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Post by Last Trent Barreta Fan on Jun 1, 2015 22:09:43 GMT -5
If it makes her happy, who am I to judge? She's still an Olympian and former Sebring 12-hour Winner, that'll never change. The personality never changes.
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Post by JC Motors on Jun 1, 2015 22:26:33 GMT -5
I think she kind of looks like Capt. Janeway from Voyager, another bad female driver!!! Caitlyn Jenner looks no way like Admiral Kathryn Janeway
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Post by Word™ on Jun 1, 2015 22:45:07 GMT -5
He's still Bruce Jenner.. And he's still a he.
But I guess calling him a her is better than calling him "it".
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2015 23:35:46 GMT -5
Jenner should be in jail for Vehicular Manslaughter. I had no idea that had happened.
I'm all for gender re-assignment surgery, but the fact that she isn't being charged or at least investigated is disgraceful. Celebrities get away with far too much. Whatever, this world needs an operation.
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Post by Tim of thee on Jun 1, 2015 23:36:51 GMT -5
I have a question to those who question the validity of someone's gender. Would you still want to be called by your old name if you changed your name?
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Post by slappy on Jun 1, 2015 23:51:55 GMT -5
Jenner should be in jail for Vehicular Manslaughter. I had no idea that had happened. I'm all for gender re-assignment surgery, but the fact that she isn't being charged or at least investigated is disgraceful. Celebrities get away with far too much. Whatever, this world needs an operation. It is being investigated and TMZ says charges aren't likely.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2015 0:16:16 GMT -5
I'm happy to see someone getting the chance do do something this major to make themselves happy. The whole thing had to have been scary, exciting and a relief all at once.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2015 4:34:45 GMT -5
Well of course she didn't intend on killing that woman. But imagine how that woman's family feels knowing that Ms. Jenner is on the cover of magazines and on tv shows and not behind bars? If I ran over someone you cared about, intentions aside, how would you feel? It's the ol Hollywood double standard News reports say she didn't have a family. The only family she had were estranged step kids who are now trying to cash in on her death. That makes it completely ok then.... He was simultaneously committing two illegal activities (speeding, and texting while driving) and it cost a woman her life. I find it utterly disgraceful that people are praising his behaviour. This isn't someone who has been open about this for years (even if it was only to the people closest to him). He's someone who deceived a woman into getting married to him, and in the process wasted around 25 years of her life without disclosing this to her. And he's someone who has left his children and his step children without a male role model in the process. Drake Bell made a comment on twitter about this yesterday saying something along the lines of "I'm still calling you Bruce", and he's receiving death threats. Bruce Jenner kills a woman, but because he wants to be the opposite gender he's a hero?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2015 5:05:25 GMT -5
News reports say she didn't have a family. The only family she had were estranged step kids who are now trying to cash in on her death. That makes it completely ok then.... He was simultaneously committing two illegal activities (speeding, and texting while driving) and it cost a woman her life. I find it utterly disgraceful that people are praising his behaviour. This isn't someone who has been open about this for years (even if it was only to the people closest to him). He's someone who deceived a woman into getting married to him, and in the process wasted around 25 years of her life without disclosing this to her. And he's someone who has left his children and his step children without a male role model in the process. Drake Bell made a comment on twitter about this yesterday saying something along the lines of "I'm still calling you Bruce", and he's receiving death threats. Bruce Jenner kills a woman, but because he wants to be the opposite gender he's a hero? I have to agree with most of this. The fact that Jenner is not in jail for Vehicular Manslaughter is a joke and shows our celebrity worship in society once again. However, I wouldn't say he deceived the chick, took me a long time to figure out I liked dudes lol and his kids are grown up anyway. I didn't really have a male role model (due to me mum's brainwashing) and I turned out fine. Drake is cool, he meant it as the athlete Bruce Jenner who he called the greatest of all time. I can't dispute that cause I don't follow sports. Still. It should be Vehicular Manslaughter or Reckless Driving or SOMETHING. You can't kill a person and just get away with it! If this was you or me, we'd be in jail, but a celebrity gets to walk away free? How is that fair? How is that justice? Jenner needs to own up to it at least..how do you sit in front of a camera and pose for a magazine knowing you took someone's life? I don't care if the old woman was a crappy person or not loved by anyone, her life was taken and the fact that nothing is appearing to be done is ridiculous..especially if it's true that Jenner was texting and speeding.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2015 5:28:18 GMT -5
