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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Jun 5, 2017 12:19:52 GMT -5
I'm sorry but ever since the draft Ziggler has been hated on, called damaged goods and basically every name under the sun, but why?
IMO Ziggler is in a position that many young guys could only dream off, he will always be remembered and is most certainly a future HOFer so if anything he's one of the most safe and successful guys on he roster.
Not everyone has to main event or have a long world title reign so there is no reason why someone can't spend their career a mid carder and help put others over.
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Post by blissfan4life on Jun 5, 2017 12:21:43 GMT -5
Because he's stale, hasn't changed his act in years, has tried to cosplay 90's hbk and a heavy metal concert goer from the 80s wearing all denim and having names of bands on his shirt.
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Jun 5, 2017 12:28:06 GMT -5
Because he's stale, hasn't changed his act in years, has tried to cosplay 90's hbk and a heavy metal concert goer from the 80s wearing all denim and having names of bands on his shirt. Actually he has. Before he dressed like HBK he based his look on Billy Gunn. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2017 12:32:26 GMT -5
He is stale and has, in my opinion, shown zero improvement and is complacent.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2017 12:38:58 GMT -5
To me he's just simply not what he used to be.
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Post by Matt on Jun 5, 2017 12:43:31 GMT -5
Ziggler has been amazing this heel run. Hoping he can keep it up.
Actually pulling for him to win the MITB behind Baron Corbin.
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Post by J12 on Jun 5, 2017 12:50:28 GMT -5
Ziggler was one of my absolute favorites for years, and I clamored (along with many others) for him to be treated like a star when he was stuck in 50/50 booking hell for years on end. As his career has progressed, I think we've seen a couple of things. First, WWE's booking of his character did do a tremendous amount of long term, irreparable damage. Second, and this one took a while for me to come to terms with, I don't think he gets it. And that's weird to say about a guy I was so fond of for so long, but to me, Dolph's shortcomings have become increasingly apparent as he wades around the waters of this brand split. His look is tired and dated, his promos are far too meta to work (I'm a loser because I've been booked like a loser! etc.) and his in ring work, while still very good to great, lacks credibility because his character has been so badly damaged.
I think WWE did a lot of harm to Ziggler, and as time goes by, I realize Ziggler also did a lot of harm to himself. I don't know what the answer for him is, or if there even is one. I just can't buy him as a legitimate main event player anymore, and I don't think we're ever going to see that again.
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Post by punksnotdead on Jun 5, 2017 13:45:17 GMT -5
I honestly think he should have won the Royal Rumble in 2015. After Survivor Series and that TLC match to close out 2014, I don't think he was ever more poised to go to the next level. Even if they had to put Roman over him at Fastlane, it still would have left him in a prime position on the Mania 31 card. Spilt milk.
I'm still a fan though. His feud with Miz was fantastic last year. I think his heel stuff as of late has been good, too. He's gotten a ton of freedom on the mic, finally, and I think he's delivered in those segments. Nakamura absolutely sucks on the mic. The fact that Ziggler was able to get anything out of that program was a miracle. He just had a great match with AJ Styles.
We live in a world where Jinder Mahal can go from jabroni jobber to WWE Champion in 30 days. So I hope Ziggler wins MITB and wins that title. I think he needs it the most to give him his identity back. He was amazing with that case and I think he can be that guy again. He has been checked out over the last few years. You can tell. He's gotten tired of fighting for it. He's been punished for years for how well he makes other guys look good. It's time to let him have a real shot at it when there is absolutely nothing to lose at the top of the Smackdown card.
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Post by bababooey on Jun 5, 2017 13:47:07 GMT -5
They problem with Ziggler is that while most young guys would kill to be in his spot, he's been around forever and hasn't really done much. Around the time he won Money in the Bank he was awesome and was on fire. Even before that. Since his concussion shortly after winning the title, it's like he just accepted that he is where he is. When I see him on TV I get the vibe that he's just defeated and going through the motions and collecting a paycheck. He kinda seems checked out and not trying to break out like he used to.
