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Post by The Natural Eddy Valintino on Apr 18, 2016 15:27:38 GMT -5
Other than not explaining pretty well why he's going after Kevin Owens, cause not everyone watches NXT, Sami Zayn doesn't need much of a character. His character is basically himself as an underdog. He's doing fine so far.
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Post by chaz on Apr 18, 2016 15:29:32 GMT -5
Cross-dressing garbage man.
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Post by Gone. on Apr 18, 2016 15:30:23 GMT -5
His gimmick is that he's definitely not El Generico.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2016 15:32:58 GMT -5
A loveable, relatable underdog.
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Post by Weemanv1 on Apr 18, 2016 15:34:03 GMT -5
What is the obsession with gimmicks and characters? The guy is an underdog who loves to wrestle. He's obviously over as hell. He has direction. Hes doing just fine. And I don't understand people who have to be against workrate. I'd rather watch a match that's going to be fantastic in the ring than need every match to be story driven. I wish I could like this more than once. A loveable, relatable underdog. That's the correct answer.
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DestroyerOfNations
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Post by DestroyerOfNations on Apr 18, 2016 15:36:41 GMT -5
The same thing can be said about Cesaro. He comes out in a suit now, but why? Is he a hitman? Is he superman shedding his every day clothes? I think people take the word character negatively. I don't want a hockey player, a garbage man, a police officer, etc. These guys just need stories. Taking shots at creative is easy to do, but it should be done. Work rate is important don't get me wrong, but two fantastic wrestlers have a fantastic match isn't memorable when you make it a throwaway. These guys need stories, motivation, background, and so on. WWE is a tv show. Like any good tv show you need interesting characters. That right there is a huge reason why New Day had the number 1 merch sales at Mania.
Bottom line is work rate can only get you so far. Yeah the hardcore fans love the guys who can work, but that's such a fraction of the audience that the WWE once had and totally lost.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2016 15:37:25 GMT -5
What is the obsession with gimmicks and characters? The guy is an underdog who loves to wrestle. He's obviously over as hell. He has direction. Hes doing just fine. And I don't understand people who have to be against workrate. I'd rather watch a match that's going to be fantastic in the ring than need every match to be story driven. Because what they're doing now is clearly not working, and all of the biggest stars in wrestling history had great characters/gimmicks. Wrestling by itself has never drawn in America. It has always taken a combination great characters, story and wrestling. Just having a bunch of guys wrestling for no reason will not work. The Attitude era/nWo era is the biggest era in wrestling ever and it was focused much more on story rather than wrestling. Goldberg was the biggest draw in WCW ever and he's not exactly known for having great "workrate". The WWF title was traded around like a hot potato, yet it still felt x10 more prestigious then vs now. And Sami being over as hell is questionable. Maybe to certain types of fans, but he has yet to blow the roof off the arena everywhere he has gone. If you can't hear Sami getting great pops and Ole chants filling the arenas, you're deaf brother.
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Post by marino13 on Apr 18, 2016 15:39:59 GMT -5
Do you think he would be better off as WWE's resident Milkman? A Mailman? Or a disgruntled office worker?