That makes it completely ok then.... He was simultaneously committing two illegal activities (speeding, and texting while driving) and it cost a woman her life. I find it utterly disgraceful that people are praising his behaviour. This isn't someone who has been open about this for years (even if it was only to the people closest to him). He's someone who deceived a woman into getting married to him, and in the process wasted around 25 years of her life without disclosing this to her. And he's someone who has left his children and his step children without a male role model in the process. Drake Bell made a comment on twitter about this yesterday saying something along the lines of "I'm still calling you Bruce", and he's receiving death threats. Bruce Jenner kills a woman, but because he wants to be the opposite gender he's a hero? I have to agree with most of this. The fact that Jenner is not in jail for Vehicular Manslaughter is a joke and shows our celebrity worship in society once again. However, I wouldn't say he deceived the chick, took me a long time to figure out I liked dudes lol and his kids are grown up anyway. I didn't really have a male role model (due to me mum's brainwashing) and I turned out fine. Drake is cool, he meant it as the athlete Bruce Jenner who he called the greatest of all time. I can't dispute that cause I don't follow sports. Still. It should be Vehicular Manslaughter or Reckless Driving or SOMETHING. You can't kill a person and just get away with it! If this was you or me, we'd be in jail, but a celebrity gets to walk away free? How is that fair? How is that justice? Jenner needs to own up to it at least..how do you sit in front of a camera and pose for a magazine knowing you took someone's life? I don't care if the old woman was a crappy person or not loved by anyone, her life was taken and the fact that nothing is appearing to be done is ridiculous..especially if it's true that Jenner was texting and speeding. He claims to have known he was transgender since he was like 8. Again, I'd be a lot more understanding of this if he was only finding out now. But it appears to me as though he HAS deceived Kris for all these years. I think having a strong male role model is important, and there are studies out there to support that. 85% of youth prisoners were children born to fatherless homes, and it's been said that they're twice as likely to kill themselves. www.fathermag.com/news/2778-stats.shtmlwww.photius.com/feminocracy/facts_on_fatherless_kids.htmlObviously many people who didn't have a father figure will turn out fine, and this is getting into a separate and much more grey area. But he started a family knowing that he wanted to be a woman. Which regardless of where you fall on the other issue is deceitful.
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Post by T R W on Jun 2, 2015 6:38:40 GMT -5
Boy they say the younger generation is more tolerant and accepting of alternative lifestyles.
I'll preface this by saying, it's fine to have contrary opinions, but if you can not discuss it in a civil and polite manner, then you should not comment here at all.
Also I'll say that in general, I despise the Kardashians, and I am by no means a fan of Jenner though I find Jenner the less offensive of that entire clan.
As far as Jenner's "murder" there is video of the crash. First off, Jenner did not actually strike the victim with his car. Second, video of the accident shows that, while she started the chain reaction of the wreck when changing lanes to avoid cars stopping in front of her by hitting the car in front of her (also not the car that killed the victim), she was not distracted by texting or anything else at the time of the accident. The victim was struck and killed by a completely different vehicle. From all evidence, it was a tragic accident, the kind I see on the way to work every morning. I don't think celebrity status has anything to do with why she isn't in jail. There simply isn't cause or evidence to warrant it.
As far as the gender and name change, whatever makes you happy man. I'm 40 years old. I admit that sometimes drastic changes like this give me an initial uncomfortable feeling. It feels odd, and it's hard for me to understand. But also who am I to say that what someone else is doing is wrong because I don't understand it or that it makes me uncomfortable. I've seen too many things and known too many people to not believe that someone's brain can tell them they are a different gender from what they were born with. It's not like in the 80's Jenner could have even done that, especially without being completely ostracized and demonized. Hell, in the 80's AIDS was still the "gay disease" and the worst thing you could call someone was "gay." Why would someone choose to live a life as filled with hate and controversy as being transgender/gay unless that was who they were? Who are we to tell Jenner that "NO! YOU GOT DEALT YOUR HAND AND NOW YOU'RE STUCK WITH IT."
As far as deceiving his wives, his first wives all admitted that they knew about Jenner's true feelings. They also have said that Kris Jenner knew about them as well, and many believe she thought it was just a "thing" or something she could fix. But she knew. Jenner has also stated she is not attracted to men, but is still and has always been attracted to women. Sure it was a fairly closely kept secret with his close family and friends. And why is that wrong? Look at the amount of hate being received in 2015 for this. So what, coming out with gender identity issues right after winning the Olympics would have been a good thing for her? In what possible way? Multiply the hate and misunderstanding by 10 million. But I also know that many people struggle for decades to realize exactly what their personal feelings are because it differs so greatly from what society tells them is right.
