jakksking1
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Joined on: Feb 2, 2011 14:45:41 GMT -5
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Post by jakksking1 on May 31, 2014 21:40:52 GMT -5
Yeah, but that's like saying how many matches from March 98-March99 had a big match feel. Austin/Taker at Summer Slam, Foley/Taker at KotR, Austin/Vince at SVDM... maybe the 3 way cage match from Breakdown? I think you are missing a couple big ones: Austin/HBK with mike Tyson, first Kane/Taker match, Taker/Mankind HIAC, Taker/Austin Buried Alive, Rock Foley I Quit Match. Just off the top of my head. Edit I'm an idiot didn't see the HIAC
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Hitman Bono
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WF 10 Year Member
The Sunday Jeff of it all...
Joined on: Apr 2, 2002 23:16:46 GMT -5
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Post by Hitman Bono on May 31, 2014 21:47:51 GMT -5
Yeah you're right. But this backs my claim up about the current selling point being WWE and not anyone in particular outside of part timers.
I would say that I feel like the Chamber and MitB matches had that big match feel this past year.
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Post by Hendrix83 on May 31, 2014 21:56:10 GMT -5
The matchesWere the matches better? Good question. There seem to be more Pay Per View classics from those days than there are now. But there are technically good matches nowadays. And it's tough to put my finger on why today's matches lack the lasting impact of matches from 10+ years ago. Am I remembering through rose colored glasses? No. I own every RAW and PPV from 1990-2003 as an .mp4 on my computer. . I believe it is because we get so many of the same matches week after week on free tv regarding the lasting impact. People tend to remember once in a lifetime moments or special occasions. Cena and Orton put on very good matches, but for the life of me I can't tell you the difference between any of them. Agreed. They tend to give away PPV matches on television without allowing the rivalries to blossom and develop. They're building a rivalry and suddenly it's like, "Next time on Smackdown, the match you thought we were going to put on the PPV!" Keep the heel away from the babyface for a few weeks. Let it marinate. Thrill of the chase, come on man lol. Here's another thing that happens often nowadays: Wrestler A pins Wrestler B, the champion, on Raw. Thus starting their feud over the championship. While it's not all bad, how often we see this formula takes all of the drama out of it. Maybe I'm too old school, but a champion should hardly ever be pinned cleanly. Unless he's dropping the belt or starting the rivalry. Give these Championship titles some more legitimacy.
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Post by Hendrix83 on May 31, 2014 22:02:12 GMT -5
I can tell you their Iron Man match was.... actually, I know that I've seen it, but I don't remember a thing about it. The one from this past December was extra bad. Iron Man matches are tough in general. But these guys? Even the great Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels couldn't sustain an interesting match for the whole hour. As great as the memory of Wrestlemania 12 may be. I think a 30 minute Iron Man match always works better. I remember Ricky Steamboat and Rick Rude having an incredible "Iron Man Challenge" in the early 90's (where WWF got the idea), but it was only 30 minutes.
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Hitman Bono
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WF 10 Year Member
The Sunday Jeff of it all...
Joined on: Apr 2, 2002 23:16:46 GMT -5
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Post by Hitman Bono on May 31, 2014 22:10:18 GMT -5
Yeah, I still think Survivor Series '92 was better than WM12. HHH/Benoit's was the best WWE Iron Man match.
Have you seen Kobashi/Kawada from '96? It's the best 60 minute singles match of all time.
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Post by Mike Giggs' Munchies on May 31, 2014 22:11:42 GMT -5
An average match that means something is, in my opinion, much better than a great match that means nothing. That's why the Attitude Era will always beat this era.
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Post by Hendrix83 on May 31, 2014 22:16:55 GMT -5
Yeah, I still think Survivor Series '92 was better than WM12. HHH/Benoit's was the best WWE Iron Man match. Have you seen Kobashi/Kawada from '96? It's the best 60 minute singles match of all time. Honestly I haven't seen it, but now I have something to watch tomorrow afternoon. Good ol Youtube.
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Deleted
Joined on: May 7, 2024 13:39:37 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2014 22:22:03 GMT -5
Wwe ae> wcw during the pre Russo era> pg era
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Post by Nivro™ on May 31, 2014 23:19:36 GMT -5
I'm not really sure what this is setting out to prove. Either era can have the greatest matches in wrestling history and it still wouldn't change the opinions of some people. Wrestling is and always will be subjective and no list will change people's minds. Pretty much, Opinions are just that...opinions. I could list 10-15 matches between Flair & Steamboat that are 4 or 5 star matches...Doesnt mean that era was better then the other (although my opinion believes so). You cant really compare two things that are so different. Its why guys like Sammartino, Hogan, Austin & Cena cant be compared.
