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Post by ThugSuperstar on Sept 27, 2007 9:24:43 GMT -5
You guys know how this works...I'll go first.
New York Yankees Overall Grade: B+ Record: 91-67 Standings: 2nd place in AL East, clinced playoff berth Team MVP: Alex Rodriguez Team LVP: Kei Igawa Best Starting Pitcher: Andy Pettitte Worst Starting Pitcher: Kei Igawa Best Relief Pitcher: Joba Chamberlain Worst Relief Pitcher: Kyle Farnsworth
Staff: Joe Torre (Manager) - A- Ron Guidry (Pitching Coach) - B Kevin Long (Hitting Coach) - A
Position Players: C Jose Molina - A- C Jorge Posada - A+ 1B Doug Mientkiewicz - B+ 1B Jason Giambi - C- 1B Wilson Betemit - B- 1B Shelley Duncan - B 1B Andy Phillips - B+ 2B Robinson Cano - A- 2B Alberto Gonzalez - Inc. SS Derek Jeter - A 3B Alex Rodriguez - A+ RF Bobby Abreu - B+ CF Melky Cabrera - A- CF Bronson Sardinha - Inc. LF Hideki Matsui - B+ LF Johnny Damon - B-
Pitchers: Chien-Ming Wang - A- Andy Pettitte - A+ Mike Mussina - D Roger Clemens - B Kei Igawa - F----------------------------------- Ian Kennedy - B+ Phil Hughes - C+
Joba Chamberlain - A+ Mariano Rivera - A- Sean Henn - D Luis Vizcaino - B+ Ross Ohlendorf - B+ Edwar Ramirez - C- Ron Villone - C- Jose Veras - C Brian Bruney - D Jeff Karstens - F Matt DeSalvo - D Tyler Clippard - C Carl Pavano - F---------------------------------------- Chase Wright - D Kyle Farnsworth - D- Chris Britton - C Darrell Rasner - C-
Overall Final Thoughts: An incredible second-half got us into the postseason, which is quite frankly amazing considering where this team was at in May. Kudos to the team for finally waking up and playing like they're supposed to before it was too late.
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on Sept 27, 2007 10:04:02 GMT -5
Explain how Clemens gets an A pretty much giving you 5th starter results and a question mark for the playoffs even though he is the highest paid player in the game
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Post by ThugSuperstar on Sept 27, 2007 12:49:26 GMT -5
Well, you'd have a point except for the fact that I gave Clemens a B and not an A.
My reason for giving him that grade is because without him, this team definitely doesn't make the playoffs. He gave this team everything I expected from him...if you were expecting NL-esque stats in the AL, you were setting yourself up for a dissapointment. Clemens has been a solid number 3 or 4 starter, which was what he was brought back to be. He wasn't supposed to be an ace.
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on Sept 27, 2007 13:02:05 GMT -5
Yeah the pinstripes blinded me, I assumed you would give him an A.
So Clemens 6 wins/4.18ERA/1.31WHIP def put you guys in the playoffs.
It was your offense big fella.
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Post by ThugSuperstar on Sept 27, 2007 13:10:30 GMT -5
Without Clemens, this team only has 2 reliable pitchers. Wang and Pettitte have been excellent all year, but Mussina has sucked and Hughes was hurt. You're telling me that if Clemens isn't brought back and we go the rest of the year with, say, Igawa as our 5th starter, we would have made the playoffs?
The offense woke up, like you said...but you need good pitching to be able to win. Roger was the best mid-season move we could have made and it didn't cost us any of our farm system. It was worth it, to me at least.
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on Sept 27, 2007 13:23:08 GMT -5
Considering you won the wild card or whatever by 4 games, and Clemens who only gave you 10 quality starts out of 18, not to mention he gave up a hit an inning since coming back, and was pretty much Kei Igawa at times.
My point is, Clemens was not much of a help for the Yankees. Their offense that essentially vaulted Chin Mang Wang or whatever into Ace consideration is what carried a so-so pitching staff all year.