While I understand all of the publicity of this can be annoying, I just don't see how this can be so offensive to people to feel the need to lash out and be hateful about it. Nobody is forcing anyone to read the articles and watch the tv interviews. People like to preach about how tolerant and accepting and loving the Millenials are, but then I come here and see all of the unwarranted vitriol, bile, bigotry, and hate and I wonder how anyone hot the idea that this is true.
Who are we to tell someone that what they are, or what they enjoy is wrong? Just because something challenges what your perception of normal is, doesn't mean that it is wrong.
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Post by CM Poor on Jun 2, 2015 6:40:39 GMT -5
I'm just amazed by all the people coming out of the woodwork like this is the first famous person to have come out as transgender. Maybe I'm just numb to it, or maybe it's the generational gap in my office, but if I have to spend another day listening to 60 year old women stumbling over their hims and hers, I'm probably just going to take the short train and just check out.
Nice knowing you, folks.
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MELO
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Member formerly known as melomano
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Post by MELO on Jun 2, 2015 6:46:51 GMT -5
I think it's a bit of a stretch to say she was deceitful and wasted 25 years of Kris' life. Are you trying to say she didn't love Kris? Caitlyn has admitted to being exclusively attracted to women his entire life. She's a woman but not a heterosexual one it seems. And also, are transgendered people not allowed to want to have families and/with biological children? Don't speak for her children saying she's abandoned them. They have shown full support for her throughout this experience. It's only people completely external to the situation that are seemingly having issues with it.
You know who else is likely to kill themselves? Trans kids. Leelah Alcorn, Ash Haffner, Blake Brockington. It's not any easier coming out as soon as you realize who you really are.
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Post by honeybear 619 on Jun 2, 2015 6:49:17 GMT -5
His new name should be ridiculousness!!!!!!
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Post by CM Poor on Jun 2, 2015 6:51:56 GMT -5
Jesus Christ. I thought humanity was supposed to be intelligent and superior.
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Post by T R W on Jun 2, 2015 6:53:19 GMT -5
His new name should be ridiculousness!!!!!! Please elaborate why they shoukd name themselves after a clip show aired on MTV?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2015 7:09:42 GMT -5
I think it's a bit of a stretch to say she was deceitful and wasted 25 years of Kris' life. Are you trying to say she didn't love Kris? Caitlyn has admitted to being exclusively attracted to women his entire life, and has only until recently identified as asexual. She's a woman but not a heterosexual one it seems. And also, are transgendered people not allowed to want to have families and/with biological children? Don't speak for her children saying she's abandoned them. They have shown full support for her throughout this experience. It's only people completely external to the situation that are seemingly having issues with it. You know who else is likely to kill themselves? Trans kids. Leelah Alcorn, Ash Haffner, Blake Brockington. It's not any easier coming out as soon as you realize who you really are. He may well love Kris. Frankly that's not the issue, or any kind of issue. That doesn't change the fact that he's kept a ridiculously large and life changing secret from his wife of 25+ years that completely affects her. Kris is not a lesbian (at least not to my knowledge), and therefor did not agree to marry a man that wanted to become a woman. The fact that they are now divorced (or in the process of) is evidence enough of this. That people are defending a man that has treated a woman in this way is completely reprehensible. This is an issue of the human being that he is, and how he has treated another human being. He's essentially cheated on her, and lied to her for 25 years. She bore children to a man lying to her during those years. He's just a scumbag, just as any man or woman who cheats (or lies to this degree) on their significant other is. Kris' response was: "Why would you want to be married and have kids if this is what you wanted since you were a little boy? Why would you not explain this all to me?" Which indicates she knew little, if anything of Bruce's desire to be a woman. And feel's that she has been "mistreated" in her marriage. Which is completely just. Apparently he's now entered that group of people that are untouchable and not open to criticism just because of his sexuality (for lack of a better word), which is in itself ass-backwards and the complete opposite of equality for all.