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Post by TheChamp420 on Jun 5, 2017 13:52:02 GMT -5
Much rather have DZ has champ then Jinder
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hbkowns
Main Eventer
Joined on: Aug 15, 2011 23:33:52 GMT -5
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Post by hbkowns on Jun 5, 2017 14:03:13 GMT -5
I would be phoning it in too if I were treated how he is/was. He has been passed over time in and time out for pretty much everyone.
It's funny how everyone gets on Ziggler for staying complacent or not changing his character, when 90% of the roster hasn't either. It's not on Ziggler, it's on creative. 4 years ago everyone was on this guy's side and because of what the company did to him, everyone seems to be against him.
He's the perfect example of how WWE can completely damage someone. Like literally they've taken every bit of credibility away from him to the point where he is not even the same guy.
But kudos to him for sticking it out. Whether he's staying for the paycheck or his passion, I don't think a lot of guys would have stayed if they were treated like Ziggler. For every little bit of opportunity he was given, the company took away 100x that amount back.
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Post by WalterF on Jun 5, 2017 15:14:20 GMT -5
I love the guy, never given a consistent and push and could you blame him for being a bit chaffed after years and years? Anyway I still think he is amazing
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2017 15:14:50 GMT -5
Way too many false starts. He's a hell of a good worker, but it's hard to get behind him when he's failed so many times to prove he's a top guy.
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Post by Rated [R] NinJa on Jun 5, 2017 16:14:16 GMT -5
To me he's just simply not what he used to be. 100% this! 2012-2013 Ziggler was his best run imo. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2017 16:20:25 GMT -5
To me he's just simply not what he used to be. 100% this! 2012-2013 Ziggler was his best run imo. Ziggler in 2012 was his best overall run. He was dead in the water when they didn't push him after Survivor Series. |
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Post by IRS on Jun 5, 2017 16:22:24 GMT -5
I think most people, including Ziggler himself, realized he's gone as far as he'll go in WWE. And frankly, it feels like he's been going through the motions for a while - at least character-wise. He's still a good worker in the ring, and when motivated in a feud (like with Ambrose and Miz last year), can still show a glimmer of what could've been.
But the heel turn has been quite bland, and it's pretty clear he'll be stuck in mid-card purgatory for the rest of his career for the most part. I really hoped a heel turn could salvage some hope of him getting back into the main event scene as a legit threat, but all that great cockiness and swagger he used to have is just gone.
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Post by ahunter8056 on Jun 5, 2017 16:42:34 GMT -5
Because just like Zack Ryder, Dolph Ziggler is someone that WWE just do not want to book as a top star, despite very significant sustained levels of popularity. It's bewildering, but that's just how WWE is. Personally, I'd love to see Ziggler given far more than he has been given in recent years, but it's obvious that it will never happen.
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Jun 5, 2017 17:00:32 GMT -5
Serious question. If someone doesn't become a top guy or main eventer in WWE does that make them a failure?
It seems today that if fans have a favourite wrestler it's either the main event or nothing and if they don't reach the top they disown them.
Years ago you had guys like The Godfather and Kamala who you knew would never be top guys but that didn't stop people from liking them because back then fans accepted that certain wrestlers had ceilings.
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Post by Funk The Revival on Jun 5, 2017 17:03:09 GMT -5
Along with Punk, DZ was my favourite wrestler from 2010-2014. Still like him but now I just see him as a good hand instead of THE guy. Not entirely his fault by any means, don't see a reason to hate him
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Post by HHH316 on Jun 5, 2017 17:24:32 GMT -5
I love the guy and will never understand why they gave up on him like they did. The guy is as over as anyone in 2013, gets kicked in the head, and....done!? I've never given up on him, but it seems pretty clear that no matter how hard he worked, he wasn't going to get elevated, and I think he's accepted it.
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