8th in the league in ERA 8th in Quality Starts 8th in ER 7th in Batting Average Against 7th in Runs
Then you look at that offense..... 1st in runs 1st in HR 1st in RBI 2nd in Hits 2nd in TB 1st in Batting Average 1in OBP
Get my drift?
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Post by bjd on Sept 27, 2007 13:42:46 GMT -5
New York Yankees Overall Grade: B Record: 91-67 Standings: 2nd place in AL East, clinced playoff berth Team MVP: Alex Rodriguez Team LVP: Carl Pavano Best Starting Pitcher: Andy Pettitte Worst Starting Pitcher: Kei Igawa Best Relief Pitcher: Mariano Rivera(Chamberlain doesn't count... didn't pitch enough) Worst Relief Pitcher: Kyle Farnsworth
Staff: Joe Torre (Manager) - B+ Ron Guidry (Pitching Coach) - B- Kevin Long (Hitting Coach) - A(when you're working with All Stars, do you really have to do much... heck, the only guy he really helped was Carlos Pena, and he's on another team)
Position Players: C Jose Molina - B+ C Jorge Posada - A+ 1B Doug Mientkiewicz - B 1B Jason Giambi - C- 1B Wilson Betemit - C+ 1B Shelley Duncan - B 1B Andy Phillips - C+ 2B Robinson Cano - B+ 2B Alberto Gonzalez - Inc. SS Derek Jeter - A 3B Alex Rodriguez - A+ RF Bobby Abreu - B+ CF Melky Cabrera - B CF Bronson Sardinha - Inc. LF Hideki Matsui - B+ LF Johnny Damon - C+
Pitchers: Chien-Ming Wang - A Andy Pettitte - A Mike Mussina - C- Roger Clemens - B- Kei Igawa - F Ian Kennedy - B+ Phil Hughes - C+
Joba Chamberlain - A+ Mariano Rivera - A Sean Henn - D Luis Vizcaino - B Ross Ohlendorf - B+/Inc... I'd give him a B+ based on the short amount of work he's had. Edwar Ramirez - C- Ron Villone - C Jose Veras - C- Brian Bruney - C Jeff Karstens - F Matt DeSalvo - D Tyler Clippard - C- Carl Pavano is a failure at life. He is human garbage. Chase Wright - D Kyle Farnsworth - D Chris Britton - C Darrell Rasner - C-
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on Sept 27, 2007 13:44:38 GMT -5
I am not going to lie, I had no idea the Yankees even had a hitting coach and the fact that it was some guy I had never heard of, makes it even more surprising.
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GP™
Main Eventer
Joined on: Feb 11, 2007 8:22:31 GMT -5
Posts: 2,859
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Post by GP™ on Sept 27, 2007 13:45:25 GMT -5
New York Yankees Overall Grade: Record: 91-67 Standings: 2nd place in AL East, clinced playoff berth Team MVP: Alex Rodriguez Team LVP: Kei Igawa Best Starting Pitcher: Andy Pettitte Worst Starting Pitcher: Kei Igawa/Chase Wright Best Relief Pitcher: Joba Chamberlain Worst Relief Pitcher: Kyle Farnsworth Staff: Joe Torre (Manager) - B Ron Guidry (Pitching Coach) - B- Kevin Long (Hitting Coach) - A- Position Players: C Jose Molina - A C Jorge Posada - A+ 1B Doug Mientkiewicz - B- 1B Jason Giambi - C 1B Wilson Betemit - B 1B Shelley Duncan - B+ 1B Andy Phillips - B- 2B Robinson Cano - A- 2B Alberto Gonzalez - Inc. SS Derek Jeter - A 3B Alex Rodriguez - A+ RF Bobby Abreu - B CF Melky Cabrera - A CF Bronson Sardinha - Inc. LF Hideki Matsui - B- LF Johnny Damon - B- Pitchers: Chien-Ming Wang - A- Andy Pettitte - A Mike Mussina - B- Roger Clemens - C+ Kei Igawa - Z (yeah, I said it.) Ian Kennedy - Didn't see much of him, so, can't really tell. Phil Hughes - B Joba Chamberlain - A+++++++++++++++++++ Mariano Rivera - A Sean Henn - F------------------- Luis Vizcaino - B Ross Ohlendorf - Didn't see much of him, so, can't really tell. Edwar Ramirez - B+ Ron Villone - C- Jose Veras - Didn't see much of him, so, can't really tell. Brian Bruney - D- Jeff Karstens - F--------------------------- Matt DeSalvo - D+ Tyler Clippard - C- Carl Pavano - sucks. Chase Wright - F------------------------------ Kyle Farnsworth - F------------------- Chris Britton - C- Darrell Rasner - D