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Hitman Bono
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The Sunday Jeff of it all...
Joined on: Apr 2, 2002 23:16:46 GMT -5
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Post by Hitman Bono on Jun 1, 2014 0:01:33 GMT -5
I'm not really sure what this is setting out to prove. Either era can have the greatest matches in wrestling history and it still wouldn't change the opinions of some people. Wrestling is and always will be subjective and no list will change people's minds. Pretty much, Opinions are just that...opinions. I could list 10-15 matches between Flair & Steamboat that are 4 or 5 star matches...Doesnt mean that era was better then the other (although my opinion believes so). You cant really compare two things that are so different. Its why guys like Sammartino, Hogan, Austin & Cena cant be compared. So you can't watch the Flair/Steamboat/Funk 89-90 run, then compare it to the Hogan/Dungeon on Doom run in 95-96 and ascertain that the Flair/Steamboat/Funk run was better? The uh... point of the thread was to list the great matches of the Attitude Era and compare it to the PG Era match quality. As I said in the op Meaning, when something is great in wrestling it's something that transcends the opinions of the individuals of that see it. A great match is always universally accepted as such, excluding the Foley/Taker HIAC match (hence my explanation after my listing of the match). See, it's my opinion that ranch dressing is gross because that's something that others disagree with. Compare that with Flair/Steamboat from Chi-Town Rumble. While opinions might sway between 4 and 5 stars, the fact that it's great isn't the thing being argued.
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Hitman Bono
Main Eventer
WF 10 Year Member
The Sunday Jeff of it all...
Joined on: Apr 2, 2002 23:16:46 GMT -5
Posts: 3,101
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Post by Hitman Bono on Jun 1, 2014 1:25:25 GMT -5
I had in once... I'm still trying to get over the experience
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Deleted
Joined on: May 7, 2024 13:39:37 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2014 10:39:31 GMT -5
The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels from WtestleMania 25, in my opinion, is the greatest overall wrestling match that I have ever seen in any era, in any promotion. The story they told, and the crowd being so emotionally invested. Hands down best match ever.
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Hitman Bono
Main Eventer
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The Sunday Jeff of it all...
Joined on: Apr 2, 2002 23:16:46 GMT -5
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Post by Hitman Bono on Jun 1, 2014 21:08:39 GMT -5
We're actually coming up on the 20th anniversary of the greatest pro wrestling match of all time!
6-3-1994
If you've never seen it, well... You're only half a wrestling fan.
'Taker/HBK is awesome tho
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Post by Next Man’s Knowing Rock on Jun 2, 2014 7:58:30 GMT -5
I believe it is because we get so many of the same matches week after week on free tv regarding the lasting impact. People tend to remember once in a lifetime moments or special occasions. Cena and Orton put on very good matches, but for the life of me I can't tell you the difference between any of them. Yup. Matches get repeated so many times that they all just blend into one. They're good but forgettable. People love Cesaro, but apart from the WrestleMania match and the Cena match, he's had pretty much zero genuinely memorable moments. Ziggler, has he had any? I guess the Money in the Bank cash-in and the Payback double-turn. Daniel Bryan wrestled The Shield so many times last year that it diminished the value of any one of those matches. Four weeks of great build to a great match on the fifth week would be so much sweeter and more memorable than five weeks of really good matches that are impossible to distinguish from each other.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2014 11:41:23 GMT -5
Ziggler, has he had any? I guess the Money in the Bank cash-in and the Payback double-turn. . Ziggler getting eliminated from the U.S. Title battle Royale by Superstars Comedy act Santino(never on TV anymore) Marella is pretty memorable for me. That and dancing with Rose. If this isn't evidence enough that Vince and co see NOTHING in Ziggler I just don't know what to tell people like.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2014 11:46:47 GMT -5
We're actually coming up on the 20th anniversary of the greatest pro wrestling match of all time! 6-3-1994If you've never seen it, well... You're only half a wrestling fan. 'Taker/HBK is awesome tho I guess I'm half a fan because I have no idea what match your talking about
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Post by Wato Stan Account on Jun 2, 2014 12:04:58 GMT -5
We're actually coming up on the 20th anniversary of the greatest pro wrestling match of all time! 6-3-1994If you've never seen it, well... You're only half a wrestling fan. 'Taker/HBK is awesome tho Giant vs Ice Train is a true classic. But seriously, don't insult people who haven't seen AJPW. You know as well as anyone into puro that most Americans don't take it to it. Hell if they did, we'd all be watching NJPW and NOAH and not arguing if modern WWE is even good.
