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Why?
Aug 13, 2014 6:01:30 GMT -5
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Post by Jonathan Karate on Aug 13, 2014 6:01:30 GMT -5
So I'm sitting here watching King of the Ring 1998 and just saw the spot where Foley goes through the top of the Hell in the Cell.
My question here doesn't relate to the match itself really, but more-so why do Foley and everyone else who would be in the know at the time go out of their way to say that this was not planned?
To me it has always been extremely obvious in my opinion that the spot was planned. And for a few good reasons.
First of all, and this one could be attributed to Taker being nervous and not trying to have the cage give underneath him, but Taker cautiously avoids that roof panel before the chokeslam. Again he could have simply been being cautious for his own safety but he didn't seem to have the same caution while preparing for the announce table spot minutes before.
The second thing that has led me to think it was planned is the sight right after Foley lands. If you look around there are multiple black "zip-ties" laying all over the mat. Why on earth would ANYONE think that zip-ties are going to hold up a 300lb man...
The whole thing just bothers me because Foley and others always say it was not planned but from the looks of things it certainly was.
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Aug 13, 2014 10:25:52 GMT -5
Post by BrIaNMeRcY on Aug 13, 2014 10:25:52 GMT -5
One of the many faults with the original Hell In A Cell structure was it wasn't as robust as the current structure. I have always been told only the first stop was planned (getting thrown off through the announce table) and not the second spot (getting chokeslammed). Whether it was planned or not, we'll never know for sure. That is unless somebody who was involved n booking would break their silence. In retrospect, if this match wasn't on the card, the 1998 King of The Ring would have not been fondly remembered.
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Aug 13, 2014 11:17:08 GMT -5
I still say the 2nd spot with him going through the cage was planned.
If it wasn't planned, I would be interested as to how after being choke slammed on top of the cell, that he would get up, look at Taker, and both walk down the cage separately?? No way!
He was meant to go through the cell, there was freaking zip ties holding the cell together at the top. And the first one with HBK and Taker didn't have zip ties. And no other Cell has had them since either.
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Aug 13, 2014 12:18:56 GMT -5
Post by punksnotdead on Aug 13, 2014 12:18:56 GMT -5
I think it was 100% planned. The piece Foley falls through looks like a swinging door. Foley is just certifiable.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2014 12:35:39 GMT -5
I thought it was planned, just the chair twating him wasn't?
*EDIT* after going back and watching it again, I'm convinced it's not planned. Don't ask why because I don't know, I just do.
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dante123
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Aug 13, 2014 12:54:57 GMT -5
Post by dante123 on Aug 13, 2014 12:54:57 GMT -5
Taker and Mick planned the first spot, but nobody else backstage didn't know that was going to happen neither did Vince.
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Aug 13, 2014 13:15:54 GMT -5
Post by Evil Abed on Aug 13, 2014 13:15:54 GMT -5
Taker and Mick planned the first spot, but nobody else backstage didn't know that was going to happen neither did Vince. I find it hard to believe that if it was a planned spot that no one else knew backstage it was going to happen including Vince. I mean did Foley and Taker go up there before the event, cut a hole in the cell, and then zip tie it personally? I don't believe that for a second. I'll have to go back and look at the zip tie bit personally as I don't really recall it, but I did notice the first time they were up there how Taker or Mick's foot went through part of the cell just by walking around, making me believe it wasnt as sturdy as it should have been. I could easily see it going either way, however if I do see the zip ties when I go back and watch the match, I'd like to see if they were anywhere else. If not then yes I'd have to believe it was a planned spot and not an accident.
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PenguinDeluxe
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Post by PenguinDeluxe on Aug 13, 2014 13:16:01 GMT -5
It is important to note though that the paneling on the other side before the first fall started to give way as well, even though it was not involved in a spot.
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Aug 13, 2014 13:32:53 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2014 13:32:53 GMT -5
Yeah I dunno man...
Part of the cell roof were breaking with them just walking around on it.
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Dr. Mantis Toboggan MD
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Aug 13, 2014 16:41:37 GMT -5
Post by Dr. Mantis Toboggan MD on Aug 13, 2014 16:41:37 GMT -5
I doubt that it was planned as at some point Taker's foot goes through one of the other panels. Also, if it were planned, why didn't they have the ring implode like No Way Out 2000? There is no way that Vince was going to let Foley do the both spots without at least soften one of the blows (i.e. clear the table off).
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Post by Next Man’s Knowing Rock on Aug 13, 2014 17:00:55 GMT -5
The chokeslam through the cell was planned, but the chair falling on his face wasn't.
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Aug 13, 2014 17:03:22 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2014 17:03:22 GMT -5
I remember Foley saying the second fall hurt way more because it wasn't planned.
Maybe if it wasn't planned for that particular spot if there were zip ties. That would explain his awkward fall.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2014 18:42:27 GMT -5
All I know is that Cell looked damn shaky with those two bouncing around on it!!
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Aug 13, 2014 18:59:08 GMT -5
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Post by Jonathan Karate on Aug 13, 2014 18:59:08 GMT -5
Taker does cause a part of the roof to give away before the first spot. I do remember that. But that just adds to the second spot being planned. The part that almost gave away with Taker standing on it was right at a support beam if I remember correctly. And it just kind of sagged down.