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Post by bjd on Sept 27, 2007 13:47:55 GMT -5
I am not going to lie, I had no idea the Yankees even had a hitting coach and the fact that it was some guy I had never heard of, makes it even more surprising. The only thing I know about Kevin Long is that he is the guy Carlos Pena gives credit to correcting his swing mechanics... so maybe he should dig up Ben Grieve and all the other relics in MLB and try to rise their corpses from the dead too.
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Post by bjd on Sept 27, 2007 13:52:14 GMT -5
I can't accept anyone putting Kei Igawa as the team's least valuable player over Pavano... Granted, they both suck and deserve gonorrhea, but I can recall a couple of instances of Kei Igawa giving the team something positive... including 2 nights ago when he had a solid start. Carl Pavano contributes absolutely nothing to society.
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Post by T R W on Sept 27, 2007 14:35:04 GMT -5
Andruw Jones - F-
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Post by hardyz on Sept 27, 2007 14:47:26 GMT -5
Pirates..................................................................................................................................E I would have given the team an F, but they made some good changes at the end of season in staff. The reason they did not get a D is because of their game today.....
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Post by ThugSuperstar on Sept 27, 2007 15:57:55 GMT -5
Considering you won the wild card or whatever by 4 games, and Clemens who only gave you 10 quality starts out of 18, not to mention he gave up a hit an inning since coming back, and was pretty much Kei Igawa at times. My point is, Clemens was not much of a help for the Yankees. Their offense that essentially vaulted Chin Mang Wang or whatever into Ace consideration is what carried a so-so pitching staff all year. 8th in the league in ERA 8th in Quality Starts 8th in ER 7th in Batting Average Against 7th in Runs Then you look at that offense..... 1st in runs 1st in HR 1st in RBI 2nd in Hits 2nd in TB 1st in Batting Average 1in OBP Get my drift? I don't really care how many stats you throw at me...to say that Roger Clemens' role here was essentially the same as if we stuck with Igawa, Chase Wright or Matt DeSalvo all year is just totally assinine. Clemens was an average pitcher in the AL, which was what I expected and what I was hoping for. The Yankees didn't need him to be Superman and save the entire rotation...he just needed to go 5 or 6 innings and pitch the way he's capable of. Most of the time, that's exactly what he did.
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on Sept 27, 2007 16:01:14 GMT -5
One day you will understand the world outside Yankee stadium.
Lets pretend money is an issue, and that this team does not have bottomless pockets.
Did 28$ million for what Clemens gave you worth it considering you could trot out an Ian Kennedy or a whomever for 27$ million less and with a team that averaged 6+ runs a game...would that really have changed a lot?
Probably not.
It's cool, rah rah Rogah.
Not to mention, good possibility that he might not even help you when it really mattered...in October.