Daniel Bryan didn't really have a gimmick. Neither did Bret or Benoit. All played the underdog that can out wrestle anyone. And all of them made it to the top. Because sometimes talent supersedes a shtick. IMHO Zayn has all the talent in the world, and if booked as an underdog, he will have a very successful career by the time it's all said and done.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2016 15:40:52 GMT -5
What is the obsession with gimmicks and characters? The guy is an underdog who loves to wrestle. He's obviously over as hell. He has direction. Hes doing just fine. And I don't understand people who have to be against workrate. I'd rather watch a match that's going to be fantastic in the ring than need every match to be story driven. Because what they're doing now is clearly not working, and all of the biggest stars in wrestling history had great characters/gimmicks. Wrestling by itself has never drawn in America. It has always taken a combination great characters, story and wrestling. Just having a bunch of guys wrestling for no reason will not work. The Attitude era/nWo era is the biggest era in wrestling ever and it was focused much more on story rather than wrestling. Goldberg was the biggest draw in WCW ever and he's not exactly known for having great "workrate". The WWF title was traded around like a hot potato, yet it still felt x10 more prestigious then vs now. And Sami being over as hell is questionable. Maybe to certain types of fans, but he has yet to blow the roof off the arena everywhere he has gone. Hogan had towns that didn't cheer him. So did Austin. So did The Rock. So did Michaels. So does everybody. Not everyone is gonna get a great reaction in every town they go to, but Sami is one of the most organic baby faces the company has ever seen.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2016 15:43:17 GMT -5
Because what they're doing now is clearly not working, and all of the biggest stars in wrestling history had great characters/gimmicks. Wrestling by itself has never drawn in America. It has always taken a combination great characters, story and wrestling. Just having a bunch of guys wrestling for no reason will not work. The Attitude era/nWo era is the biggest era in wrestling ever and it was focused much more on story rather than wrestling. Goldberg was the biggest draw in WCW ever and he's not exactly known for having great "workrate". The WWF title was traded around like a hot potato, yet it still felt x10 more prestigious then vs now. And Sami being over as hell is questionable. Maybe to certain types of fans, but he has yet to blow the roof off the arena everywhere he has gone. If you can't hear Sami getting great pops and Ole chants filling the arenas, you're deaf brother. How does that refute any of my other points? I think Sami is over, but he's over to a marginal group of people. No one is telling me why I'm wrong, they're just saying I'm wrong or that they don't care. Is it not a fact that the Attitude era/nWo era was the most profitable era in wrestling history? Is it not a fact that those era were focused much more on the story/character aspect rather than the wrestling? Because what they're doing now is clearly not working, and all of the biggest stars in wrestling history had great characters/gimmicks. Wrestling by itself has never drawn in America. It has always taken a combination great characters, story and wrestling. Just having a bunch of guys wrestling for no reason will not work. The Attitude era/nWo era is the biggest era in wrestling ever and it was focused much more on story rather than wrestling. Goldberg was the biggest draw in WCW ever and he's not exactly known for having great "workrate". The WWF title was traded around like a hot potato, yet it still felt x10 more prestigious then vs now. And Sami being over as hell is questionable. Maybe to certain types of fans, but he has yet to blow the roof off the arena everywhere he has gone. Hogan had towns that didn't cheer him. So did Austin. So did The Rock. So did Michaels. So does everybody. Not everyone is gonna get a great reaction in every town they go to, but Sami is one of the most organic baby faces the company has ever seen.Bret Hart.
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Post by Edge618 on Apr 18, 2016 15:46:24 GMT -5
What is the obsession with gimmicks and characters? The guy is an underdog who loves to wrestle. He's obviously over as hell. He has direction. Hes doing just fine. And I don't understand people who have to be against workrate. I'd rather watch a match that's going to be fantastic in the ring than need every match to be story driven. Because what they're doing now is clearly not working, and all of the biggest stars in wrestling history had great characters/gimmicks. Wrestling by itself has never drawn in America. It has always taken a combination great characters, story and wrestling. Just having a bunch of guys wrestling for no reason will not work. The Attitude era/nWo era is the biggest era in wrestling ever and it was focused much more on story rather than wrestling. Goldberg was the biggest draw in WCW ever and he's not exactly known for having great "workrate". The WWF title was traded around like a hot potato, yet it still felt x10 more prestigious then vs now. And Sami being over as hell is questionable. Maybe to certain types of fans, but he has yet to blow the roof off the arena everywhere he has gone. I wouldnt say what theyre doing now "clearly isnt working". Theyre making plenty of money, just had 100 thousand at Mania,and have close to a million subscribers on the Network. Idk if the Attitude Era would have worked in todays market. TV was everyones main source of media during the monday night wars, thats why ratings were through the roof. I think Raw's ratings would at least double if there were no dirtsheets, no reliable internet, no social media. Its a different time. Mainstream doesnt get behind characters anymore. And i mean super gimmicky. If Taker didnt exist and debuted next week on Raw for the first time he'd flop harder than the ECW zombie. The next gimmick that truly has a chance to work it Balor.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2016 15:50:01 GMT -5
