Captain McKay
Main Eventer
WF 15+ Year Member But all out of badges so this is not one
Joined on: Jul 13, 2002 14:19:45 GMT -5
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Post by Captain McKay on Nov 9, 2015 12:45:46 GMT -5
Hey all -
So I just uploaded a figure review on YouTube and decided to try something new. I figured there are plenty of reviews on YouTube for figures, so I'd add something extra and explain the back history of the figure in question. For the first time I tried it, I decided to look at Undertaker in 1999, when the Ministry was around.
I think this is cool to post here, since the video a lot of opinion on the actual WWE and the state of Undertaker in 1999, with a bit of action figure review in the beginning. But if it's not cool for this board, the mod can obviously delete it. I just figured it could spark up some different opinions on the classic board than it would on the Mattel board where people are seemingly younger and not all familiar with the Attitude Era stuff from first-hand experience. Interested to hear people's opinions!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2015 13:09:54 GMT -5
Watched this last night.
Very well done. As usual. I like the new figure review/gimmick review combo.
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Post by ThugSuperstar on Nov 10, 2015 18:34:26 GMT -5
Very good review, although I respectfully disagree. The buildup to Undertaker forming The Ministry was shown in vignettes on RAW just about every week - you saw The Acolytes officially join, and then over the span of a few weeks you saw Mideon get abducted and transformed into Mideon. It was a week-to-week process because they wanted to keep The Undertaker off of TV and have a slow build up to the unveiling of The Ministry Of Darkness. I also thought the satanic elements they started to introduce into Undertaker's character beginning in 1998 were very interesting and helped revitalize him and make him more interesting. The way The Corporate Ministry dissolved was always a pet peeve of mine, but there were a number of other random things that happened that year that had absolutely no explanation behind them. And I think they were building to something bigger with Big Show and Taker's alliance, but it was cut short because Undertaker needed to have hip (or knee?) surgery that kept him out until the following May.
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Captain McKay
Main Eventer
WF 15+ Year Member But all out of badges so this is not one
Joined on: Jul 13, 2002 14:19:45 GMT -5
Posts: 4,993
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Post by Captain McKay on Nov 11, 2015 0:31:52 GMT -5
Very good review, although I respectfully disagree. The buildup to Undertaker forming The Ministry was shown in vignettes on RAW just about every week - you saw The Acolytes officially join, and then over the span of a few weeks you saw Mideon get abducted and transformed into Mideon. It was a week-to-week process because they wanted to keep The Undertaker off of TV and have a slow build up to the unveiling of The Ministry Of Darkness. I also thought the satanic elements they started to introduce into Undertaker's character beginning in 1998 were very interesting and helped revitalize him and make him more interesting. The way The Corporate Ministry dissolved was always a pet peeve of mine, but there were a number of other random things that happened that year that had absolutely no explanation behind them. And I think they were building to something bigger with Big Show and Taker's alliance, but it was cut short because Undertaker needed to have hip (or knee?) surgery that kept him out until the following May. You do have a great point about the buildup. The Acolytes kidnapping Dennis Knight and all that was interesting, if only for how different it was. I guess the whole Ministry thing would be interesting if there wasn't SO much other stuff going on at the time with Austin/Vince, Mankind/Rock, and all the other DX/Corporation stuff that was rampant at the time. Then the Corporate Ministry just kind of dissolved, and Undertaker kind of faded into obscurity as HHH became more primed for stardom. I agree though, that was FAR from the only unexplained thing about that time. As for Undertaker and Big Show, they may have thought it could work, but Big Show was still pretty green at this point (for WWF standards) and Undertaker's promos about leaving him in the desert to make clothing out of reptiles didn't help their ridiculousness. I think the Ministry started out as a good idea (if not WAY over the top) but then was quickly undermined by the Vince/Higher Power thing. It's not the Satanic stuff that was a problem in itself; moreso the way they used it and how silly they kind of made it all seem. Thanks for the comments, man. Glad you checked the video out! |
