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Post by Next Man’s Knowing Rock on Nov 6, 2014 12:09:05 GMT -5
cruiserweights don't have to be marketed as a second rate division. when austin aries cashed in the x division title for a shot at the world title Lol. The X division title isn't a cruiserweight title (perhaps you never watched TNA, but it was very specific about not having a weight limit), and it's TNA's second title. Not a fourth-string title created because the Superstars jobbers "don't get to shine" due to being small, even though they're bigger than the guy who won the WrestleMania main event this year. If the X Division title was just some jobber belt created for the Xplosion regulars and made a weight class ghetto for the smaller guys, then yeah, whoever cashed it in for a world title shot would be laughed at.
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Post by k5 on Nov 6, 2014 12:21:37 GMT -5
cruiserweights don't have to be marketed as a second rate division. when austin aries cashed in the x division title for a shot at the world title Lol. The X division title isn't a cruiserweight title (perhaps you never watched TNA, but it was very specific about not having a weight limit), and it's TNA's second title. Not a fourth-string title created because the Superstars jobbers "don't get to shine" due to being small, even though they're bigger than the guy who won the WrestleMania main event this year. while it wasn't completely limited to people under 220 pounds or whatever the limit was, the x division focus was clearly on guys that had a high work rate and could pull off exciting matches that sold on energy and high risk alone. when i was buying the original tna ppvs it wasn't for raven and jeff jarrett feuding - it was for aj styles, jerry lynn, amazing red - amazing talents that can 'go' and were certainly having matches that could be branded under the 'cruiserweight style'. the wwe has always marketed this division as second rate - their light heavyweight division in the late 90s was garbage, their incarnation of the cruiserweight title while at times bringing out quality matches was often relegated to velocity but certainly had it's moments on smackdown. however, in wcw the title was treated like it meant something and was rarely not featured on the monthly ppvs and a lot of the stars of it received strong popularity from it. once again, i believe it's more in the marketing than anything else - but with the wwe having moved away from a lot of that unnecessary constant high-risk, and it going the other way than their current less-is-more style, it's clearly doubtful we'll see the revival of the cruiserweight division any time soon.
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Post by k5 on Nov 6, 2014 12:26:56 GMT -5
If the X Division title was just some jobber belt created for the Xplosion regulars and made a weight class ghetto for the smaller guys, then yeah, whoever cashed it in for a world title shot would be laughed at. so then the issue isn't if a cruiserweight division is or isn't a possibly viable idea, but that the marketing/implementation of the division and treatment of it (not making it appear second rate by constantly appearing on second rate programming, expanding the limits to possibly include guys that are heavier but can still 'go') is the major factor of it succeeding or failing.
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Post by Next Man’s Knowing Rock on Nov 6, 2014 12:27:52 GMT -5
while it wasn't completely limited to people under 220 pounds or whatever the limit was, the x division focus was clearly on guys that had a high work rate and could pull off exciting matches that sold on energy and high risk alone. Well sure, but if WWE didn't insist on pushing slow, unexciting, low-workrate wrestlers like Dolph Ziggler to their IC title, then maybe that belt could have some exciting fast-paced matches for once.
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Post by Next Man’s Knowing Rock on Nov 6, 2014 12:33:17 GMT -5
If the X Division title was just some jobber belt created for the Xplosion regulars and made a weight class ghetto for the smaller guys, then yeah, whoever cashed it in for a world title shot would be laughed at. so then the issue isn't if a cruiserweight division is or isn't a possibly viable idea, but that the marketing/implementation of the division and treatment of it (not making it appear second rate by constantly appearing on second rate programming, If it's a belt made for the guys who aren't good enough to be on the main shows, it's a fourth-rate title. And every time someone brings it up, it's because they want a belt for the guys who aren't good enough to be on the main shows. So it's either: 1. Living in a fantasy world where Daniel Bryan and Seth Rollins are fighting for the Cruiserweight title (which is silly on a number of levels). or 2. Cruiserweight title is the going-nowhere belt for the Superstars guys who aren't at the level of the IC and US, which is utterly pointless. Dearie me. A cruiserweight title without a weight limit is different from the IC and US titles how exactly? Go back and read the Meltzer comment. Try to summarise what good you think a resurrected WWE cruiserweight title would do, and for who, and why the existing belts can't do it.