If you can't hear Sami getting great pops and Ole chants filling the arenas, you're deaf brother. How does that refute any of my other points? I think Sami is over, but he's over to a marginal group of people. No one is telling me why I'm wrong, they're just saying I'm wrong or that they don't care. Is it not a fact that the Attitude era/nWo era was the most profitable era in wrestling history? Is it not a fact that those era were focused much more on the story/character aspect rather than the wrestling? Hogan had towns that didn't cheer him. So did Austin. So did The Rock. So did Michaels. So does everybody. Not everyone is gonna get a great reaction in every town they go to, but Sami is one of the most organic baby faces the company has ever seen.Bret Hart. Okay..? Bret was popular, sure, but what does that have to do with what I'm saying? I didn't say he was the most popular of all time, I said he was one of the most popular of all time. The modern wrestling fan doesn't want to see over the top characters, they want to see more good matches and more good wrestlers. It's why people have been clamouring for better treatment of women in wrestling in recent years, because people don't just want them to look pretty and pull each other's hair, they want to see if they're actually good at wrestling. Times have changed and wrestling has to change with those times. The era of over the top gimmicks passed 20 years ago and caused one of the biggest slumps in WWE history, leaving 1994-1996 as some of the most boring years in wrestling ever. People are seeking out companies like New Japan, ROH, PWG and other indies because they focus on what the modern fan wants; actual wrestling.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2016 15:51:11 GMT -5
If you can't hear Sami getting great pops and Ole chants filling the arenas, you're deaf brother. How does that refute any of my other points? I think Sami is over, but he's over to a marginal group of people. No one is telling me why I'm wrong, they're just saying I'm wrong or that they don't care. Is it not a fact that the Attitude era/nWo era was the most profitable era in wrestling history? Is it not a fact that those era were focused much more on the story/character aspect rather than the wrestling? Hogan had towns that didn't cheer him. So did Austin. So did The Rock. So did Michaels. So does everybody. Not everyone is gonna get a great reaction in every town they go to, but Sami is one of the most organic baby faces the company has ever seen.Bret Hart. The Attitude Era and The Monday Nights Wars were the most profitable, yes, but wrestling has evolved from that. Why are wrestling fans always living in the past. There will probably never be another boom like that for a while. Most that go back and watch that time period agree that beyond nostalgia a lot of that was pure garbage. Wrestling fans now a days want good in ring action. Not larger than life characters. It's why a guy like Seth Rollins is killing it and a guy like Roman, who I'm a fan of, gets sh** on constantly. Look, I get it. You want big characters and gimmicks. It's made evident in what you post and who you like. That's cool. But guys now a days, Bryan being a major one to prove it, can get insanely over and become hugely marketable without the need of being a comic book/cartoon character. Other guys like The New Day show that stuff still works. It's just not a requirement. Sami will be fine as the happy go lucky underdog.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2016 15:53:01 GMT -5
Because what they're doing now is clearly not working, and all of the biggest stars in wrestling history had great characters/gimmicks. Wrestling by itself has never drawn in America. It has always taken a combination great characters, story and wrestling. Just having a bunch of guys wrestling for no reason will not work. The Attitude era/nWo era is the biggest era in wrestling ever and it was focused much more on story rather than wrestling. Goldberg was the biggest draw in WCW ever and he's not exactly known for having great "workrate". The WWF title was traded around like a hot potato, yet it still felt x10 more prestigious then vs now. And Sami being over as hell is questionable. Maybe to certain types of fans, but he has yet to blow the roof off the arena everywhere he has gone. I wouldnt say what theyre doing now "clearly isnt working". Theyre making plenty of money, just had 100 thousand at Mania,and have close to a million subscribers on the Network. Idk if the Attitude Era would have worked in todays market. TV was everyones main source of media during the monday night wars, thats why ratings were through the roof. I think Raw's ratings would at least double if there were no dirtsheets, no reliable internet, no social media. Its a different time. Mainstream doesnt get behind characters anymore. And i mean super gimmicky. If Taker didnt exist and debuted next week on Raw for the first time he'd flop harder than the ECW zombie. The next gimmick that truly has a chance to work it Balor. Finally. I agree that they're not doing bad per se, but the last actual stars they made were Batista/John Cena. The two that broke the all time PPV buyrates and all that. That was over 10 years ago, though. It seems they are trying to get the WWE brand itself over as the selling point now, and I dunno if that is a good idea in the long run. Reigns is on his way, sort of, but I don't think he'll get as big as he could have.
