TheBadGuyChico
POSSIBLE BAD TRADER
Joined on: Dec 3, 2012 10:34:41 GMT -5
Posts: 1,715
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Post by TheBadGuyChico on Sept 20, 2015 18:31:48 GMT -5
Now in a nutshell I think most of you will agree that the wrestlers from let's say the 80s and 90s could cut much better promos and probably work a crowd psychologically speaking.
On the other side of the token, I think a lot of you will agree that the world are on average today and overall wrestling ability on average is better than any other era.
Now from a strictly business perspective, which one of these strengths is more conducive to making money?
I see so many people into these Indy mold wrestlers and business isn't exactly booming, so what is the long term thought process on how that mold of wrestler will be able to last at the top of WWE?
Historically wrestling's best showman have drawn the most money, so why are we seeing an Indy invasion of sorts?
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Post by Next Man’s Yeeter on Sept 20, 2015 18:41:21 GMT -5
Historically wrestling's best showman have drawn the most money, so why are we seeing an Indy invasion of sorts? Because of the WWE's monopoly. There's no WCW to be a second-tier real promotion. There's just WWE and indies, so that's where the wind has blown. Plus, WWE's booking strategy these days is just booking overly long matches with no purpose other than to fill time. And crucially, the fandom was different in the eighties. There wasn't the whole "I hate you Vince, I'm gonna go against everything" culture then that there is now in TV taping crowds. It's nigh-on impossible now to work the crowd the way the old-school guys could. Kevin Owens, for example, I would say is as good a villain as Rick Rude or Million Dollar Man -- but because of the era he's in, he struggles to be able to get any heel heat. |
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Post by Sizzle on Sept 20, 2015 19:02:40 GMT -5
Historically wrestling's best showman have drawn the most money, so why are we seeing an Indy invasion of sorts? Because of the WWE's monopoly. There's no WCW to be a second-tier real promotion. There's just WWE and indies, so that's where the wind has blown. Plus, WWE's booking strategy these days is just booking overly long matches with no purpose other than to fill time. And crucially, the fandom was different in the eighties. There wasn't the whole "I hate you Vince, I'm gonna go against everything" culture then that there is now in TV taping crowds. It's nigh-on impossible now to work the crowd the way the old-school guys could. Kevin Owens, for example, I would say is as good a villain as Rick Rude or Million Dollar Man -- but because of the era he's in, he struggles to be able to get any heel heat. The fans ruined wrestling. Well, not ruined, but they changed it, they killed it along with the Internet. |
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Post by Flair Forever on Sept 20, 2015 19:16:11 GMT -5
What is lacking in the last decade or so is a hot wrestler/angle to catch on & get the mainstream interested in wrestling....
For some reason - WWE's team of writers haven't been able to catch lightning in a bottle & replicate the organic success of Hulk Hogan..... "Stone Cold" Steve Austin..... The New World Order.... The Rock.....
They came real close with Daniel Bryan..... but poor booking & Bryan's persistent injuries prevented his story from reaching his full potential.
The "indy guys" you speak of seem to have trouble connecting with the audience - most likely due to the crapty material they're handed by WWE... and the "PG" constraints....
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Deleted
Joined on: May 19, 2024 6:36:20 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2015 19:32:26 GMT -5
What is lacking in the last decade or so is a hot wrestler/angle to catch on & get the mainstream interested in wrestling....
For some reason - WWE's team of writers haven't been able to catch lightning in a bottle & replicate the organic success of Hulk Hogan..... "Stone Cold" Steve Austin..... The New World Order.... The Rock..... They came real close with Daniel Bryan..... but poor booking & Bryan's persistent injuries prevented his story from reaching his full potential. The "indy guys" you speak of seem to have trouble connecting with the audience - most likely due to the crapty material they're handed by WWE... and the "PG" constraints....  It was right there. They had him. |
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Post by Flair Forever on Sept 20, 2015 19:37:38 GMT -5
What is lacking in the last decade or so is a hot wrestler/angle to catch on & get the mainstream interested in wrestling....
