TheBadGuyChico
POSSIBLE BAD TRADER
Joined on: Dec 3, 2012 10:34:41 GMT -5
Posts: 1,715
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Post by TheBadGuyChico on Jan 10, 2017 23:17:31 GMT -5
So admittedly I'm not much of a fan of modern day wrestling, there just isn't enough of entertainment factor anymore to pull me in. Charisma and presence really are the two main variable that hooked me back in the early 90s, I'm going to digress though. That's actually another topic, for another day.
I only preface my post with that as an example of irony, those variables being diluted over the years isn't even the main reason I lack interest. Thinking about it, it isn't the PG element either, nor the scripted promos, all things I loathe.
Nope, what's kills me the most is the booking. That's the deal breaker. A wrestling show where guys trade wins and losses all year, many of them inconsequential..... it ruins it for me. I can't watch it as a sitcom, it's a still a worked sport to me dammit!
The start/stop pushes, the countless titles reigns over the past 15 years that will have no historical significance, what reason do we have to care about wins and losses anymore? Most of the talent seem so beatable. The part timers and legends are the only wrestlers with mystique. Goldberg has only suffered so many losses over the span of his career.
Why aren't the stars of today protected? Can it all be blamed on the amount of TV time?
I'd love to hear your thoughts on the booking of wrestlers today and how it effects your enjoyment of the product.
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Post by kingnothing ~ Hardwired... on Jan 11, 2017 4:39:01 GMT -5
Your thread title probably answers itself. To Vince and company 50/50 booking IS character protection. They sell merchandise to us, the viewer, and the best way they think there is to keep us buying is to keep a select few from losing too much. If you're a wrestler in the middle to upper card, they don't want you to lose so much momentum that your shirt doesn't sell.
In a way, it's like how society has grown a bit too protective of itself in recent years. A comedian can't make the same jokes they did 20 years ago because it might offend someone. 20 years ago the IC champ (or any champion for that matter) wasn't losing many matches unless it was occasionally by outside interference during a non-title bout to set up a feud, or it was time for a title change. Today, unless you're one of the very select few that are top 3-5 selling merch, you're probably going to end up in a feud with someone who lost last week, so it's time for you help him make a few dollars this week.
Or at least that's the way it appears to me, as a ripple effect from making WWE a publicly traded company.
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Post by Mark Martin on Jan 11, 2017 4:49:07 GMT -5
Yeah, the WWE sucks nowadays.
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Post by SmithyPlayz on Jan 11, 2017 5:06:20 GMT -5
I agree with you, I don't think the show being 3 hours is killing it that much. It's the booking, the fact that Owens and Reigns have competed on RAW at least 4 times on RAW says the booking isn't right. The only star they've pushed is Braun, meanwhile you have Smackdown who have pushed Corbin and Ziggler and Bliss and made stars like Wyatt Family, Ambrose, Carmella look like stars. I think RAW needs to be 2 hours, or make it 3 and have an extra hour after for 205 Live, then they will also have the UK Show they want to do so they haven't lost TV Time
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Post by hCo.Bro™ [brandon_lee] on Jan 11, 2017 7:25:55 GMT -5
I think they've moved away from needing that one top guy to carry the company.
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Jan 11, 2017 7:37:53 GMT -5
They have no competition plain and simple. Vince can give us half baked shows with repetitive matches and relax because there is no WCW on the other channel that can steal the ratings.
During the Monday night Wars the WWE was fighting for survival so they had to step things up a gear and provide us with endless entertainment.
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Post by Next Man’s Knowing Rock on Jan 11, 2017 8:45:55 GMT -5
It's partly the TV time and the weak roster as they need those main events every week, but also creative laziness/stagnation, and there's the issue of our own brattiness. They can't protect a top babyface from 50/50 booking without us doing the waa-waa-stop-telling-me-who-to-like deal, and they can't/won't/haven't figured out a way around that yet. With a heel it's easier, but then it's like building up your monster and not having a hero to defeat him. They tried it with Brock, got cold feet on Reigns beating him, and ended up letting Brock's heat fizzle out a bit as he feuded with other big names.
There are very few strong male babyfaces and heels in the company. Miz and Corbin are the best heels by far, but neither of them are main eventers. At the top end, you have the likes of Styles, Jericho and Owens, who are great but about 90% of their act is intended to draw cheers and sell merch.
Ultimately, the attitude era spoiled us and the show. They've figured out how to progress from that business-wise with the different revenue streams etc, but creatively, we're still living in a stale version of the 1998 format.
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Post by J'Dinkalage Morgoone on Jan 11, 2017 12:36:33 GMT -5
I always hate when someone becomes champion or wins in a feud they automatically lose the next night in a random match that means nothing, this makes the entire feud previously mean absolutly nothing. makes no sense.
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Cane Dewey Riley
Superstar
Has there ever been a time when more companies have been making wrestling figures at the same time?
Joined on: Apr 9, 2016 17:54:59 GMT -5
Posts: 928
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Post by Cane Dewey Riley on Jan 11, 2017 13:38:52 GMT -5
It's a double edged sword. If you have someone booked to look strong like John Cena or Roman Reigns once was, if you protect their character, people complain that they never lose "Oh, you don't bet against Super Cena lololololz" But I actually enjoy the winning and losing sides of characters because someone can go through a slump and then get out of it. Things like Goldberg and "The Streak" just don't work in wrestling today because professional wrestling- largely due to social media and the internet- is not properly prepared for such things. If someone was to enter WWE and be undefeated (They did it with Baron Corbin in NXT to my most recent memory), who would be the one to break that undefeated streak? No matter who WWE predicted, fans would crap all over it. I just feel like wins and losses don't matter because a character like Bray Wyatt can lose more than he wins and still appeal to me.