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DestroyerOfNations
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Post by DestroyerOfNations on Apr 18, 2016 15:57:01 GMT -5
I think people are taking this thread as a jab to Sami Zayn and that's not what this is. We knew Daniel Bryan was an underdog because he had the athority against him, it was a movement. We started that but they turned it into a story. Who said Sami is an underdog? What makes him anymore an underdog than Kevin Ownes? By that standard couldn't you say everyone who comes from NXT is an underdog?
There is no story to these guys. It's not coming from storylines, it's not coming from promos, it's not coming from the commentary. Sami Zayn is one of my favorites right now and I'm not criticizing him, I'm critiquing WWE. There's a reason why their audience is half of what it used to be, and favoring workrate over story is a main reason.
Think Hogan/Andre. By the past 25 years standards that match sucks. But Hogan slammed the Giant and everyone was watching and it was the biggest deal in the wrestling business at the time. Same when Warrior beat Hogan, and Taker threw Mankind off the cell, and McMahon and Austin brawled in the steel cage.
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WWE4Life!
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Post by WWE4Life! on Apr 18, 2016 16:03:29 GMT -5
I like to see a mixture of over the top characters and people that are just there to compete. I think it gives everyone something to enjoy. Sami Zayn is one of my favorites right now. You're right, he doesn't have a gimmick but I don't think he needs one. His story will flesh out over time which is a good thing. Fans seem to lack patience. I personally like a story that takes time to develop. Although, I do think they should do more vignettes to introduce new talent to the roster. They could also more easily fill Raw's three hours if they did spotlight video packages and interviews with the performers.
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Post by Rontaro13 on Apr 18, 2016 16:06:50 GMT -5
He's the underdog from the underground.
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Apr 18, 2016 16:10:52 GMT -5
A loveable, relatable underdog. I get the need for characters, but sometimes (Daniel Bryan for example), this is all you need.
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Apr 18, 2016 16:11:36 GMT -5
Sami has cool tights and catchy music so he doesn't really need a character. Guys like Sheamus and Del Rio flopped because they have boring looks and no character.
The modern fans do like charaters and gimmicks however. The majority of the fanbase are kids and they don't care about technical wrestling. They watch for the ass kicking and entertainment.
Sometimes your look is as important as a gimmick.
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Post by King Richius on Apr 18, 2016 17:17:54 GMT -5
What is the obsession with gimmicks and characters? The guy is an underdog who loves to wrestle. He's obviously over as hell. He has direction. Hes doing just fine. And I don't understand people who have to be against workrate. I'd rather watch a match that's going to be fantastic in the ring than need every match to be story driven. Sadly, history shows us that a great character with poor workrate has a better chance of success than a not so great character with a great workrate. Good stories build good characters. So far Sami has the underdog fighting the odds as his main story. He has a sub-story of a history with Kevin Owens that propels that feud, but it all seemed kind of vague because WWE won't specifically mention ROH, El Generico, or Kevin Steen. At least they now have their NXT history that they can mention on air. I worry what will happen after he and Owens wrap up their current feud.
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