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Post by Next Man’s Knowing Rock on Jun 2, 2014 13:27:28 GMT -5
We're actually coming up on the 20th anniversary of the greatest pro wrestling match of all time! 6-3-1994If you've never seen it, well... You're only half a wrestling fan. 'Taker/HBK is awesome tho I guess I'm half a fan because I have no idea what match your talking about Yokozuna vs Mabel in Milan, Italy.
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Hitman Bono
Main Eventer
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The Sunday Jeff of it all...
Joined on: Apr 2, 2002 23:16:46 GMT -5
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Post by Hitman Bono on Jun 2, 2014 13:27:55 GMT -5
We're actually coming up on the 20th anniversary of the greatest pro wrestling match of all time! 6-3-1994If you've never seen it, well... You're only half a wrestling fan. 'Taker/HBK is awesome tho Giant vs Ice Train is a true classic. But seriously, don't insult people who haven't seen AJPW. You know as well as anyone into puro that most Americans don't take it to it. Hell if they did, we'd all be watching NJPW and NOAH and not arguing if modern WWE is even good. It's not an insult. If I tell someone that I love U2's The Joshua Tree, but have only heard the first side of the record, someone pointing out that I'm only "half a fan" of the Joshua Tree isn't an insult. Sure, I can say that IMO With or Without You is the best song on the album, but if I haven't heard In God's Country then my opinion isn't completely valid is it? If Wato Stan Account would've said that Coke was the best soda of all time I could've said that Pepsi is, and that if he hadn't ever had Pepsi then how could he call Coke the greatest. I'm sorry if my comment offended anyone, it surely wasn't my intention to do so. I don't understand the "most Americans" thing you said... I've shown AJ/NJ jr stuff/Battlearts stuff/FMW crazy death match stuff to people and they've always taken to it. Even the times I've made people watch Dream Slam 93 it's always been met with overwhelming positivity. The Ziggler deal is his fault. He's gotta figure out when to shut up. He's a great worker yeah, but going on and on and on about stealing the show to everyone backstage, and bitching publicly that he's not being utilized isn't the best way to endear himself to the brass. It's the same thing as a wide receiver b*tching about getting the ball enough. Plus, nobody is ever going to take anyone with the name Dolph Ziggler seriously... I love the guy's work tho
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Post by Wato Stan Account on Jun 2, 2014 13:35:29 GMT -5
Giant vs Ice Train is a true classic. But seriously, don't insult people who haven't seen AJPW. You know as well as anyone into puro that most Americans don't take it to it. Hell if they did, we'd all be watching NJPW and NOAH and not arguing if modern WWE is even good. It's not an insult. If I tell someone that I love U2's The Joshua Tree, but have only heard the first side of the record, someone pointing out that I'm only "half a fan" of the Joshua Tree isn't an insult. Sure, I can say that IMO With or Without You is the best song on the album, but if I haven't heard In God's Country then my opinion isn't completely valid is it? If Wato Stan Account would've said that Coke was the best soda of all time I could've said that Pepsi is, and that if he hadn't ever had Pepsi then how could he call Coke the greatest. I'm sorry if my comment offended anyone, it surely wasn't my intention to do so. I don't understand the "most Americans" thing you said... I've shown AJ/NJ jr stuff/Battlearts stuff/FMW crazy death match stuff to people and they've always taken to it. Even the times I've made people watch Dream Slam 93 it's always been met with overwhelming positivity. The Ziggler deal is his fault. He's gotta figure out when to shut up. He's a great worker yeah, but going on and on and on about stealing the show to everyone backstage, and bitching publicly that he's not being utilized isn't the best way to endear himself to the brass. It's the same thing as a wide receiver b*tching about getting the ball enough. Plus, nobody is ever going to take anyone with the name Dolph Ziggler seriously... I love the guy's work tho You're comparing one U2 album to the entirety of pro wrestling. That makes no sense. But whatever, learn to use better U2 analogies. Read wreddit or the puro thread, you'll see comments like "I can't get past the commentary". Which yes, I find that to be an insanely silly way to not get into something. But you also have to realize that people who will take to that often actually WANT to enjoy good pro wrestling, know someone who's into it and can find it. Some people simply don't care and don't want to. That doesn't make them any more or less of a wrestling fan. You still have to take in availability and personal time into everyone's lives. It should be simply astounding that people have knowledge of multiple generations of American wrestling, a lot of which they may not have been alive for. Just because they're missing one match doesn't make them half a fan. It just makes you look like an as*hole.
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