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Post by ThugSuperstar on Nov 11, 2015 0:52:39 GMT -5
Very good review, although I respectfully disagree. The buildup to Undertaker forming The Ministry was shown in vignettes on RAW just about every week - you saw The Acolytes officially join, and then over the span of a few weeks you saw Mideon get abducted and transformed into Mideon. It was a week-to-week process because they wanted to keep The Undertaker off of TV and have a slow build up to the unveiling of The Ministry Of Darkness. I also thought the satanic elements they started to introduce into Undertaker's character beginning in 1998 were very interesting and helped revitalize him and make him more interesting. The way The Corporate Ministry dissolved was always a pet peeve of mine, but there were a number of other random things that happened that year that had absolutely no explanation behind them. And I think they were building to something bigger with Big Show and Taker's alliance, but it was cut short because Undertaker needed to have hip (or knee?) surgery that kept him out until the following May. You do have a great point about the buildup. The Acolytes kidnapping Dennis Knight and all that was interesting, if only for how different it was. I guess the whole Ministry thing would be interesting if there wasn't SO much other stuff going on at the time with Austin/Vince, Mankind/Rock, and all the other DX/Corporation stuff that was rampant at the time. Then the Corporate Ministry just kind of dissolved, and Undertaker kind of faded into obscurity as HHH became more primed for stardom. I agree though, that was FAR from the only unexplained thing about that time. As for Undertaker and Big Show, they may have thought it could work, but Big Show was still pretty green at this point (for WWF standards) and Undertaker's promos about leaving him in the desert to make clothing out of reptiles didn't help their ridiculousness. I think the Ministry started out as a good idea (if not WAY over the top) but then was quickly undermined by the Vince/Higher Power thing. It's not the Satanic stuff that was a problem in itself; moreso the way they used it and how silly they kind of made it all seem. Thanks for the comments, man. Glad you checked the video out! I agree with that, The Ministry could've - and should've - been much bigger than it turned out to be. A large part of that was Russo's short-sighted booking, and the other part of it was Taker's health not being great in 1999. Taker's WWF Title victory at Over The Edge that year was also supposed to be a bigger deal than it turned out to be, for the obvious reason that you went into in the video. I do wonder at times if Owen's death made them pull back on some of the satanic stuff that they were doing with Taker at the time. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2015 0:52:53 GMT -5
Still better than ABA Taker. IMO.
That run was putrid.
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Post by ThugSuperstar on Nov 11, 2015 1:02:37 GMT -5
Still better than ABA Taker. IMO. That run was putrid. I definitely agree. That was easily the lowest point of Taker's career for me. I really don't get why so many people loved that era. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2015 13:12:08 GMT -5
Still better than ABA Taker. IMO. I really don't get why so many people loved that era. vs Kurt Angle @ SSeries 2000 6 man HIAC vs HHH @ WM17 vs RVD at Vengeance 2001(?) vs Flair @ WM18 vs Lesnar HIAC and plenty more aside. But that's just me..... |
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Nov 11, 2015 13:57:56 GMT -5
Still better than ABA Taker. IMO. That run was putrid. I definitely agree. That was easily the lowest point of Taker's career for me. I really don't get why so many people loved that era. I loathed the ABA Undertaker. It was so sad to think that within 1 year he went from The Lord of Darkness to some guy who belonged in the DOA. The gimmick was stupid and didn't make any sense either because it didn't represent The Undertaker at all.
It was 3 years of Takers career I would rather forget.
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Captain McKay
Main Eventer
WF 15+ Year Member But all out of badges so this is not one
Joined on: Jul 13, 2002 14:19:45 GMT -5
Posts: 4,993
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Post by Captain McKay on Nov 11, 2015 14:45:36 GMT -5
Looking back, ABA Taker has NOT aged well. At least the Ministry was a logical transition from where he was in 1998. I will say, though, his Big Evil stuff I did like. The veteran commanding respect from younger guys, while getting some great matches out of them in the process, that I dug.