For some reason - WWE's team of writers haven't been able to catch lightning in a bottle & replicate the organic success of Hulk Hogan..... "Stone Cold" Steve Austin..... The New World Order.... The Rock..... They came real close with Daniel Bryan..... but poor booking & Bryan's persistent injuries prevented his story from reaching his full potential. The "indy guys" you speak of seem to have trouble connecting with the audience - most likely due to the crapty material they're handed by WWE... and the "PG" constraints.... It was right there. They had him. Yea, I forgot one..... long day. |
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Deleted
Joined on: May 19, 2024 6:36:20 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2015 19:38:49 GMT -5
It was right there. They had him. Yea, I forgot one..... long day. Hey, been there. Don't blame you. Still baffles me how they screwed that angle up. |
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PVA
Main Eventer
Too hot to handle and too cold to hold
Joined on: Apr 12, 2004 15:33:20 GMT -5
Posts: 3,120
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Post by PVA on Sept 20, 2015 20:31:01 GMT -5
Wrestling ability as far as athelticism is better now but wrestling as far as telling a story in ring/psychology is probably the worst of any era.
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Post by TheNinthCloud on Sept 20, 2015 21:51:42 GMT -5
There are still guys who can tell a story in a match, just outside of the WWE.
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Post by BØRNS on Sept 20, 2015 22:12:17 GMT -5
Telling a story is how you make money, and there are many ways to tell that story.
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Post by theMOESIAH on Sept 20, 2015 22:56:27 GMT -5
Because of the WWE's monopoly. There's no WCW to be a second-tier real promotion. There's just WWE and indies, so that's where the wind has blown. Plus, WWE's booking strategy these days is just booking overly long matches with no purpose other than to fill time. And crucially, the fandom was different in the eighties. There wasn't the whole "I hate you Vince, I'm gonna go against everything" culture then that there is now in TV taping crowds. It's nigh-on impossible now to work the crowd the way the old-school guys could. Kevin Owens, for example, I would say is as good a villain as Rick Rude or Million Dollar Man -- but because of the era he's in, he struggles to be able to get any heel heat. The fans ruined wrestling. Well, not ruined, but they changed it, they killed it along with the Internet. I think the WWE sucking almost consistently since the InVasion angle has ruined wrestling. People didn't stop watching because they dislike the fans. They stopped watching because it's the same old crap every time. |
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Post by theMOESIAH on Sept 20, 2015 22:58:49 GMT -5
Yea, I forgot one..... long day. Hey, been there. Don't blame you. Still baffles me how they screwed that angle up. You're surprised? Really?  |
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Post by BCizzle on Sept 20, 2015 23:02:00 GMT -5
Hey, been there. Don't blame you. Still baffles me how they screwed that angle up. What, you mean when Kevin Nash power bombed him and Alberto Del Rio beat him, even though Punk was crazy over with the fans? Just so it could lead to a lame ass Nash vs Triple H match? Just so it was all about Triple H, always and forever? Many people on here would tell you, it's just part of the story, wait and see what happens next! That's what they told me. You guys get all whiny and want your indy heroes to have instant success, but the WWE knows what they are doing. The whole angle with Punk quitting and going to UFC is going to be great when he comes back to the WWE, and you guys will see what wonderful long term booking they have. Sure, you might think they blew it when CM Punk was super over, and again when Daniel Bryan was super over, just because they are stubborn, but it was all part of the story, wait and see! |
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Post by King Richius on Sept 20, 2015 23:15:22 GMT -5
Historically wrestling's best showman have drawn the most money, so why are we seeing an Indy invasion of sorts? I think you may not be giving enough credit to the true breakout superstars. There are very few people who have the right combination of charisma, athleticism, and desire to become huge draws like Hogan, Piper, Austin, and Rock. Some have come close but it either didn't last or they suffered other career related setbacks. The "indy guys" are some of the best in ring talent and put on a great show that appeals to wrestling fans. Its good to see them getting their shot in the WWE on the big stage. I say sit back and enjoy their work while we wait for the next great star to appear. We don't know who he is or when he will arrive, but he is coming. When he does appear, wrestling will probably experience another brief 2-4 year surge in popularity as it did in the mid 80s and again in the late 90s. |
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Post by King Bálor (CM)™ on Sept 20, 2015 23:37:13 GMT -5
What is lacking in the last decade or so is a hot wrestler/angle to catch on & get the mainstream interested in wrestling....
