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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2015 11:42:39 GMT -5
Diesel vs. Undertaker at WM 12 is very underrated and is actually Taker's first really good WM match. 1996 was the first good Undertaker matches period. Yeah you right, you right. However, there is a match from a MSG show between Bret Hart and Undertaker from 91-92 which is fantastic. It's on the Dungeon Collection DVD. Anyway, I think Taker and Jake Roberts couldve had a better program with some decent matches had it not been cut short because Jake left. Their WM match was average but could've been better if Jake was motivated.
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Jan 6, 2015 11:44:35 GMT -5
1996 was the first good Undertaker matches period. Yeah you right, you right. However, there is a match from a MSG show between Bret Hart and Undertaker from 91-92 which is fantastic. It's on the Dungeon Collection DVD. Anyway, I think Taker and Jake Roberts couldve had a better program with some decent matches had it not been cut short because Jake left. Their WM match was average but could've been better if Jake was motivated. True. And this is nothing against the Undertaker, he was just hampered by the zombie character. In 1996, he had good matches with Bret Hart, Diesel and especially Mankind.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2015 11:49:27 GMT -5
Yeah you right, you right. However, there is a match from a MSG show between Bret Hart and Undertaker from 91-92 which is fantastic. It's on the Dungeon Collection DVD. Anyway, I think Taker and Jake Roberts couldve had a better program with some decent matches had it not been cut short because Jake left. Their WM match was average but could've been better if Jake was motivated. True. And this is nothing against the Undertaker, he was just hampered by the zombie character. In 1996, he had good matches with Bret Hart, Diesel and especially Mankind. No doubt. Plus, from 1990-1996 he was stuck in matches with garbage workers like Yoko, Bundy, Mabel, Giant Gonzales, etc.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2015 12:21:16 GMT -5
True. And this is nothing against the Undertaker, he was just hampered by the zombie character. In 1996, he had good matches with Bret Hart, Diesel and especially Mankind. No doubt. Plus, from 1990-1996 he was stuck in matches with garbage workers like Yoko, Bundy, Mabel, Giant Gonzales, etc. His WM8 match with jake was pretty good.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2015 12:25:19 GMT -5
No doubt. Plus, from 1990-1996 he was stuck in matches with garbage workers like Yoko, Bundy, Mabel, Giant Gonzales, etc. His WM8 match with jake was pretty good. I didn't hate it but the match could've been even better if Jake was motivated and not on his way out.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2015 12:30:10 GMT -5
His WM8 match with jake was pretty good. I didn't hate it but the match could've been even better if Jake was motivated and not on his way out. Yeah it could have been better, but I always liked it. It helped that Jake was wearing a gorgeous pair of tights.
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Jan 6, 2015 12:42:13 GMT -5
I always thought Undertaker vs. Hogan matches in late 1991 were good. And Hogan actually worked well with Taker then.
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Post by Brad on Jan 6, 2015 21:15:23 GMT -5
I always thought Undertaker vs. Hogan matches in late 1991 were good. And Hogan actually worked well with Taker then. Agreed
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TheEvilDoink1987
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Post by TheEvilDoink1987 on Jan 6, 2015 23:28:48 GMT -5
It's just that Razor was SO over in '94-'95. I don't know if I could see this being seriously considered. The company was dangerously low on top-flight heels, but Razor was likely one of the top merchandise sellers in the business at the time. Seeing how shaky things were financially for the WWF back then, Vince probably didn't want to risk losing the revenue Razor was generating as a face.
Money. It's the same reason why they won't turn Cena heel any time soon.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2015 10:53:30 GMT -5
It's just that Razor was SO over in '94-'95. I don't know if I could see this being seriously considered. The company was dangerously low on top-flight heels, but Razor was likely one of the top merchandise sellers in the business at the time. Seeing how shaky things were financially for the WWF back then, Vince probably didn't want to risk losing the revenue Razor was generating as a face. Money. It's the same reason why they won't turn Cena heel any time soon. Great point.....RR was routinely the 2# guy for Vince in those years.....and was insanely over. The first time I felt his shine was slipping was after SSlam 1995......I knew Goldust would beat him @ RR96 but when it was because of Kids interference?I thought he was on his way back up(which he was supposed to be of course)but losing to Goldust(and the entire program)convinced Hall to move shop to WCW.
