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Post by Halloween King on Jan 3, 2016 13:19:54 GMT -5
I have to start by admitting I havnt watched wwe since around 2006. I do still buy the figures though and I read posts online so I realize that Divas have become a big part of the show. My question is why? Why is Divas wrestling popular? Things I read online make it seem like guys actually watch for the match quality, which is a foreign concept to me. To me females in wrestling should purely be for eye candy.
I just feel like womens wrestling is a proven loser. WOW, GLOW, it just seems like when ever Women's wrestling is put on television at a national level the promotion fails.
I should just say that I have nothing against female athletes. But the thing is I feel women should not have to "bump". Im sure some women love to wrestle, and im sure some would rather get a nice paycheck just for being a female manager/valet.
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Post by The Yes Man on Jan 3, 2016 13:21:21 GMT -5
Because some of the women to come out of NXT, such as Sasha Banks or Becky Lynch, are more talented than 95% of the male roster.
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Jan 3, 2016 13:21:54 GMT -5
This thread isn't going to go well.
The reason women's wrestling has become so popular lately is because Triple H thinks the opposite of the way you do. He took the talented women and made them, for the most part, as much of an attraction as the men. He didn't see them as "eye candy". He saw them as equal performers and the crowd responded when they put on great matches.
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Post by Halloween King on Jan 3, 2016 13:23:48 GMT -5
This thread isn't going to go well. The reason women's wrestling has become so popular lately is because Triple H thinks the opposite of the way you do. He took the talented women and made them, for the most part, as much of an attraction as the men. He didn't see them as "eye candy". He saw them as equal performers and the crowd responded when they put on great matches. I also fear the thread might go south. You mention that HHH thinks the women are talented... that's fair. BUT does that also mean that the male side of the roster is untalented or too light on members?
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Post by Planktung on Jan 3, 2016 13:27:21 GMT -5
If you stopped watching in 2006, then you would have been around to see Trish and Lita main event RAW in 2004. You know what women can do when placed in the spotlight and allowed to flourish with a legitimate storyline and characters for someone to care for. It shouldn't be a question, then, that over a decade later, other women were able to accomplish the same feat.
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Jan 3, 2016 13:27:39 GMT -5
This thread isn't going to go well. The reason women's wrestling has become so popular lately is because Triple H thinks the opposite of the way you do. He took the talented women and made them, for the most part, as much of an attraction as the men. He didn't see them as "eye candy". He saw them as equal performers and the crowd responded when they put on great matches. I also fear the thread might go south. You mention that HHH thinks the women are talented... that's fair. BUT does that also mean that the male side of the roster is untalented or too light on members? Right now, in NXT both the male and female star power is a bit down. However, when the girls started being showcased, they had a lot of high drawing guys. It seemed like HHH found a way to kind of make them equal. Like, Sasha Banks and Charlotte main eventing a show in NXT was the same as Finn Balor headlining with Samoa Joe for the most part. It wasn't because some of the guys weren't big enough stars, it was because they were both properly built up.
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Post by Halloween King on Jan 3, 2016 13:31:45 GMT -5
I also fear the thread might go south. You mention that HHH thinks the women are talented... that's fair. BUT does that also mean that the male side of the roster is untalented or too light on members? Right now, in NXT both the male and female star power is a bit down. However, when the girls started being showcased, they had a lot of high drawing guys. It seemed like HHH found a way to kind of make them equal. Like, Sasha Banks and Charlotte main eventing a show in NXT was the same as Finn Balor headlining with Samoa Joe for the most part. It wasn't because some of the guys weren't big enough stars, it was because they were both properly built up. So you're telling me that HHH found a way to showcase women's wrestling with it being a failure. HHH has succeeded where other national "all women's" promotions have failed? Also how long has women's wrestling been featured so heavily on wwe tv?
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Jan 3, 2016 13:55:32 GMT -5
Right now, in NXT both the male and female star power is a bit down. However, when the girls started being showcased, they had a lot of high drawing guys. It seemed like HHH found a way to kind of make them equal. Like, Sasha Banks and Charlotte main eventing a show in NXT was the same as Finn Balor headlining with Samoa Joe for the most part. It wasn't because some of the guys weren't big enough stars, it was because they were both properly built up. So you're telling me that HHH found a way to showcase women's wrestling with it being a failure. HHH has succeeded where other national "all women's" promotions have failed? Also how long has women's wrestling been featured so heavily on wwe tv? Triple H found a way to showcase women's wrestling as a success. I wouldn't say every all women's promotions have failed. There's SHIMMER, which has been around for ten years. They aren't nationally televised, but they're survived a lot longer than most promotions. NXT started making the women a big deal in 2013. Then, on the NXT live specials on the WWE Network, the women went out and stole the show constantly. It hit a point where, in August 2015, NXT TakeOver: Brooklyn sold out the Barclays Center with a women's match co-main eventing. NXT did the same number of fans with two women in the co-main event as SummerSlam the night after with Brock, Undertaker and Cena atop the card.