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Post by T R W on Jun 2, 2015 7:16:35 GMT -5
I think it's a bit of a stretch to say she was deceitful and wasted 25 years of Kris' life. Are you trying to say she didn't love Kris? Caitlyn has admitted to being exclusively attracted to women his entire life, and has only until recently identified as asexual. She's a woman but not a heterosexual one it seems. And also, are transgendered people not allowed to want to have families and/with biological children? Don't speak for her children saying she's abandoned them. They have shown full support for her throughout this experience. It's only people completely external to the situation that are seemingly having issues with it. You know who else is likely to kill themselves? Trans kids. Leelah Alcorn, Ash Haffner, Blake Brockington. It's not any easier coming out as soon as you realize who you really are. He may well love Kris. Frankly that's not the issue, or any kind of issue. That doesn't change the fact that he's kept a ridiculously large and life changing secret from his wife of 25+ years that completely affects her. Kris is not a lesbian (at least not to my knowledge), and therefor did not agree to marry a man that wanted to become a woman. The fact that they are now divorced (or in the process of) is evidence enough of this. That people are defending a man that has treated a woman in this way is completely reprehensible. This is an issue of the human being that he is, and how he has treated another human being. He's essentially cheated on her, and lied to her for 25 years. She bore children to a man lying to her during those years. He's just a scumbag, just as any man or woman who cheats (or lies to this degree) on their significant other is. Kris' response was: "Why would you want to be married and have kids if this is what you wanted since you were a little boy? Why would you not explain this all to me?" Which indicates she knew little, if anything of Bruce's desire to be a woman. And feel's that she has been "mistreated" in her marriage. Which is completely just. Apparently he's now entered that group of people that are untouchable and not open to criticism just because of his sexuality (for lack of a better word), which is in itself ass-backwards and the complete opposite of equality for all. Kris knew. Her previous wives knew. Her previous wives had conversations with her about it, and Kris thought it was something she could "fix" or "work with" or was just a "phase."
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2015 7:33:08 GMT -5
He may well love Kris. Frankly that's not the issue, or any kind of issue. That doesn't change the fact that he's kept a ridiculously large and life changing secret from his wife of 25+ years that completely affects her. Kris is not a lesbian (at least not to my knowledge), and therefor did not agree to marry a man that wanted to become a woman. The fact that they are now divorced (or in the process of) is evidence enough of this. That people are defending a man that has treated a woman in this way is completely reprehensible. This is an issue of the human being that he is, and how he has treated another human being. He's essentially cheated on her, and lied to her for 25 years. She bore children to a man lying to her during those years. He's just a scumbag, just as any man or woman who cheats (or lies to this degree) on their significant other is. Kris' response was: "Why would you want to be married and have kids if this is what you wanted since you were a little boy? Why would you not explain this all to me?" Which indicates she knew little, if anything of Bruce's desire to be a woman. And feel's that she has been "mistreated" in her marriage. Which is completely just. Apparently he's now entered that group of people that are untouchable and not open to criticism just because of his sexuality (for lack of a better word), which is in itself ass-backwards and the complete opposite of equality for all. Kris knew. Her previous wives knew. Her previous wives had conversations with her about it, and Kris thought it was something she could "fix" or "work with" or was just a "phase." "But Kris told Vanity Fair that she believes that is an exaggeration. “He told me he had done hormones back in the early 80s .. He never really explained it. There wasn’t a gender issue. Nobody mentioned a gender issue. Somebody mentioned that at one point in his life liked to dress up,” she retorted." Kris didn't know that he wanted to be a woman.
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Post by T R W on Jun 2, 2015 8:04:31 GMT -5
Kris knew. Her previous wives knew. Her previous wives had conversations with her about it, and Kris thought it was something she could "fix" or "work with" or was just a "phase." "But Kris told Vanity Fair that she believes that is an exaggeration. “He told me he had done hormones back in the early 80s .. He never really explained it. There wasn’t a gender issue. Nobody mentioned a gender issue. Somebody mentioned that at one point in his life liked to dress up,” she retorted." Kris didn't know that he wanted to be a woman. To be fair, she didn't really know she wanted to be a woman then either. She knew she had taken hormones and had grown b cup size breasts. She knew she had plastic surgery to look more feminine, and continued to support the plastic surgery throughout the years. She knew that she liked to wear women's clothing and told her she wasn't allowed to do it at home. It's really just the last few years that she had the confidence and self-awareness that she actually wanted to be a woman. That is not unusual. But to pain Kris Jenner like some sort of victim is to severely underestimate how shrewd and intelligent she is. While she may not have know the complete full extent of her longing to be a woman (and neither did Caitlyn) she definitely knew she was not getting involved in a traditional marriage. Despite what she tries to portray on reality TV, she was not blindsided by this. Honestly, anyone who has seen Jenner on tv the last 10 years is not blindsided by this. Caitlyn could have expressed her desires better, but it also stands to reason that she did not completely understand or come to terms with them until recently either. But Kris Jenner is anything but a victim.
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