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Post by T R W on Jan 8, 2016 14:14:14 GMT -5
There are times I feel the same way. I hear people today rant and rave about the Young Bucks, but I don't see it. And while I like Styles, I don't love him like so many others do. To be fair to Nakamura, I've only watched two matches (in Kev's list), and while I enjoyed them, the jury is still out. For now, I too would rather watch Steamboat/Flair or Steamboat/Savage any day. But I'm hoping in the next few months, I'm talking about how impressed I am in him too. I will say though, there are still young talent I can buy into. Owens is one. IMO he has a very old school approach to being a heel that so many today do not understand. And I think Sami Zayn has potential to be one of the biggest stars of a time if booked properly. Balor is another. And I think Apollo Crews is a surefire future WWE champion. Not sure what the last comment was about there @monoxide23 , but good points all around 'cept I grew up during the start of Hulkamania and hated Hogan with a passion to this day. And I feel so validated all these decades later when I've learnt what an ass clown he is outside the ring. I get that Nakamura's gimmick is a "drugged out woman" now, but Johnny B. Badd had more charisma to me. I dont know how this guy connects with the audience. His match with Styles Jan-4 showed him grimacing and skinning out his black mouth guard to the crowd frequently. He's selling his opponents moves well, I get it, but showing your mouth guard is all it takes to "connect" with the crowd now? I don't think he's a bad wrestler at all, but you mentioned his match with Ibushi which I researched as well and it's an outstanding match, but to me Kato carried it. Man, you have no idea how much I appreciate reading that. For the longest time I thought I was the only one. Gotta love how the internet let's you talk to such a range of fans. I too suffered from Hulkamania. I was actively rooting for ANYONE to take the title off of him as a kid. Piper, Bundy, Volkoff, Orndorff, Andre, anyone! I was thrilled when Andre finally did it at SNME.
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Post by mikey1974 on Jan 8, 2016 18:53:17 GMT -5
There are times I feel the same way. I hear people today rant and rave about the Young Bucks, but I don't see it. And while I like Styles, I don't love him like so many others do. To be fair to Nakamura, I've only watched two matches (in Kev's list), and while I enjoyed them, the jury is still out. For now, I too would rather watch Steamboat/Flair or Steamboat/Savage any day. But I'm hoping in the next few months, I'm talking about how impressed I am in him too. I will say though, there are still young talent I can buy into. Owens is one. IMO he has a very old school approach to being a heel that so many today do not understand. And I think Sami Zayn has potential to be one of the biggest stars of a time if booked properly. Balor is another. And I think Apollo Crews is a surefire future WWE champion. Man, you have no idea how much I appreciate reading that. For the longest time I thought I was the only one. Gotta love how the internet let's you talk to such a range of fans. I too suffered from Hulkamania. I was actively rooting for ANYONE to take the title off of him as a kid. Piper, Bundy, Volkoff, Orndorff, Andre, anyone! I was thrilled when Andre finally did it at SNME. I was so sick of Hogan and Hulkamania only a little over 2 years into it, that I quit watching for over a year in 1986 - 1987. I only started to come back again in the summer of 1987, with, ironically,Hogan still as Champ.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2016 0:52:43 GMT -5
I cannot believe this conversation is happening. When Steen first appeared I had one comment since I had never seen him before. I said ¨That is Steen? I was expecting someone fit, he is kinda fat¨
That was my comment and it got a warning bar. For expressing something about wrestling on a WRESTLING forum!
The mods moved it to the evidence room in the archives I am sure. Go ahead and look it IS there.
So I am GLAD this kinda thing can be discussed publically without reprisals so far. That is great.
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Starscream
Superstar
"In my restless dreams. I see that town...."
Joined on: Sept 9, 2009 20:11:52 GMT -5
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Post by Starscream on Jan 9, 2016 2:38:52 GMT -5
I somewhat agree about Nakamura, he has amazing matches but he just tries way too hard in being "weird and different". That is how I see him it doesn`t come out as natural while Jeff is a natural in being "weird" because that is just how he is, with Nakamura it just looks fake and I cringe. Amazing worker and who knows maybe he really is eccentric but it rubs me the wrong way, I liked him better when he wasn`t a drugged out woman.
