|
Post by JC Motors on Jan 4, 2015 16:19:41 GMT -5
ABA is Undertakers dark ages
|
|
Deleted
Joined on: May 8, 2024 4:13:02 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2015 16:28:48 GMT -5
ABA is Undertakers dark ages No, not really. I much prefer The Deadman incarnation but the ABA was good for the time and what it was. It was by no means a failure, and some of the pops he got at that time even as a heel were incredible. His heel turn was awesome and the ladder match he had on Raw practically made Jeff Hardy. It was a logical progression that was building through the last part of '99 and the darkside needed a break to make it fresh again. The fact that he was able to transition to a more realistic biker character and back to a Deadman again without losing his appeal and popularity says something about his ability to make mostly anything work.
|
|
|
Post by cmiller79 on Jan 4, 2015 16:37:38 GMT -5
I dont want him to be the aba again but i was a fan of that time period tho
|
|
|
Post by Sleeping Like An Angel on Jan 4, 2015 16:38:08 GMT -5
Nope, the ABA was for the time and that time has passed. I really did like the incarnation though and thought he made it work really well especially as a heel with Big Evil. He rushed back perhaps too soon from a torn pec in 2000 and wasn't 100% for the duration of the year. However, in the second half of '01 and from 2002-2003 he got in better and better shape each week and his matches and performances just kept getting better and better as a result. One of the best heels of that time.
If Undertaker on a personal level decides to call it quits, or if medical necessity dictates he cannot continue I will understand and have respect for that. Although I do feel he deserves (and needs) a proper conclusion and closing story, I will understand if that just can't happen.
However, if all the circumstances come together in the right way and he's rebounded physically and feeling healthy and motivated for a final comeback angle/match then this is how I'd love to see it play out: I'd love to see a return along the lines of the disgruntled, late '98 Taker when he was getting closer to the Ministry of Darkness. I can remember a time when he was so (kayfabe) frustrated with things, angry, and he just wanted revenge and to hurt everybody. There was a time when he'd come out during random matches and just chokeslam the hell out of people or tombstone them. The crowd never knew when he'd show up and they went crazy for his appearances just coming out and reeking havoc.
I'd love to see Taker make a surprise comeback where he attacks a heel at the end of a Raw, or Paul Heyman or somebody. Maybe at first the crowd doesn't know it's him, and suddenly it's revealed to be. Nothing has to be said or done, in fact he can do the same thing (showing up, tombstoning, chokeslamming) at random times for the next few weeks, being p#ssed off, and building crowd anticipation for him. It wouldn't have to be explained why he was angry, or doing any of it because... the streak, the loss, age, Paul Heyman's words in 2014 about him... all of that would be a given as to why the Phenom would be mad and wanting to hurt people. Not saying a word, not cutting a promo, just showing up, kicking ass, causing mayhem would do so much to build anticipation, and restore his image as an intimidating force that can do what he wants, when he wants and it would work wonders to replace the memory of beaten down, injured warrior at WM 30 that fans have of him. From then you can develop a feud with anybody for a final match... someone can final challenge him and step up... Sting, Wyatt... whoever for a final showdown.
I feel that Taker, if he does decide to come back deserves nothing less then a killer and exciting conclusion. I'd LOVE to see him look, act, and BE the true Phenom again and remind everybody that the streak is not who he is and did not make him. I'd love it to be an Undertaker's Redemption storyline where even HE realizes that it was something else within him that fueled him and not the streak at all. I love this idea. That is all.
|
|
|
Post by Next Man’s Knowing Rock on Jan 4, 2015 17:05:02 GMT -5
I much preferred the biker gimmick to the "dresses like a goth, has friends who control the light switches" gimmick he has had for most of his career... But I don't see the point in it now. If he comes back, it'll only be for one match anyway at this point so it's best to stick to the classic deadman deal. As opposed to: Crazy swamp guy who carries a chair and also has friends in lighting. A business demon who plants fire explosions in key places every week, suspiciously also has friends in lighting. The music guy who seems to always be spot on with random run ins. A former football player who can conjure sparks to stand in before finding out "who in fact, is next?" Why are you arguing realism? I'm not sure which part of my post said "I'm a big fan of all the other guys getting their friends in the truck to help them distract people."
|
|
|
Post by Wato Stan Account on Jan 4, 2015 17:32:17 GMT -5
As opposed to: Crazy swamp guy who carries a chair and also has friends in lighting. A business demon who plants fire explosions in key places every week, suspiciously also has friends in lighting. The music guy who seems to always be spot on with random run ins. A former football player who can conjure sparks to stand in before finding out "who in fact, is next?" Why are you arguing realism? I'm not sure which part of my post said "I'm a big fan of all the other guys getting their friends in the truck to help them distract people." Not even pointing that out. But if you're going to nitpick one guy for that you may as well nitpick almost every wrestler for having a garish entrance.
|
|
|
Post by Flair Forever on Jan 4, 2015 17:40:51 GMT -5
I had read a few years ago that Vince McMahon hated the American B.A. gimmick - and he wishes they had never done it.