For some reason - WWE's team of writers haven't been able to catch lightning in a bottle & replicate the organic success of Hulk Hogan..... "Stone Cold" Steve Austin..... The New World Order.... The Rock..... They came real close with Daniel Bryan..... but poor booking & Bryan's persistent injuries prevented his story from reaching his full potential. The "indy guys" you speak of seem to have trouble connecting with the audience - most likely due to the crapty material they're handed by WWE... and the "PG" constraints.... It was right there. They had him. And then he threw a hissy fit, broke his contract and pissed on pro wrestling. Good riddance. WWE did drop the ball on the Summer of Punk....no doubt. Between poor writing and poor direction, they ruined the hottest angle in pro wrestling in the past 15 years. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2015 1:57:53 GMT -5
Because it isn't 1990 anymore. People don't care about showmanship. People want to see good wrestling. Guys like Sami Zayn, Kevin Owens, Finn Balor, Johnny Gargano, Apollo Crews, Tommasso Ciampa, Adrian Neville and more are all fantastic wrestlers and don't need to be good on the mic (even though Kev is a promo god) because their wrestling does all the talking for them.
No, the indies isn't killing the mainstream.
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Post by attitudesback on Sept 21, 2015 4:06:49 GMT -5
Because it isn't 1990 anymore. People don't care about showmanship. People want to see good wrestling. Guys like Sami Zayn, Kevin Owens, Finn Balor, Johnny Gargano, Apollo Crews, Tommasso Ciampa, Adrian Neville and more are all fantastic wrestlers and don't need to be good on the mic (even though Kev is a promo god) because their wrestling does all the talking for them. No, the indies isn't killing the mainstream. Yes, yes they do. The reason WWE is failing right now is because they have no stars. You can't solely rely on wrestling ability. These guys have to sell their fights and if they can't talk for crap, no one will care. Austin, The Rock and more were all great/good on the mic and had that charisma. Just being good in the ring might work for these 400-500 seater places but for the WWE, they need well-rounded guys who can do both and do it well. The wrestling alone is nowhere near the only thing people are interested in. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2015 6:02:34 GMT -5
Hey, been there. Don't blame you. Still baffles me how they screwed that angle up. You're surprised? Really? Maybe less baffled and more, "Learn from your mistakes." |
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TheBadGuyChico
POSSIBLE BAD TRADER
Joined on: Dec 3, 2012 10:34:41 GMT -5
Posts: 1,715
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Post by TheBadGuyChico on Sept 21, 2015 11:40:50 GMT -5
Because it isn't 1990 anymore. People don't care about showmanship. People want to see good wrestling. Guys like Sami Zayn, Kevin Owens, Finn Balor, Johnny Gargano, Apollo Crews, Tommasso Ciampa, Adrian Neville and more are all fantastic wrestlers and don't need to be good on the mic (even though Kev is a promo god) because their wrestling does all the talking for them. No, the indies isn't killing the mainstream. Yes, yes they do. The reason WWE is failing right now is because they have no stars. You can't solely rely on wrestling ability. These guys have to sell their fights and if they can't talk for crap, no one will care. Austin, The Rock and more were all great/good on the mic and had that charisma. Just being good in the ring might work for these 400-500 seater places but for the WWE, they need well-rounded guys who can do both and do it well. The wrestling alone is nowhere near the only thing people are interested in. Thank you, this appears to be lost on some of the Indy fanboys around here. Wrestling will never be the key variable in the WWE or any other mainstream company doing great business. Meh, i say let the IWC have their time. Let them have Owens, Balor, Rollins, all in top spots for the next 3-5 years and lets see how the company is doing financially. Lets see if these guys and their ringwork take the WWE to the next boom period. I smell some of the worst years in wrestling history with these guys at the helm, but if i'm proven wrong i'll gladly say so. |
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Post by attitudesback on Sept 21, 2015 11:52:58 GMT -5
Yes, yes they do. The reason WWE is failing right now is because they have no stars. You can't solely rely on wrestling ability. These guys have to sell their fights and if they can't talk for crap, no one will care. Austin, The Rock and more were all great/good on the mic and had that charisma. Just being good in the ring might work for these 400-500 seater places but for the WWE, they need well-rounded guys who can do both and do it well. The wrestling alone is nowhere near the only thing people are interested in. Thank you, this appears to be lost on some of the Indy fanboys around here. Wrestling will never be the key variable in the WWE or any other mainstream company doing great business. Meh, i say let the IWC have their time. Let them have Owens, Balor, Rollins, all in top spots for the next 3-5 years and lets see how the company is doing financially. Lets see if these guys and their ringwork take the WWE to the next boom period. I smell some of the worst years in wrestling history with these guys at the helm, but if i'm proven wrong i'll gladly say so. Completely agree. If you can't sell a fight, no one will care. Judging by Raw's ratings, no one does care. Who knows if the WWE can create another boom period, but they need something and they need it soon. |
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