The panel Floey goes through gives away with ease and only covers one of the square shaped panels. Unlike the part that almost gave away with Taker, that section of the fencing seemed to cover four or more of the square panels.
I'm sure I could go back and find some more things to support my opinion but it really doesn't matter. The spot is still insane and will never be forgotten.
I just don't like that Foley lies about it. It doesn't seem like something he would do and makes me wonder if there's any other bullcrap stories he's told.
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Dr. Mantis Toboggan MD
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Aug 13, 2014 19:32:34 GMT -5
Post by Dr. Mantis Toboggan MD on Aug 13, 2014 19:32:34 GMT -5
Taker does cause a part of the roof to give away before the first spot. I do remember that. But that just adds to the second spot being planned. The part that almost gave away with Taker standing on it was right at a support beam if I remember correctly. And it just kind of sagged down. The panel Floey goes through gives away with ease and only covers one of the square shaped panels. Unlike the part that almost gave away with Taker, that section of the fencing seemed to cover four or more of the square panels. I'm sure I could go back and find some more things to support my opinion but it really doesn't matter. The spot is still insane and will never be forgotten. I just don't like that Foley lies about it. It doesn't seem like something he would do and makes me wonder if there's any other bullcrap stories he's told. I'd beg to differ. It is pretty basic physics. Undertaker probably had around half of his weight on that one foot which struck a weak part of the paneling. Foley was slammed through the paneling on his back which would spread his weight out much more but at the same time the center of mass was landing on the weakest part, the center of the panel. Also if you look at when Taker falls through, they zoom in on the cage and you see a few zip ties at the top, with the only difference being they were white or clear as opposed to black.
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Aug 13, 2014 19:46:08 GMT -5
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Post by Jonathan Karate on Aug 13, 2014 19:46:08 GMT -5
Taker does cause a part of the roof to give away before the first spot. I do remember that. But that just adds to the second spot being planned. The part that almost gave away with Taker standing on it was right at a support beam if I remember correctly. And it just kind of sagged down. The panel Floey goes through gives away with ease and only covers one of the square shaped panels. Unlike the part that almost gave away with Taker, that section of the fencing seemed to cover four or more of the square panels. I'm sure I could go back and find some more things to support my opinion but it really doesn't matter. The spot is still insane and will never be forgotten. I just don't like that Foley lies about it. It doesn't seem like something he would do and makes me wonder if there's any other bullcrap stories he's told. I'd beg to differ. It is pretty basic physics. Undertaker probably had around half of his weight on that one foot which struck a weak part of the paneling. Foley was slammed through the paneling on his back which would spread his weight out much more but at the same time the center of mass was landing on the weakest part, the center of the panel. Also if you look at when Taker falls through, they zoom in on the cage and you see a few zip ties at the top, with the only difference being they were white or clear as opposed to black. That is true and I never noticed the other zip ties. I was more so referring to the fencing itself though. On the side Foley is thrown from it appears to be one or two very large portions of fencing covering the top. Where as the piece Foley goes through is a perfect square covering only one of the panels.
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Dr. Mantis Toboggan MD
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Aug 13, 2014 19:53:45 GMT -5
Post by Dr. Mantis Toboggan MD on Aug 13, 2014 19:53:45 GMT -5
I'd beg to differ. It is pretty basic physics. Undertaker probably had around half of his weight on that one foot which struck a weak part of the paneling. Foley was slammed through the paneling on his back which would spread his weight out much more but at the same time the center of mass was landing on the weakest part, the center of the panel. Also if you look at when Taker falls through, they zoom in on the cage and you see a few zip ties at the top, with the only difference being they were white or clear as opposed to black. That is true and I never noticed the other zip ties. I was more so referring to the fencing itself though. On the side Foley is thrown from it appears to be one or two very large portions of fencing covering the top. Where as the piece Foley goes through is a perfect square covering only one of the panels. That is probably because Taker and Foley are both standing very close over a cross section, while Foley hit the very center of one of the panels during the Chokeslam.
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Aug 13, 2014 19:59:00 GMT -5
Post by marino13 on Aug 13, 2014 19:59:00 GMT -5
I always thought Taker put the chair there to remind him of which section to avoid.
It was obviously planned. Not sure why they continue to keep the illusion that it wasn't.
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Aug 13, 2014 20:24:39 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2014 20:24:39 GMT -5
Kayfabe, son.
Lol anyway, zip ties were popping off everywhere on that cage. Not just that one section.
And why wouldn't Taker walk cautiously on top of mesh fencing 16 foot above a ring with steel posts and a concrete floor surrounding it? It's not like he wrestled that match on a fractured ankle or anything.
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Aug 14, 2014 1:45:09 GMT -5
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Post by Jonathan Karate on Aug 14, 2014 1:45:09 GMT -5
Kayfabe, son. Lol anyway, zip ties were popping off everywhere on that cage. Not just that one section. And why wouldn't Taker walk cautiously on top of mesh fencing 16 foot above a ring with steel posts and a concrete floor surrounding it? It's not like he wrestled that match on a fractured ankle or anything. I know Taker was injured but he had no issues up there with Shawn. Maybe it was a different cage or something because i cant see the extra whopping 60-80 pounds that mankind has on Shawn affecting the structure that much.
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