. Future generations of wrestling fans will bitch and complain about the product. Just like most people here do. |
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Alpha Q Up
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Post by Alpha Q Up on Mar 22, 2014 0:23:51 GMT -5
Once 2000 rolled around, things began to cool down while being hot. Some Sorry, I didn't see this line before. 2000 was the WWF's greatest year profit wise and for overall PPVs buyrates. Here are a list of the highest PPV buyrates during the attitude era (98-2001). Most of them are 2000 PPVs. Wrestlemania 14 - 730,000 buys Summerslam 98 - 700,000 Wrestlemania 15 - 800,000 Summerslam 99 - 600,000 Royal Rumble 2000 - 590,000 No Way Out 2000 - 480,000 Wrestlemania 2000 - 824,000 Backlash 2000 - 675,000 Judgement Day 2000 - 420,000 KOTR 2000 - 475,000 Fully Loaded 2000 - 420,000 Summerslam 2000 - 570,000 Unforgiven 2000 - 605,000 No Mercy 2000 - 550,000 Survivor Series 2000 - 400,000 Armageddon 2000 - 465,000 No Way Out 2001: 590,000 Royal Rumble 2001 - 625,000 Wrestlemania 17 - 1,040,000 Non Attitude Era PPVs Invasion: 775,000 (Main Event Tag match) Royal Rumble 2002: 670,000 (Rock vs. Jericho/Rumble match) Summerslam 2005: 650,000 (Hogan vs. HBK) Royal Rumble 2003: 585,000 (Drew more than WM19) (Royal Rumble Match) No Way Out 2002: 575,000 (Austin vs. Jericho and NWO Debut) |
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Post by BrIaNMeRcY on Mar 22, 2014 0:30:51 GMT -5
Once 2000 rolled around, things began to cool down while being hot. Some Sorry, I didn't see this line before. 2000 was the WWF's greatest year profit wise and for overall PPVs buyrates. Here are a list of the highest PPV buyrates during the attitude era (98-2001). Most of them are 2000 PPVs. Wrestlemania 14 - 730,000 buys Summerslam 98 - 700,000 Wrestlemania 15 - 800,000 Summerslam 99 - 600,000 Royal Rumble 2000 - 590,000 No Way Out 2000 - 480,000 Wrestlemania 2000 - 824,000 Backlash 2000 - 675,000 Judgement Day 2000 - 420,000 KOTR 2000 - 475,000 Fully Loaded 2000 - 420,000 Summerslam 2000 - 570,000 Unforgiven 2000 - 605,000 No Mercy 2000 - 550,000 Survivor Series 2000 - 400,000 Armageddon 2000 - 465,000 No Way Out 2001: 590,000 Royal Rumble 2001 - 625,000 Wrestlemania 17 - 1,040,000 Non Attitude Era PPVs Invasion: 775,000 (Main Event Tag match) Royal Rumble 2002: 670,000 (Rock vs. Jericho/Rumble match) Summerslam 2005: 650,000 (Hogan vs. HBK) Royal Rumble 2003: 585,000 (Drew more than WM19) (Royal Rumble Match) No Way Out 2002: 575,000 (Austin vs. Jericho and NWO Debut) What I meant by cooling down was the fact that everything was beginning to simmer down. It was slow, really slow. The cooling off period reached its end towards the end of 2001. The WWF was still doing stellar ratings and PPV buys. Also, you should know that the buyrate back then was only from domestic buys. Had they factored in international buys, the overall number would be far more impressive than it is. |
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Alpha Q Up
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Post by Alpha Q Up on Mar 22, 2014 0:39:23 GMT -5
Sorry, I didn't see this line before. 2000 was the WWF's greatest year profit wise and for overall PPVs buyrates. Here are a list of the highest PPV buyrates during the attitude era (98-2001). Most of them are 2000 PPVs. Wrestlemania 14 - 730,000 buys Summerslam 98 - 700,000 Wrestlemania 15 - 800,000 Summerslam 99 - 600,000 Royal Rumble 2000 - 590,000 No Way Out 2000 - 480,000 Wrestlemania 2000 - 824,000 Backlash 2000 - 675,000 Judgement Day 2000 - 420,000 KOTR 2000 - 475,000 Fully Loaded 2000 - 420,000 Summerslam 2000 - 570,000 Unforgiven 2000 - 605,000 No Mercy 2000 - 550,000 Survivor Series 2000 - 400,000 Armageddon 2000 - 465,000 No Way Out 2001: 590,000 Royal Rumble 2001 - 625,000 Wrestlemania 17 - 1,040,000 Non Attitude Era PPVs Invasion: 775,000 (Main Event Tag match) Royal Rumble 2002: 670,000 (Rock vs. Jericho/Rumble match) Summerslam 2005: 650,000 (Hogan vs. HBK) Royal Rumble 2003: 585,000 (Drew more than WM19) (Royal Rumble Match) No Way Out 2002: 575,000 (Austin vs. Jericho and NWO Debut) What I meant by cooling down was the fact that everything was beginning to simmer down. It was slow, really slow. The cooling off period reached its end towards the end of 2001. The WWF was still doing stellar ratings and PPV buys. Also, you should know that the buyrate back then was only from domestic buys. Had they factored in international buys, the overall number would be far more impressive than it is. Oh yeah, gotcha. 