Side note - I think Austin vs. Undertaker with Flair as the guest ref (not sure of the show, circa 2002 I believe) was their best match.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2015 16:53:55 GMT -5
vs Kurt Angle @ SSeries 2000 6 man HIAC vs HHH @ WM17 vs RVD at Vengeance 2001(?) vs Flair @ WM18 vs Lesnar HIAC and plenty more aside. But that's just me..... I agree he had some good matches. I actually loved his heel Hardcore Champion reign. I just hated the gimmick. Especially when he was doing the "it's my yard" crap. That was the worst. |
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Nov 11, 2015 17:20:28 GMT -5
vs Kurt Angle @ SSeries 2000 6 man HIAC vs HHH @ WM17 vs RVD at Vengeance 2001(?) vs Flair @ WM18 vs Lesnar HIAC and plenty more aside. But that's just me..... He had some good matches but the bad outweighed the good. He was beyond awful in most of 2003 and during the Invasion angle. Anyway, I agree with Bash. The gimmick just sucked. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2015 10:07:29 GMT -5
to hell with all you Goddamn Deadman nerds!!!! I loved his ABA run!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2015 21:56:48 GMT -5
to hell with all you Goddamn Deadman nerds!!!! I loved his ABA run!!!! I don't get the hate either. ABA is and always will be my favorite incarnation. Even thought Ministry UT gave us one of the greatest sleeper matches ever against Ken Shamrock at Backlash 99. A definite precursor to the type of matches he would go on to have against Angle |
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Post by PJ on Nov 15, 2015 9:20:41 GMT -5
to hell with all you Goddamn Deadman nerds!!!! I loved his ABA run!!!! BOO!...HISS!...BOO!...Did I mention...BOO!...HISS!...BOO! I hated the ABA gimmick. I didn't have any issues with his matches...but he was the F'n DEADMAN! And the ABA gimmick wearing leather pants and riding on a motorcycle had nothing to do with the Undertaker character! To me my favorite era will always be his first years in the grey gloves. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2015 9:22:15 GMT -5
to hell with all you Goddamn Deadman nerds!!!! I loved his ABA run!!!! BOO!...HISS!...BOO!...Did I mention...BOO!...HISS!...BOO! I hated the ABA gimmick. I didn't have any issues with his matches...but he was the F'n DEADMAN! And the ABA gimmick wearing leather pants and riding on a motorcycle had nothing to do with the Undertaker character! To me my favorite era will always be his first years in the grey gloves. To hell with you too then!!! Lol!!! |
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Post by PJ on Nov 15, 2015 9:29:26 GMT -5
BOO!...HISS!...BOO!...Did I mention...BOO!...HISS!...BOO! I hated the ABA gimmick. I didn't have any issues with his matches...but he was the F'n DEADMAN! And the ABA gimmick wearing leather pants and riding on a motorcycle had nothing to do with the Undertaker character! To me my favorite era will always be his first years in the grey gloves. To hell with you too then!!! Lol!!! How DARE You! lol And to think I was thinking of taking an hour trip up to an Ollie's store that I saw the basic purple gloved Taker about a month ago!  |
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Post by cordless2016 on Nov 15, 2015 10:15:38 GMT -5
to hell with all you Goddamn Deadman nerds!!!! I loved his ABA run!!!! This. I've been rewatching all of SD from Lesnar/Hogan to WM20 and Taker was doing great things during that time. When he first became the ABA I feel it was a little awkward, but by the brand split Taker had the character down and had taken a lot of weight off as well so his in ring work greatly improved. He was putting on entertaining matches with Lesnar, Angle, Cena, Benoit, etc... and worked to make guys like Matt Hardy and A-Train relevant (Taker was a big reason why Matt Hary V.1 started to get over). Going to the ABA was a necessary transition for Taker. The WWE had moved away from the cartoon characters and Taker had done the deadman for 10 years. He needed a change. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2015 11:53:38 GMT -5
To hell with you too then!!! Lol!!! How DARE You! lol And to think I was thinking of taking an hour trip up to an Ollie's store that I saw the basic purple gloved Taker about a month ago! I see...... Maybe ABA Taker wasn't so great.... LOL |
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