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on Sept 27, 2007 16:06:41 GMT -5
Boston Red Sox:
People who have not sucked and I actually like:
David Ortiz Mike Lowell Josh Beckett Jonathan Papelbon Dustin Pedroia
People who have been good and servicable:
Kevin Youkilis Curt Schilling Dice K Hideki Okajima Manny Delcarmen Jon Lester Tim Wakefield Julian Tavarez
People who just sucked:
Mike Timlin Coco Crisp Kyle Snyder Jason Varitek Manny Ramirez
People who have just been wastes of human matter:
Julio Lugo JD Drew Doug Mirabelli Eric Gagne Eric Hinske Alex Cora
People that will make me happy in the future:
JD Drew Clay Buchholz Jacoby Ellsbury
I know the Sox homers will come in here and say OMZ JACOBY MVPP HEZN DA NEXT TIE COBB HEHELO L!
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Post by bjd on Sept 27, 2007 16:11:50 GMT -5
When you're paying for a guy like Clemens, you're paying for the name... everyone with half a brain knew the yankees weren't getting 28 million dollars worth of production from Clemens... what pitcher in the majors gives you that anyway? He was paid to lure him out of Texas, and paid for a marquis name... there aren't many bigger names in baseball history than Roger Clemens.
I don't know what the result would have been hadn't the Yankees signed Clemens... but I don't get involved in team finances. It wasn't my money spent to sign him. The team screwed up this off-season giving Kei Igawa a big contract, giving Pavano a big contract a few years back.... the rotation needed help, and they had to overpay to get it.
However, if you're telling me we're going into next season with Wang, Pettitte, Mussina, Hughes and Chamberlain... I'm pretty happy with that, and don't feel another dime has to be spent on starting pitching.
And yes, Mussina has made it perfectly clear his career isn't "finished" as some people would probably want you to believe... you don't pitch with stuff that he has shown in his past three outings if your career is over.
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Post by Cult Member BriGuy on Sept 27, 2007 16:16:08 GMT -5
Jenks, Thome, and Fields were good for the White Sox this year.
Contreras was not.
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Post by ThugSuperstar on Sept 27, 2007 16:26:31 GMT -5
One day you will understand the world outside Yankee stadium. Lets pretend money is an issue, and that this team does not have bottomless pockets. Did 28$ million for what Clemens gave you worth it considering you could trot out an Ian Kennedy or a whomever for 27$ million less and with a team that averaged 6+ runs a game...would that really have changed a lot? Probably not. It's cool, rah rah Rogah. Not to mention, good possibility that he might not even help you when it really mattered...in October. Considering the fact that Igawa, Clippard, and DeSalvo were all giving up more than 6 runs a game, hell yes it would have changed things. I guess you don't understand the fact that a team's 3rd starter doesn't have to put up a 3.00 ERA. Clemens was brought here NOT TO BE THE ACE OF THE STAFF! We already had Pettitte and Wang at the top of our rotation when we signed him. Considering the fact that I predicted he'd finish the season with a 4.50 ERA, I'm satisfied with what we got from him. We already called up Joba and Hughes, but you think rushing Kennedy back in May would have helped the team in the long run? The best part of the Clemens deal was the fact that the Yankees basically acquired a solid, middle of the rotation, dependable starter that other teams would have raped them for at the deadline. Anyone the Yankees tried to get would have cost them Joba, Hughes, Horne, Clippard, Kennedy or a combination of those guys. Clemens gave this team the same thing they tried to get out of Lidle and Chacon back when they made those deals the previous 2 years. The best part of the Clemens deal is that you're not on hook for him next year. The Yankees are looking at a rotation of Pettitte, Mussina, Wang, Hughes, Joba/ Kennedy. As far as the money goes...I don't care if this team gave him $500,000 or $30 million. It's not my money, and it's not like handing out green paper is going to kill our farm system like the organization has done in the past. Money is never going to keep the Yankees from getting what they want, so people just need to stop whining about it and get over it. Boston is 2nd in the league in total payroll and spent a TON of money in the offseason that no one seems to talk about.
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Post by bjd on Sept 27, 2007 16:28:49 GMT -5
Some people seem to forget the absurd amount of money invested into Dice-4.48 ERA
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