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Post by k5 on Nov 6, 2014 12:39:01 GMT -5
while it wasn't completely limited to people under 220 pounds or whatever the limit was, the x division focus was clearly on guys that had a high work rate and could pull off exciting matches that sold on energy and high risk alone. Well sure, but if WWE didn't insist on pushing slow, unexciting, low-workrate wrestlers like Dolph Ziggler to their IC title, then maybe that belt could have some exciting fast-paced matches for once. sarcasm, right? it's about the focus. is the focus of the wwe on the intercontinental title division to have matches that feature that high risk, fast pace wrestling? no. i'm not entirely sure how you could define wwe's focus on that division, but it certainly isn't that. the cruiserweight style is branded as that and that was a big selling point on it. once again, that said, i understand why the wwe wouldn't bother with a cruiserweight division - the rate of injury has lessened a great deal with the reduction of big unnecessary moves, the focus often becomes too much in the wrestling and not enough on the story (kind of the reverse from what we normally get), and in a time and age when NXT is becoming bigger and bigger, it's simply not needed. but that doesn't mean it couldn't be successfully done if it was marketed and structured properly.
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Post by Next Man’s Knowing Rock on Nov 6, 2014 12:46:18 GMT -5
the focus often becomes too much in the wrestling and not enough on the story (kind of the reverse from what we normally get) I don't think you've watched WWE in several years if you think there is more focus on story than wrestling in the midcard belts. Myself and rustyy are often in agreement on that front.
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Post by k5 on Nov 6, 2014 13:00:41 GMT -5
the focus often becomes too much in the wrestling and not enough on the story (kind of the reverse from what we normally get) I don't think you've watched WWE in several years if you think there is more focus on story than wrestling in the midcard belts. Myself and rustyy are often in agreement on that front. yes, but overall the majority of matches are character driven instead of purely wrestling driven. i'm not one to quote the devil, but vince russo said in a shoot that a big part of the problem with the guys in the x division in tna were that they were so focused on having 'the best match ever' that they often times left their character to the side and acted out of context - excluding and alienating their character from the match. point being, in a character-driven world like wwe, i'm not sure the cruiserweight division style would really benefit any talents any more - but i still think the concept of the division could succeed within wrestling. hell, the x division did and is, despite whatever arguments could be made, a title focused on that cruiserweight style wcw and ecw put on the map in the 90s.
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Deleted
Joined on: May 2, 2024 16:38:08 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2014 7:27:09 GMT -5
As it pertains to smaller guys being world champion, I've never been a huge fan of the idea, aside from a few guys. The main exception I have is Kurt Angle. He was only about 6'1 but he was a legit badass and was beleivable. HBK is my other exception simply because he was so great.
As we moved into the 2000's, I was always a Jericho fan but I never bought into him as a world champion. And I still don't. The moves me on to guys like Daniel Bryan, CM Punk, and especially Rey Misterio. I don't buy them as world champions. I think it waters down the larger than life image. Same with Benoit and Eddie. Now, I loved Eddie and I always knees Benoit could wrestle his ass off but I don't like the whole "reward the good small wrestlers with world titles" thing.
My main knock on it, is that they make it look like any bum off the street could win a world title. It should be spectacle to it. But if I'm taller, bigger, and even a few years ago just as, or even more muscular than a wwe world champion then I laugh out loud at the TV product.
And what really tickled me was Mark Madden's latest editorial on WrestleZone stating that he's heard from a lot of people about how Undertaker hated working with CM Punk because of his size. 7' babyface. 6' flabby heel. Not good business
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RV F'N D
Main Eventer
Joined on: Mar 13, 2012 21:34:37 GMT -5
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Post by RV F'N D on Nov 15, 2014 16:50:32 GMT -5
I loved WCW's cruiserweight division. Some of my favorite matches are from then, it's a fun style to watch. It would be hard to capture that magic again though. The way the WWE has handled all of their titles (IC and US specifically) in recent years does not make me think they'd manage another any better.
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Post by cordless2016 on Nov 16, 2014 11:06:55 GMT -5
Like others have said it wasn't the idea of Rey as champ because I've always enjoyed the underdog champ storylines (Daniel Bryan is the most recent example of this). It was the circumstances in which he became world champ that turned me off. The whole reason he won the world title was because of Eddie's death. The constant reminders of Eddie from Rey only benefitted Eddie and not really Rey. Then the crap Orton said was disgusting, especially about a man who gave the fans and the WWE everything he had. Now Orton was only saying what he was given but shame on the company for writing that crap. Then once Rey because champ he was loosing to everyone under the sun. With in his first 2 months as champ he had lost clean to Angle, Henry, Kane, and Khali. How the heck are people suppose to get behind Rey when all he does is mention Eddie to get cheap pops and then looses clean to everyone. It was terrible booking that did him in.
I've always been a fan of Rey (and this is going back to his early WCW days). I always felt he could have been a believable underdog world champ if booked correctly. Sadly, the WWE didn't have that same belief in him and his booking suffered. But hey, at least we can say that he didn't have the worst booked world title run ever in the WWE. That sadly goes to Christian, who had it even worse than Rey when it came to finally winning the big one.
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