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Post by PJ on Jan 9, 2016 18:32:08 GMT -5
With Seth and Orton out and Sandow not on TV there's really nobody on RAW or SD I enjoy watching. Since Seth's injury I DVR everything and fast forward it until I see something I like. And really all I stop for now is Owens, New Day and occasionally Sheamus, Brey, Barrett. But for the most part I just can't get into it like I did in the 70's-late 90's.
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Jan 10, 2016 15:02:47 GMT -5
Back to the topic at hand, I also feel that part of why I can't enjoy wrestling over all is because I am 35 years old now, and I am rooting for guys who are 25 years old that are wrestling.
When I was a kid, or a teenager, the wrestlers I liked were clearly older, and I was looking up to them, wanting to be like them even, and now it's hard to get behind wrestlers who are 10 years - even 15 years younger than I am.
I still watch it, but I am not investing anything into the wrestlers anymore. Where as when I was a kid and a teenager, I was.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2016 17:32:17 GMT -5
Kayfabe being deader than a door nail certainly doesn't help things. Not much contribution I know but kayfabe is something that is sorely missed
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Hitman Bono
Main Eventer
WF 10 Year Member
The Sunday Jeff of it all...
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Post by Hitman Bono on Jan 11, 2016 4:52:50 GMT -5
Forgive me for being frank here, but the reason WWE sucks right now is 3 fold. 1.HHH & Steph have been the main heels for almost 3 years now. The only time they've "got what they deserved" was at Survivor Series 2014. And that didn't last but a month? Having Rollins lose as their proxy isn't the same as the 2 of them "losing". It's stale.
2.Daniel Bryan being out. They waited 6 months too long to pull the trigger and even then it was working. Can't blame them for it, but it still sucks.
3.Roman Reigns. It's not all his fault. They've 50/50 booked everyone besides Cena the last 5 years, and when they finally decide not to 50/50 someone and give them the shuttle ride, it's someone that has no charisma as a character. If it takes working the WM Main Event,winning a tournament, being screwed, beating up HHH (who was tweeting workouts and getting bu*k*k*d at the NXT show 3 days later), getting revenge, bringing Vince out (after 4? 5 years?), feuding with Vince...ugh, if it takes all of that to get a Main Event rub...well you get the point.
Here's a tip. Don't worry about enjoying the current product. You know you're a Pro Wrestling fan. Personally, the last few months have been the worst for me as a (current product) fan, but I've been watching stuff that I know I like to make up for it. With my job I've got a lot of down time coming up and I plan on watching 2010 episodes of Superstars (on the WWE Youtube channel, trust me, it's GOLD), some old Destroyer stuff, a plethora of AJPW 90's 6 man tags, and a healthy mix of NWA/WCW and Bill Watts stuff I've never been privy to on the Network. So don't worry about staying a fan and just be a fan. I guess the best way to put it is to treat it like music. You know what you like. You know who you like. So listen to their best albums, investigate and find the obscure B-Sides and live recordings. Free yourself from the chains of this week's "Top 40" and just listen to The Joshua Tree for the 90th time.
And then there's Nakamura. First of all, they're only throwing money at him now because of the Network launch in Japan. Accept that. Now pray (if you're into that sort of thing) that because of that reason, they push him to the f*ckin moon. Perchance his charisma is lost in translation. Maybe, because you haven't seen him grow from "That little p*ick they had beat Tenzan because he did MMA" into a CHARACTER that you don't realize how special he's made himself. Maybe you think of him of a lanky, flamboyant, internet darling. I mean, he is all of those things, but he's got "it". I'm not going to say that the more you see of him the more you will like him, but he's good man. He comes across as real with his work.
