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Post by k5 on Sept 21, 2017 15:22:41 GMT -5
they're probably the most talented athletes, but they're not the most skilled workers. they can't work.
the prime of the wwf was where vince scouted the territories, picked the best workers that had developed their skills, and let them shine.
hence the affinity for indie guys - they're the closest guys to true workers you'll see. what is a worker? a wrestler you can take any night, demanding any character or direction, and they make it work (make money). there are only a handful of workers left in the pro wrestling business but there's a whole lot of guys in tights who think they're wrestlers.
all the performances are overly polished and rehearsed and come off looking ridiculous and not emotionally engaging.
think about how we considered the ric flairs, the harley races, the dusty rhodes - we didn't think 'that guy is acting the character of ric flair', we thought 'that's ric flair! this wrestling might be nonsense but ric flair is ric flair!' and he's STILL working everyone, selling his character.
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Post by Triple S on Sept 21, 2017 15:24:22 GMT -5
Yes.
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torriefan4life
Superstar
Joined on: Mar 9, 2012 13:27:48 GMT -5
Posts: 812
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Post by torriefan4life on Sept 21, 2017 15:47:53 GMT -5
I think current fans like to say that because wrestling is so unpopular right now compared to what it once was, that they just want something to brag about. I was far more entertained as a viewer watching 80's, 90's and early to mid 00's than I am now. I see the same moves performed week in and week out on current WWE, and the matches all feel like spot fests now that have clearly been rehearsed. You had a more natural flow back in the day with the in ring action, and when you would get a long technical match, it meant something. The characters they have now are all pretty dry, considering most character development is just give this person a nickname and repeat it 25 times during their match. And back to in ring talent.....I just don't see this roster being super by any means. What do they do that is so amazing? Have 30 minute matches full of slow paced moves that any wrestler could pull off and just sprinkle in some signature moves here and there? I just don't see it, mic skills seem to be a very big weakness to most of the current roster so they don't have a lot of talent there. I think this is one of the weakest rosters in the history of WWE to be honest. That's not on the workers, that's on the agents and the company for insisting on a sh tty style that includes no more than 4 "types" of matches. Character development is also on the writing team. It's also obvious that you're jesting (trolling) with the "slow paced moves anyone could pull off". Maybe you're talking about your boy, Stroman? But I doubt Dino Bravo could do 1/10 of what Cesaro does. And you know that. Watch a freaking Claudio match from Noah or something and tell me the guy is nothing but slow paced moves with "some signatures sprinkled in"... lol jeesh man, have a little dignity when you offer up a view point. Maybe you don't *like* the characters as much today, but it's borderline libel to say that they're not as good in ring as they've ever been. As far as Star Power goes, it's really going to depend on when you were born/started watching. But I don't think it's quite right to throw Austin in with the 03-04 squad of guys, considering he worked 1 match. And not for nothing, that's a HUGE chunk out of 03's claim. Austin's the biggest ever. Austin's "star power" eclipses around 25 of the 92 Royal Rumble participants combined. So taking him away really hurts. I got a good laugh out of your response. I don't feel like responding again, as it is clear you don't see things the way I do (that is fine). You seem to have a hard time accepting that other people have opinions that don't match your own.
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Deleted
Joined on: May 6, 2024 19:53:22 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2017 16:11:31 GMT -5
I think the talent was the best in 2014-15. Before guys like Gargano, Ohno, Black, Asuka and so on were in? Mate you trippin'
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Hitman Bono
Main Eventer
WF 10 Year Member
The Sunday Jeff of it all...