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Raine
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Post by Raine on Jan 7, 2015 14:54:49 GMT -5
Rumour has it, Ramon was also supposed to attack Diesel either during or after the lumberjack match at IYH 2 and become heel. Never came to fruition, sadly. So many great possibilities in 1995 with different guys that Vince never did.
Diesel/Bam Bam - Summerslam 1995 Taker/Razor - WM11 Face Diesel vs Heel Ramon Bam Bam as KOTR winner
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Post by mikey1974 on Jan 7, 2015 15:39:02 GMT -5
I don't think the Japanese guy(Hakushi) was that bad, he had some pretty good matches with other people. But yeah, Bret was used poorly through most of '95 & Hakushi was just wasted in general. A nasty habit WWE has for Japanese Wrestlers. Oh I agree. He was great in the ring I just mean he was another one of those guys who Vince threw at Bret to get over in midcard feuds. Bret talked about how he loved working with Hakushi, and they had great matches together. he also said,unfortunately, Hakushi was too nice a guy for the WWF, and when he moved on to other feuds, people weren't willing or able to make his moves look good, and they took advantage of him. he went from 5 star matches with Bret to losing to Barry Horowitz in like 3 months time. indeed, F*ck You Vince. and the "depleted roster" thing holds no weight with me. it wasn't the 80's, but for what he had at the time, it was a pretty impressive roster through most of 1995: Diesel Shawn Michaels Bret Hart Undertaker Lex Luger British Bulldog Razor Ramon Jeff Jarrett 1-2-3 Kid Bam Bam Bigelow Tatanka Jerry Lawler Sid Vicious Roadie Yokozuna Owen Hart Billy Gunn Bart Gunn Chris Candido Shane Douglas Ahmed Johnson Goldust IRS Bob Holly Tony Anthony Bill Irwin Louie Spicolli Hakushi Marty Jannetty Bob Backlund Savio Vega Tom Prichard Jimmy Del Ray Glen Jacobs King Kong Bundy. Mike Droese ....thats off the top of my head. I'm sure I'm forgetting some. if - IF - utilized properly, that's as good of a roster,if not better, than WCW in 1995. but the year was doomed by 2 factors: 1) Vince was stuck in the past. instead of trying innovative new stuff, he was still booking things like it was the heyday of Hulkamania ( Dieselmania?) . the writing overall sucked, and the product siffered. instead of keeping with the athleticism tone of direction he started around 1992/1993 or so, Vince went right back to the cartoonish ways of the 80's. and it sucked and bombed. big time. to be fair,though,WCW was booking this exact same way as well in 1995. no wonder ECW became a huge thing around this time. 2) the over-the-top cartoonish gimmicks. again,going back to the 80's, people weren't wrestlers, they were cartoon characters or wrestlers with jobs. independent darling Tony Anthony became TL Hopper, a plumber. veteran Bill Irwin became The Goon, a hockey player. Glen Jacobs, a certifiable monster and promising rookie became Issac Yankem DDS, a dentist. Chris Candido became Skip, a fitness instructor. Louie Spicolli became Rad Radford, a Nirvana groupie.Bob Holly became Thurman "Sparky" Plugg, a NASCAR Driver. Mike Droese became Duke "The Dumpster" Droese, a garbage man. and Vince and his inner circle thought these were great ideas, when all it did was show how out of touch Vince had become with the world and his fanbase, becasue even when they started bombing, he kept doing it over and over again!!! 1995 could have, should have been a great year for the WWF. but poor management and a creative department that was either insane,drunk, or completely out of touch pretty much ruined it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2015 10:31:30 GMT -5
Vince's insistence on not using his roster properly in 1995 is hugely irritating to me......WM XI & Summerslam 1995(as well as the KOTR tourney) could have been ten times better.
He just wouldn't pull the f*cking trigger.
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