And don't forget to take solace in the fact that Hogan's getting everything he deserves right now! I honestly feel bad for those "Lost Causers" running around trying to sing the guy's praises. Remember that while that orange goblin won many a battle, it looks like Hulkamania is going to end up losing the war.
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Post by mikey1974 on Jan 11, 2016 15:34:25 GMT -5
Kayfabe being deader than a door nail certainly doesn't help things. Not much contribution I know but kayfabe is something that is sorely missed 100% agree. Yeah, there was always that undercurrent of how can that be real or this would never really happen. But you were able to suspend your disbelief and just enjoy the product, and just enjoy the product because the illusion was kept alive. Much like a magic show - once you learn how the tricks work, yeah,there's some enjoyment and respect of how things work, and what the performers do to make them work, but the actual MAGIC is gone. Same with pro wrestling.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2016 15:45:13 GMT -5
Kayfabe being deader than a door nail certainly doesn't help things. Not much contribution I know but kayfabe is something that is sorely missed 100% agree. Yeah, there was always that undercurrent of how can that be real or this would never really happen. But you were able to suspend your disbelief and just enjoy the product, and just enjoy the product because the illusion was kept alive. Much like a magic show - once you learn how the tricks work, yeah,there's some enjoyment and respect of how things work, and what the performers do to make them work, but the actual MAGIC is gone. Same with pro wrestling. 100% agree with you on that. That's an /thread statement right there
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Post by Bandalero on Jan 15, 2016 12:32:21 GMT -5
a funny little thing about magic.
As a kid I was mesmerized. Remember Jake's snake biting Macho Man? I think someone highlighted that earlier. Well I was re-watching Spin the Wheel Make the Deal with Jake and Sting. Sting's my all-time favourite wrestler. When Jake's cobra bit him I almost lost it in excitment. Looking back at the match now, you clearly see the snake is drugged/limp, and Jake attempts twice to attach it himself to his face - quite comically. The magic is blown.
Now you might say I'm seeing it again through 20+ years of eyes since then, but remember the majority of the crowd in that arena were adults and they were equally as hyped at that time. Because you could suspend your disbelief. The wrestlers lived their gimmick.
I miss kayfabe.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2016 12:46:48 GMT -5
Nakamura.
Some love him, others don't. Whatever.
If your a fan, as I am, you don't need to explain to someone why he is great if that person clearly doesn't like him. It's nothing against that person, they're fully entitled to that opinion but there is no point discussing it. Every wrestler ever has had those that like him and those that don't, neither side is right nor wrong.
The only thing I'd say is dont dismiss him before he has even set foot in the 'e and even when he has and you still don't like him it doesn't mean he is rubbish or overhyped or whatever, it simply doesn't mean anything other than you don't like him and that's perfectly fine.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2016 2:25:46 GMT -5
Agree with OP for the most part, aside from Vampiro vs. PJ being "how hardcore is done". LU is so cringey it pains me, and that match was a glorified ECW trash match. I loved ECW, but some of their matches were awful. This is one of them.
Aside from that, I agree. The current roster is so ridiculously uninteresting, in every way imaginable. I keep waiting for a moment to change it all, yet it just gets worse every week. It doesn't help coming on the internet and seeing everyone and their brother brag about Rollins, Reigns, Owens, Ambrose and Swagger. These are 5 of the worst "Top" talents in history. They're like WWE rejects being pushed in TNA...except ironically it's backwards. I thought was interest was dwindling in 2003, but I'd gladly take those days back if I didn't have to cringe my way through todays product. Perhaps you're right and the past is influencing me too much. But guys like Lesnar and Wyatt are outstanding performers, and fans still love the guys who are just terrible. Maybe I'm old. Whatever.
Also, Nakamura. Was familiar with the name, but had never watched a ton of him. After hearing the ridiculous hype behind him, I went and watched a bunch of videos on him. I definitely wouldn't say he "OOZES" charisma, but the guy really is pretty talented, and if given the opportunity, I feel he could actually shine in WWE. It's unlikely, sure, but it goes to prove there are talented guys out there, WWE just pushes the ones that aren't.
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