So I doubt they'll revisit that particular time in 'Taker's career....
|
|
|
Post by Next Man’s Knowing Rock on Jan 4, 2015 17:42:58 GMT -5
I'm not sure which part of my post said "I'm a big fan of all the other guys getting their friends in the truck to help them distract people." Not even pointing that out. But if you're going to nitpick one guy for that you may as well nitpick almost every wrestler for having a garish entrance. The entrance isn't an issue. Scaring other wrestlers mid-promo by having someone turn out the lights or scramble the tron is the thing.
|
|
Deleted
Joined on: May 8, 2024 4:13:02 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2015 17:47:03 GMT -5
I had read a few years ago that Vince McMahon hated the American B.A. gimmick - and he wishes they had never done it. So I doubt they'll revisit that particular time in 'Taker's career.... I honestly have no idea where this information came from. I've searched for the source of it and have followed Taker pretty closely (he's my favorite) and I can't figure out when/where this originated. I don't think there is any truth to it. It's become part of fan forum belief or lore I think because some fans originally extrapolated that because the WWE doesn't mention and/or show Taker's ABA persona while he is playing the Deadman gimmick that it somehow is proof that Vince hated the ABA and wish it never happened. It extended Taker's career and he successfully transitioned between the gimmicks with no ill effects. There's really no reason for Vince to hate it now, and the reason for not connecting the ABA gimmick to his current Deadman gimmick are pretty obvious.
|
|
|
Post by Flair Forever on Jan 4, 2015 17:56:50 GMT -5
I had read a few years ago that Vince McMahon hated the American B.A. gimmick - and he wishes they had never done it. So I doubt they'll revisit that particular time in 'Taker's career.... I honestly have no idea where this information came from. I've searched for the source of it and have followed Taker pretty closely (he's my favorite) and I can't figure out when/where this originated. I don't think there is any truth to it. It's become part of fan forum belief or lore I think because some fans originally extrapolated that because the WWE doesn't mention and/or show Taker's ABA persona while he is playing the Deadman gimmick that it somehow is proof that Vince hated the ABA and wish it never happened. It extended Taker's career and he successfully transitioned between the gimmicks with no ill effects. There's really no reason for Vince to hate it now, and the reason for not connecting the ABA gimmick to his current Deadman gimmick are pretty obvious. Source spam (3/24/2012): - Former WWE Creative Team member Andrew Goldstein recently spoke about his time in WWE, and the fact that Vince McMahon does not like hearing about The Undertaker’s ‘American Badass’ gimmick, here is what he had to say…
“It’s a machine,” he explained. “You just have no perception of how much of a well-oiled machine it is and when you step in there it doesn’t stop for you. It’s a freight train. It keeps going. You come in there on your first day. It’s not, ‘Alright, welcome. Let’s get to know this new guy. Let’s get him up to speed.’
“It’s a freight train and you’re just running along side it and you jump in the side car and you’re just along for the ride and you gotta catch up to speed on your own. They’re not stopping to catch you up on, well, when you have a meeting with Vince don’t bring up Undertaker when he was the American Badass because Vince hates that. Nobody tells you that thing, those picky things that Vince or Stephanie and Michael Hayes [don’t like]. There’s no guidebook. Reality was 100 percent different than I thought it was going to be.
“It’s so funny. I brought it up. I was just like, ‘Oh, I love the American Badass gimmick. I loved hearing Undertaker cut actual promos and come down on the motorcycle and come down with contemporary music and be sort of human.’ Bruce Prichard shot me a death look that said don’t ever bring that up in front of Vince because Vince is so protective of Undertaker’s character and mystique. And rightly so, its money. As Triple H has been saying, there’s equity in the mysterious mystique of Undertaker.”
|
|
|
Post by ¡Twist Of Cinnamon! on Jan 4, 2015 17:58:36 GMT -5
This far into his career, what would be the point?