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Jan 3, 2016 14:02:51 GMT -5
So you're telling me that HHH found a way to showcase women's wrestling with it being a failure. HHH has succeeded where other national "all women's" promotions have failed? Also how long has women's wrestling been featured so heavily on wwe tv? Triple H found a way to showcase women's wrestling as a success. I wouldn't say every all women's promotions have failed. There's SHIMMER, which has been around for ten years. They aren't nationally televised, but they're survived a lot longer than most promotions. NXT started making the women a big deal in 2013. Then, on the NXT live specials on the WWE Network, the women went out and stole the show constantly. It hit a point where, in August 2015, NXT TakeOver: Brooklyn sold out the Barclays Center with a women's match co-main eventing. NXT did the same number of fans with two women in the co-main event as SummerSlam the night after with Brock, Undertaker and Cena atop the card. But that all happened in NXT. Inside a WWE ring on a WWE show is a different story for the ladies sadly. I have seen Sasha in NXT and she wrestled a whole lot better there than she does on Raw or Smackdown. I always felt that if the ladies who want to wrestle, just go to NXT and wrestle there. The ladies who want to be on Total Divas and be a reality star, stay on the WWE TV and wrestle there. That would be the smart thing for Vince to have happen. Then everyone can at least get enjoyment out of it. The lady wrestlers/divas, and the fans themselves.
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Post by Halloween King on Jan 3, 2016 14:04:50 GMT -5
If you stopped watching in 2006, then you would have been around to see Trish and Lita main event RAW in 2004. You know what women can do when placed in the spotlight and allowed to flourish with a legitimate storyline and characters for someone to care for. It shouldn't be a question, then, that over a decade later, other women were able to accomplish the same feat. The funny thing is that Women's wrestling is the reason I stopped watching wwe. I didnt like the show wwe was putting on in general but I would still watch the shows and buy the ppvs and dvds. Up until the Wrestlemania where Mickie James had a match with..(I Forgot who). In the match Mickie James did a thing where she touched the other girl and then she licked her hand. Later on wwe edited that out of the dvd. That was the last straw for me. I can understand why they would edit that out of a tv show, but the dvd? I paid good money for the dvd and in exchange I get a watered down version of what happened?
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jakksking1
Main Eventer
Joined on: Feb 2, 2011 14:45:41 GMT -5
Posts: 2,843
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Post by jakksking1 on Jan 3, 2016 14:16:50 GMT -5
Find Bayley/ Sasha from NXT Brooklyn and watch it, that will answer your questions better than anyone in here can
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Post by TheSystem 1.5 on Jan 3, 2016 14:23:30 GMT -5
If you stopped watching in 2006, then you would have been around to see Trish and Lita main event RAW in 2004. You know what women can do when placed in the spotlight and allowed to flourish with a legitimate storyline and characters for someone to care for. It shouldn't be a question, then, that over a decade later, other women were able to accomplish the same feat. The funny thing is that Women's wrestling is the reason I stopped watching wwe. I didnt like the show wwe was putting on in general but I would still watch the shows and buy the ppvs and dvds. Up until the Wrestlemania where Mickie James had a match with..(I Forgot who). In the match Mickie James did a thing where she touched the other girl and then she licked her hand. Later on wwe edited that out of the dvd. That was the last straw for me. I can understand why they would edit that out of a tv show, but the dvd? I paid good money for the dvd and in exchange I get a watered down version of what happened? It was against Trish...
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Hitman Bono
Main Eventer
WF 10 Year Member
The Sunday Jeff of it all...
Joined on: Apr 2, 2002 23:16:46 GMT -5
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Post by Hitman Bono on Jan 3, 2016 15:09:22 GMT -5
What's going on is that instead of teaching the women how to "work" (which means to go out with a general idea of what they are going to do. Working means you know the finish, maybe a few highspots, and how long you are going to be out there. Working means listening to the crowd and organically going through your shine, heat, hope, and comeback spots.) ,they are teaching them how to "DDP work" (which means to follow a script to the T. Nothing is organic this way, but to 99% of the audience there is not a difference.). So, the women in developmental are getting REALLY good at being comfortable with the script. Not mulking up their minds with the intricacies of "working" frees them up to come across as more fluid. Instead of worrying about the crowd, they just have to worry about hitting their cues. Now, in developmental the women are given 10-20 minutes to do these things. Another BIG part is that they have very talented agents working with them. If they were on the main roster, these agents would get heat for the things they let the women do (because the WWE management are very fickle people. If you aren't in the main event and you get over, either through your work or your character you are punished. Zack Ryder, Dolph Ziggler, Harry Smith, Carlito all found this out the hard way) ,but since they're not slaves to the mood swings of Kevin Dunn and Vince, they are allowed to "run amok" as it would seem. To better understand the difference between "work" and "DDP work" realize this; Savage/Steamboat is often praised as one of the best WM matches of all time. Now, listen to a real worker talk about that match and you'll hear a completely different opinion, because every detail of that match was scripted. Remember, that sort of thing goes over the head (and quite frankly, doesn't matter) of 99.5% of the people who watch that match. But to someone who is educated in such things, the 2 are night and day. Working is an art form. What they are doing is acting, which is a craft.