What bothers me most- going with what you said and not looking at 50/50 booking- about modern wrestling in WWE versus when I watched growing up is that everybody kicks out of everybody else's finishers. Once in a while, like for Wrestlemania or whatever, it's not a bad thing, but if a finisher is kicked out of more often than it is used to, um, finish an opponent, then should it really be your finisher? When Jake Roberts first adopted the DDT it was a brutal looking move which you thought would knock the other guy out if not break their neck and kill them. It just had that "no one is kicking out of that" feel behind it, and even when Stone Cold did his Stunner and The Rock Bottom- you knew those moves ended matches. Now it's like, "OMG! How does someone kick out of eleven F5s!!!!!" I feel like WWE needs to rethink the concept of finishers because people kicking out of them is no longer such a big surprise.
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TheBadGuyChico
POSSIBLE BAD TRADER
Joined on: Dec 3, 2012 10:34:41 GMT -5
Posts: 1,715
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Post by TheBadGuyChico on Jan 11, 2017 19:30:53 GMT -5
I just can't recall the likes of not only a Hulk Hogan but guys like Savage, Piper, Slaughter, Rude, Perfect,Hart, and Michaels losing many televised matches.
We can all recall the losses these guys had, and most of them were in big matches, and had a solid reason behind it. Stars didn't simply lose a match for the sake of having a conclusive finish to a match. That's my issue.
I'm not even talking about a Cena or a Goldberg type, we see the whole roster lose all year round. That murders the mystique of these guys to me.
If Razor Ramon or Diesel were doing tv jobs non stop, I wouldn't have been as impressed. I don't care if it's a work, I want strong talent.
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Post by k5 on Jan 12, 2017 1:45:20 GMT -5
there truly is a difference between professional wrestling and sports entertainment - they differentiate on a lot of degrees, and don't necessarily have the same end goal.
wrestling relies on wrestling. the entire logic is if you have a good wrestling product then it will attract wrestling fans. sports entertainment is a far more complicated beast...it's only true end goal is money. vince changed wrestling to sports entertainment, but the real evolution occurred in the attitude era. with the rise of sable's popularity and russo's circus-meets-soap opera writing, the focus became what would push the envelope and completely broke from the traditions of how the wrestling industry functioned.
that's why it is so damn nice to see actual pro wrestling returning in popularity all around the world - and the wwe taking note of this and wisely changing with the times despite their destructive past. nxt, the women's division, the improved roster and workrate, and wwe's globalization are all proof of this.
we fought them (wwe) over recognizing 'good' wrestling and moving on from the bland in ring workers of the mid 2000s until only a few years ago. there was a time when the wrestling fan was being completely drowned by endless cena superman programs...that seems a long time ago even now. and it was a hard fight that is still continuing - and is what the upheaval against roman reigns is truly about. it's truly a wrestling revolution.
i really wish that the wwe had gotten more negative media attention in terms of their treatment of daniel bryan. before they were going with his success, it was truly a bewildering sight to see a company resist what was clearly what it's consumers wanted to see. the modern day wwe is a bipolar product.
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500DaysofNight
Main Eventer
Joined on: Dec 30, 2001 10:19:35 GMT -5
Posts: 4,639
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Post by 500DaysofNight on Jan 13, 2017 5:01:14 GMT -5
It's a double edged sword. If you have someone booked to look strong like John Cena or Roman Reigns once was, if you protect their character, people complain that they never lose "Oh, you don't bet against Super Cena lololololz" But I actually enjoy the winning and losing sides of characters because someone can go through a slump and then get out of it. Things like Goldberg and "The Streak" just don't work in wrestling today because professional wrestling- largely due to social media and the internet- is not properly prepared for such things. If someone was to enter WWE and be undefeated (They did it with Baron Corbin in NXT to my most recent memory), who would be the one to break that undefeated streak? No matter who WWE predicted, fans would crap all over it. I just feel like wins and losses don't matter because a character like Bray Wyatt can lose more than he wins and still appeal to me. What bothers me most- going with what you said and not looking at 50/50 booking- about modern wrestling in WWE versus when I watched growing up is that everybody kicks out of everybody else's finishers. Once in a while, like for Wrestlemania or whatever, it's not a bad thing, but if a finisher is kicked out of more often than it is used to, um, finish an opponent, then should it really be your finisher? When Jake Roberts first adopted the DDT it was a brutal looking move which you thought would knock the other guy out if not break their neck and kill them. It just had that "no one is kicking out of that" feel behind it, and even when Stone Cold did his Stunner and The Rock Bottom- you knew those moves ended matches. Now it's like, "OMG! How does someone kick out of eleven F5s!!!!!" I feel like WWE needs to rethink the concept of finishers because people kicking out of them is no longer such a big surprise. Speaking of finishers, it's crazy that they protect Dirty Deeds so much now. Has anyone even kicked out of it in the last 5-6 months? I can't even remember off the top of my head.
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Deleted
Joined on: May 6, 2024 21:23:21 GMT -5
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2017 9:15:55 GMT -5
Too much TV time to fill means too many wrestlers needing to lose every week. Leads to overexposure, and a great difficulty in wrestlers getting over if they're losing on TV every other week.
Not to mention the rubbish storylines. I've given up watching Raw and Smackdown, it's too much. The standard of the wrestling on PPVs on the whole means I won't give up on those, but for the moment at least there is nothing make me want to tune in to Raw or Smackdown. I hope that changes soon as I'm going to Wrestlemania in three months
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Jan 13, 2017 10:13:03 GMT -5
The problem still lies in not having enough enhancement talent to put over the stars.
Why should someone invest any time in Breezango when you know they are just gonna be jobbing to American Alpha, or Rhyno and Slater, or The Hype Bros.??
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