|
|
Deleted
Joined on: May 8, 2024 4:13:02 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2015 18:08:17 GMT -5
I honestly have no idea where this information came from. I've searched for the source of it and have followed Taker pretty closely (he's my favorite) and I can't figure out when/where this originated. I don't think there is any truth to it. It's become part of fan forum belief or lore I think because some fans originally extrapolated that because the WWE doesn't mention and/or show Taker's ABA persona while he is playing the Deadman gimmick that it somehow is proof that Vince hated the ABA and wish it never happened. It extended Taker's career and he successfully transitioned between the gimmicks with no ill effects. There's really no reason for Vince to hate it now, and the reason for not connecting the ABA gimmick to his current Deadman gimmick are pretty obvious. Source spam (3/24/2012): - Former WWE Creative Team member Andrew Goldstein recently spoke about his time in WWE, and the fact that Vince McMahon does not like hearing about The Undertaker’s ‘American Badass’ gimmick, here is what he had to say…
“It’s a machine,” he explained. “You just have no perception of how much of a well-oiled machine it is and when you step in there it doesn’t stop for you. It’s a freight train. It keeps going. You come in there on your first day. It’s not, ‘Alright, welcome. Let’s get to know this new guy. Let’s get him up to speed.’
“It’s a freight train and you’re just running along side it and you jump in the side car and you’re just along for the ride and you gotta catch up to speed on your own. They’re not stopping to catch you up on, well, when you have a meeting with Vince don’t bring up Undertaker when he was the American Badass because Vince hates that. Nobody tells you that thing, those picky things that Vince or Stephanie and Michael Hayes [don’t like]. There’s no guidebook. Reality was 100 percent different than I thought it was going to be.
“It’s so funny. I brought it up. I was just like, ‘Oh, I love the American Badass gimmick. I loved hearing Undertaker cut actual promos and come down on the motorcycle and come down with contemporary music and be sort of human.’ Bruce Prichard shot me a death look that said don’t ever bring that up in front of Vince because Vince is so protective of Undertaker’s character and mystique. And rightly so, its money. As Triple H has been saying, there’s equity in the mysterious mystique of Undertaker.”
Thanks for finding that quote. I've never read that before. It doesn't actually prove that Vince HATED the gimmick and wants to pretend it never happened though. It shows that Goldstein made the assumption that Vince was so protective of the Undertaker's current Darkside gimmick at the time that any writer trying to suggest he do something more human like he did in the ABA days would be shot down immediately. Vince wanted to preserve that mystique and anything that could hinder it was not even considered. It just proves that Vince wanted to keep the two gimmicks as separate entities, not that he actually HATED it and wished it never happened.
|
|
Deleted
Joined on: May 8, 2024 4:13:02 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2015 18:30:04 GMT -5
No, he shouldn't...ABA was a blemish in his otherwise amazing career IMO...
|
|
Deleted
Joined on: May 8, 2024 4:13:02 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2015 18:40:42 GMT -5
No.
|
|
Deleted
Joined on: May 8, 2024 4:13:02 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2015 18:43:40 GMT -5
Not even pointing that out. But if you're going to nitpick one guy for that you may as well nitpick almost every wrestler for having a garish entrance. The entrance isn't an issue. Scaring other wrestlers mid-promo by having someone turn out the lights or scramble the tron is the thing. so....you don't like them selling the storyline or angle? Or selling for the Undertaker's mind games? What's next.. Will you be opposed to them selling the moves in the ring? Injuries? Etc
|
|
|
Post by Next Man’s Knowing Rock on Jan 4, 2015 18:50:16 GMT -5
The entrance isn't an issue. Scaring other wrestlers mid-promo by having someone turn out the lights or scramble the tron is the thing. so....you don't like them selling the storyline or angle? Or selling for the Undertaker's mind games? I'm opposed to "mind games" that consist of getting someone in the production truck to scramble the tron or turn the arena lights out. Or worse, magical powers.
|
|
|
Post by Midnight on Jan 4, 2015 20:40:17 GMT -5
I loved ABA Undertaker but at this point in his career, I don't think it would be a good idea. The Deadman is his most iconic persona.
|
|
Deleted
Joined on: May 8, 2024 4:13:02 GMT -5
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2015 23:55:21 GMT -5
How was ABA Taker any different from DOA Chainz?
|
|
|
Post by k5 on Jan 5, 2015 3:53:30 GMT -5
i'd rather just kind of a mix of the two, if the aba lived in the wild west era.
|
|
|
Post by Himmy! on Jan 5, 2015 13:45:38 GMT -5
I wasn't a big fan of it.
|
|