So, in developmental, the girls are free to be coached into being quality wrestlers. All of this buzz you are hearing about things being better in the WWE is nothing more that reverberations coming from developmental, because the girls are not allowed to have the same kind of matches they have in developmental on the main roster. There is also a very noticeable change in the amount of women who have huge implants. The only way that they're a "bigger part of the show" is this - When you watched, RAW was 2 hours and had 1 Women's segment. Now, RAW is 3 hours and 75% of the time they get 2 segments. Recently, one of the women was given a "record" breaking title reign COMPLETELY OUT OF SPITE to CM Punk and his wife AJ Lee, who both left the company in the last couple of years. To further throw fuel onto the "WWE is a place ran by fickle people", the woman in question who was the recipient of the "record breaking" title reign was John Cena's real life girlfriend.
Furthermore, this whole "Diva's Revolution" is nothing more than an exploration in masturbatory pleasure for Stephanie and HHH. On the WWE main shows, we are lead to believe that it is a result of Stephanie bringing up 3 girls from developmental. Nothing else really happened outside of the announcers saying "HASH TAG GIVE DIVAS A CHANCE IS TRENDING!". While, down in developmental, the audience is (very subtly I must say) being forced to believe that HHH is responsible for the whole thing. Of course, before HHH "invented" a developmental "brand", JR and Jim Cornette were doing the same thing in OVW.
Also, dude... some of the best wrestling matches of all time have come from women in Japan. These girls were trained in the same sort of Dojo setting as the men and thrived. Your ignorance on the subject is completely forgivable, but next time before making declarations like "women should only be eye candy", have some dignity and think about how it makes you sound. I'm not saying you are a sexist, misogynist person, but your comments on the role of women if pro wrestling came across that way. lol... but I think you knew that!
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Post by Next Man’s Knowing Rock on Jan 3, 2016 15:33:12 GMT -5
It became a trend in developmental with niche fans. WWE tried to capitalise on it, because UFC has done well out of a female star. Thus far, it's pretty much been a flop. But so is the rest of the WWE midcard, because there's too much match time and too little match reason so everyone gets overexposed. Until the company fixes that, the girls and guys are in the same boat, and that boat isn't going anywhere worthwhile.
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Hitman Bono
Main Eventer
WF 10 Year Member
The Sunday Jeff of it all...
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Post by Hitman Bono on Jan 3, 2016 15:45:41 GMT -5
It became a trend in developmental with niche fans. WWE tried to capitalise on it, because UFC has done well out of a female star. Thus far, it's pretty much been a flop. But so is the rest of the WWE midcard, because there's too much match time and too little match reason so everyone gets overexposed. Until the company fixes that, the girls and guys are in the same boat, and that boat isn't going anywhere worthwhile. Yeah, in my delusional rant I did forget to mention that the whole reason they ran with the the whole HASHTAGGIVEDIVASACHANCE thing was because Rhonda Rousey was setting the PPV box office on fire. Just another, classic example of Vince getting a new Buzz Lightyear (because the neighbor kid got one), playing with it for a week or 2, and then going back to Woody.
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Miztery
Superstar
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Post by Miztery on Jan 3, 2016 16:51:26 GMT -5
Never insult women's wrestling on this forum. I don't think highly of women's wresting either but I don't normally say anything about it because I know I will get annihilated.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2016 16:54:53 GMT -5
The women of WWE have and always will be Limited on what they can do in the ring.They don't want the women to be better than the men instead of treating them equal like other wrestling brands.People can say what they want about TNA but at least they didn't make there women look weak compared to the men.Hell in TNA and Lucha Underground women compete with the guys like it's no problem something WWE doesn't even do.
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Post by King Bálor (CM)™ on Jan 3, 2016 17:06:24 GMT -5
I enjoy women's wrestling. However, I think women's wrestling will never truly be something in the confines of WWE. WWE still wants the barbie doll, glam girls. I get it. I totally do. But you cant have both. As far as the divas revolution.....I think it was nothing more than internet smart marks looking for a hop topic button to push. This time they got WWE's attention and WWE decided to actually make a few changes. The problem was and still is that the main stream audience that attends the shows still see the women's match as the bathroom break. Part is because thats how they've been trained. And part is because WWE didnt fully commit to a divas revoltuion. They only partially committed. And thus matches like Bayley/Sasha isnt getting the time, stage or push on Raw like it has in NXT.
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Post by LA Times on Jan 3, 2016 17:07:03 GMT -5
People like Cameron, the Bella Twins and most of the Total Divas cast give womens wrestling a bad image with their putrid matches and off-screen personalities
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2016 17:12:35 GMT -5
Never insult women's wrestling on this forum. I don't think highly of women's wresting either but I don't normally say anything about it because I know I will get annihilated. It's all about the words you say.If you don't like female wrestling then that's fine nobody isn't gonna throw rocks at you .But if you say something like "Women Dont belong in the ring and wrestling should only be a male dominate world" then of course people will come for you.Me personally if a female can wrestle and is just as good as a guy is then let them wrestle.Its 2016 if a female can work just as hard as a guy can then give them the job.Let's stop limiting what the women can do it's one of my biggest gripes about WWE.
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