2000 was still the greatest year in the WWE product wise (imo) and profit wise (fact). Here are the official buyrates for 2000, and PPVs before it FY 1995: 1868900 total buys @ 100% domestic = 1,868,900 domestic buys for 5 PPVs = 374k domestic buys/PPV FY 1996: 2831700 total buys @ 100% domestic = 2,831,700 domestic buys for 12 PPVs = 236k domestic buys/PPV FY 1997: 2252200 total buys @ 100% domestic = 2,252,200 domestic buys for 12 PPVs = 188k domestic buys/PPV FY 1998: 2936100 total buys @ 100% domestic = 2,936,100 domestic buys for 12 PPVs = 245k domestic buys/PPV FY 1999: 5378100 total buys @ 100% domestic = 5,378,100 domestic buys for 12 PPVs = 448k domestic buys/PPV FY 2000: 7135464 total buys @ 100% domestic = 7,135,464 domestic buys for 12 PPVs = 595k domestic buys/PPV www.2xzone.com/wwe/buyrates.shtml#.Uy0hOfldWygThe guy headlining most of those ppvs in the main event from 1999-2004 is The Rock. He holds the record of main-eventing 17 PPVs that have gotten over 500k buys. Holds the record of drawing most major shows with 10,000+ attendance on top in one calendar year. He broke Hogan's 1986and Austin's 1998 record in 1999 and set a record of headlining over 100 shows with 10,000 plus people in attendance in year 2000. A box-office drawing record that is unsurpassed till date. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2014 0:45:28 GMT -5
I'm curious about the ages of people who preferred the Ruthless Aggression era. I'm guessing that for the most part, they were too young to have been watching through the terrible New Generation era and then the excitement of the Attitude Era that came out of that. A lot of the Attitude stuff doesn't hold up now, but at the time, it was incredible. Every week you had to tune in to see what happened next with Austin and McMahon, or DX and the Nation, or Undertaker and Kane etc. I started watching in 2000, and the RA era is my favorite. I think nostalgia has a LOT to do with what people prefer, but it's not a bad thing. But there is some online archives I found of people complaining from the attitude era. hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1296161There will never be a period where everyone is happy. Ever. |
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Alpha Q Up
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Post by Alpha Q Up on Mar 22, 2014 0:53:01 GMT -5
I'm curious about the ages of people who preferred the Ruthless Aggression era. I'm guessing that for the most part, they were too young to have been watching through the terrible New Generation era and then the excitement of the Attitude Era that came out of that. A lot of the Attitude stuff doesn't hold up now, but at the time, it was incredible. Every week you had to tune in to see what happened next with Austin and McMahon, or DX and the Nation, or Undertaker and Kane etc. I started watching in 2000, and the RA era is my favorite. I think nostalgia has a LOT to do with what people prefer, but it's not a bad thing. But there is some online archives I found of people complaining from the attitude era. hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1296161There will never be a period where everyone is happy. Ever. Hunter Hulk Hogan..looks like things never change lol. ''RVD & Kane both were booked to win the World Title in 2002 but HHH vetoed both and refused to job to either man.''
''In February-March of 2003, Booker T was supposed to face Rock in a match on RAW and it was promoted for a week. At the last minute, it was changed and Rock ended up wrestling Hurricane. This pissed a lot of people off because of the bait and switch but there was more to it than meets the eye.
Supposedly, Rock refused to work the program because he knew what the end result was going to be and that is HHH coming out on top. Supposedly, Rock was still very bitter over what happened to Jericho in early 2002 (Rock/Jericho had a big feud with Jericho going over HUGE, only to be buried by HHH). Rock knew that HHH was pretty much going to go over Booker at WM and wanted no part of it. In the end, Rock did a program with Hurricane and HHH shortly after beat Hurricane on RAW after Hurricane had beaten The Rock. And of course, Booker got squashed by HHH.''
Meltzer quote about HHH/Shawn: "HHH and Shawn, who were jealous of Rock (since Rock and HHH were on the same path upwards as the tall guys with good bodies who were good athletes that the company loved), wanted Bret to pin Rock in a TV match in 1997. Bret refused to pin Rock, perhaps as much because he liked him (which is why Rock always goes out of his way to praise Bret even though his stardom really came after Bret left), more because it was his way to stick to to Shawn and HHH for Shawn getting out of Mania"
Also according to Meltzer, there was an angle in July of 2002 that got nixed. It was supposed to be Cena slapping Vince instead of Jericho. HHH went to Vince and got it changed, saying no one should touch Vince until after Summerslam, except for Hogan. Heyman & Pat Patterson came up with the angle and were upset, which lead to major heat between HHH & the locker room. The general feeling was that HHH saw the potential in Cena and wanted to hold him back.Classic HHH. |
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Post by instant classic on Mar 22, 2014 1:04:00 GMT -5
I agree, tbh..2000 to mid 2005 is my favorite era of pro wrestling ever. Great PPVs along with both RAW and Smackdown being top notch, tbh..also an amazing roster and it seemed like everybody had some sort of storyline to work with.
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