Joined on: Apr 2, 2002 23:16:46 GMT -5
Posts: 3,101
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Post by Hitman Bono on Sept 21, 2017 16:17:59 GMT -5
That's not on the workers, that's on the agents and the company for insisting on a sh tty style that includes no more than 4 "types" of matches. Character development is also on the writing team. It's also obvious that you're jesting (trolling) with the "slow paced moves anyone could pull off". Maybe you're talking about your boy, Stroman? But I doubt Dino Bravo could do 1/10 of what Cesaro does. And you know that. Watch a freaking Claudio match from Noah or something and tell me the guy is nothing but slow paced moves with "some signatures sprinkled in"... lol jeesh man, have a little dignity when you offer up a view point. Maybe you don't *like* the characters as much today, but it's borderline libel to say that they're not as good in ring as they've ever been. As far as Star Power goes, it's really going to depend on when you were born/started watching. But I don't think it's quite right to throw Austin in with the 03-04 squad of guys, considering he worked 1 match. And not for nothing, that's a HUGE chunk out of 03's claim. Austin's the biggest ever. Austin's "star power" eclipses around 25 of the 92 Royal Rumble participants combined. So taking him away really hurts. I got a good laugh out of your response. I don't feel like responding again, as it is clear you don't see things the way I do (that is fine). You seem to have a hard time accepting that other people have opinions that don't match your own. I mean, if you're talking about the Star Power thing.. Sure, that's all SUBJECTIVE. I was just sharing my OPINION on that matter. I wouldn't die fighting for either 92 or 03 when it comes to that. I'll flip flop depending on my mood. As far as they agents dictating the style? That's not an opinion? It's not my opinion that the sky is blue? It's not my opinion that ketchup is red? It's not my opinion that grass is green? lol, are you really trying to say that the words "facts" and "opinions" share a definition? 'Cause that's uh... that's strange. Also, know the difference between "I say that is GOOD." and "I like that!". You never have to defend what you like. But if you're confident enough in your opinion, one shouldn't shy away why one thinks something is "good". If you think Dino Bravo was "good" then you should try to back it up with facts. If you say you "like" Dino Bravo, well then, that's all I need! I freaking LOVED Virgil as a kid, but I'm not saying he's better than Dolph Ziggler. And if you'd like to climb a hill and say that Dino Bravo could do half of what Cesaro does, please, climb that hill man, I'd love to see the mental gymnastics! I won't even respond dude, please. PLEASE do that!
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Post by greenjack1992 on Sept 21, 2017 17:53:53 GMT -5
Every generation of wrestlers tops the last with their in-ring performance. It frightens me to imagine what wrestling will look like in another twenty years.
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Post by TheSystem 1.5 on Sept 21, 2017 17:59:45 GMT -5
Once again, IWC isn't a thing anymore. Too many people have access to the internet, too many people use it to find wrestling outside of WWE even fans that have been watching for decades. Stop using it as a way to justify your own jaded opinions.
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Sept 21, 2017 18:09:57 GMT -5
It's the best roster since the Attitude Era for sure. I look back at 2003/2012 and basically hundreds of guys came and went and didn't draw a dime. But I look at this roster and most of the guys entertain me and I believe they will be remembered in years to come.
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Deleted
Joined on: May 6, 2024 19:53:22 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2017 18:31:08 GMT -5
Most athletically "Talented" for WWE maybe, Wcw had a ton of wrestlers that could turn heads with their wrestling skills.
Paul Roma is a great example of what many people are talking about here
Paul Roma was an Amazing athlete, He could stand on the top rope and pull off a seamless and beautiful Diving sunset flip. He was a great High Flyer , he could wrestle , but he couldnt get over . It reminds me of the current roster, most of them have good looks, good moves, but they dont have enough charisma to get people to invest in them like entertainers like Steve Austin and Randy Savage did.
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Post by Escape The Rules on Sept 21, 2017 19:09:23 GMT -5
I've gotten one of my friends back into the current product and he says the same thing: that the wrestlers today are much better in the ring than they were years ago, but the problem every week is that they either lack personality or charisma, or the writing sucks.
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Hitman Bono
Main Eventer
WF 10 Year Member
The Sunday Jeff of it all...
Joined on: Apr 2, 2002 23:16:46 GMT -5
Posts: 3,101
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Post by Hitman Bono on Sept 21, 2017 19:50:16 GMT -5
I've gotten one of my friends back into the current product and he says the same thing: that the wrestlers today are much better in the ring than they were years ago, but the problem every week is that they either lack personality or charisma, or the writing sucks. It's like, compare The Bushwhackers with The Fashion Police. Both low on the depth chart in the tag division. Both comedy based. But we'd see The 'Whackers on a regular basis, be it a bi-monthly squash match, a skit on Primetime, or hosting a video release. Compare that with how they've handled the FP (the definition of schizophrenic booking) and it's really, REALLY hard to put that blame on the talent. Obviously, there will be examples that prove the opposite, but I think Whackers/FP is a good analogy here.
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Post by Rated [R] NinJa on Sept 21, 2017 20:13:07 GMT -5
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Post by Escape The Rules on Sept 21, 2017 20:14:48 GMT -5
I've gotten one of my friends back into the current product and he says the same thing: that the wrestlers today are much better in the ring than they were years ago, but the problem every week is that they either lack personality or charisma, or the writing sucks. It's like, compare The Bushwhackers with The Fashion Police. Both low on the depth chart in the tag division. Both comedy based. But we'd see The 'Whackers on a regular basis, be it a bi-monthly squash match, a skit on Primetime, or hosting a video release. Compare that with how they've handled the FP (the definition of schizophrenic booking) and it's really, REALLY hard to put that blame on the talent. Obviously, there will be examples that prove the opposite, but I think Whackers/FP is a good analogy here. His main gripe is pretty much the writing and the booking, and the fact that they'd rather push guys like Roman Reigns, Jinder Mahal and Baron Corbin over guys that are clearly leaps and bounds better than them.
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Post by Nivro™ on Sept 21, 2017 20:29:58 GMT -5
Ill take the 91-92 roster over anything WWE has put on TV.
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Post by Kanenite on Sept 21, 2017 22:31:07 GMT -5
In terms of in-ring talent, I gotta go with 2000.
You had guys like Austin who perfected the Brawling style, Rock who could sell his ass off, guys like Kane and Albert who were strong powerhouses but were also fast, guys like the Hardyz, E&C and The Dudley Boys who could put on amazing Tag Team and gimmick matches, and guys like Jericho, Guerrero, Benoit, Malenko, Angle, Saturn, and Regal who were technical aces.
And on top of that, these guys were OVER. They had In Ring talent, AND Charisma. TV was good back then. Even if matches were sometimes "sub-par" you were invested in the storytelling so much that it was better than if the current talent put on a match like that today because there isn't anything to fall back on.... nobody is invested in a majority of the characters/angles anymore because of the crap booking or the talent simply doesn't have "it". The "overness" of the talent really adds to the matches, which puts a year like 2000 near the top in my book.
I think the closest they came to 2000 in the last 5 years or so would be 2013. The In-Ring work of guys like Bryan, Punk, Cesaro, Orton, Rollins, Ambrose, Rhodes, Jericho, RVD, and Christian were pretty notable that year.
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Post by Vamp55 on Sept 22, 2017 6:40:01 GMT -5
Today's wrestling sucks. End of story... you could stop watching for 6 months and not miss a thing...
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Post by Glorydaysofwrestling on Sept 22, 2017 6:46:37 GMT -5
Definitely not. Maybe the roster with the most flips or the most spots with a million reversals, or the most finishers, or the most predictable match formula.
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Post by 5th Horsewoman on Sept 22, 2017 6:50:28 GMT -5
I think current fans like to say that because wrestling is so unpopular right now compared to what it once was, that they just want something to brag about. I was far more entertained as a viewer watching 80's, 90's and early to mid 00's than I am now. Completely agree.
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Post by The American Daydream on Sept 22, 2017 6:56:33 GMT -5
Definitely not. Maybe the roster with the most flips or the most spots with a million reversals, or the most finishers, or the most predictable match formula. I think wrestling had ALWAYS been predictable, even more so when Hogan was the top babyface. Hell the only real time wrestling wasnt AS predictable was in the Attitude Era. Some folks didnt like it, some did but even with all its flaws, it was fun.
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Post by alanpartridge on Sept 22, 2017 7:35:50 GMT -5
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