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Post by cordless2016 on Mar 17, 2020 20:27:25 GMT -5
Hoping we can keep this to the topic at hand and keep it civil.
I’ve been watching various shows from 2003-2007 and it’s crazy to me that Benoit was dropped from the main event after 2004. Even after loosing the world title at SummerSlam 2004 he remained in the upper card until New Years Revolution 2005 where he main evented his final WWE PPV. After that, Benoit dropped back to the upper midcard and remained a staple in the US Title scene from 2005-2007.
My question is why? Yes his title reign struggled to draw, but he was essentially the third wheel behind HHH and HBK during that time. The fans were always universally behind him during that time, and the commentators continually mentioned him being a former world champ when fighting for the US Title (something they don’t really do today when guys drop back down the card).
I always thought it was funny they moved Angle to SD in ‘06 when Benoit could have easily carried the title for 3 months (I get SD was lacking stars but Benoit was seen by many on Kurt’s level at the time). Just weird to me that Benoit seemed to be dropped despite fans loving him.
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Mar 17, 2020 21:33:33 GMT -5
I often wondered that too.
My theory is that Vince never really had any real plans to push Benoit or Guerrero. I think he did that for the wrestling fans in 2004 before we got Cena and Batista a year later. There was no way those guys were gonna be WWE or World Champion again when Vince had Cena as his number 1 and Batista has his second in command.
I do believe Benoit was set to be the face of ECW and be the ECW World Champion if it wasn't for that horrible weekend in June.
I think if Benoit was mentally healthy he would have been the face of ECW until he chose to retire.
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Post by Kill Em' All on Mar 17, 2020 21:44:06 GMT -5
Beniot as mentioned would carry ECW like Christian did in 2009. Eddie was slotted to get another World Title run in 2005/2006. I think just lack of interest in Beniot by WWE.
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Post by RuthlessFigs on Mar 17, 2020 23:09:28 GMT -5
The way i see it is like this
He was obviously over in 2004 and they ran with it. Even though the title reign was a bit underwhelming, all the new stars were starting to shine and everyone getting behind them towards the middle/end of 04 (Orton, Cena, Batista etc...), so Benoit was a bit out of place since he wasn't a top heel or a young new star.
Then by 2005, they were running with the new guys as their Main Eventers, against guys like Triple H (Because 2000's H), JBL (Golden boy to Vince) & Undertaker (It's Taker). So there just wasn't a spot for him in the Main Event, plus the mid card needed that credible face, which he was perfect for since there weren't that many names you could put there at the time.
So i think that role was kind of stuck with him for the rest of 05-07, mainly because all the Main Event feuds were busy with a particular story.
- Rey winning the Rumble and fighting for Eddie
- Cena becoming the face of WWE
- Booker T transitioning to King Booker
- Establishing Kennedy
- Taker winning the Rumble
So he pretty much carried the SD mid card for those years while still being one of the most popular guys on the whole roster. He always got one of the biggest pops of the night every time he came out, so fans were still very invested in him. He got one of the top 3 pops at WrestleMania 23, the crowd erupted for him...
The one opportunity for him to shoot back into the Main Event was sadly the weekend he died, he was meant to win the ECW Title and clearly carry the brand since RVD & Angle were gone, Lashley was drafted to Raw, and Punk wasn't ready yet.
Had he not died, i think he would've carried ECW perfectly and would have become even more popular. If he didn't die in 07 and if he wasn't expected to die in 08, he easily would have carried ECW until it was either cancelled or he retired. Because he was basically at that stage where he could carry a brand and put young guys over without taking any damage to his credibility. And i doubt they would have drafted back to Raw or SD in the 08/09 drafts.
Even though i love his best of seven with MVP (Highly underrated matches), personally, i would have drafted him to ECW at the relaunch in 06. Give ECW 4 draft picks, RVD/Show & Angle/Benoit. That way you have 4 top names - 2 ECW originals, repackaged Angle, and a 'WWE' heel Big Show.
Benoit would have thrived there and definitely would've been in the Main Event with Big Show after RVD got busted. Plus with that extra big name there, WWE might have given Angle the time off he wanted, recharge his batteries before returning possibly at the Rumble 07. To which Benoit & Angle would have been a perfect feud for the ECW title, which also makes me think if either of them would have represented Trump instead of Lashley at WM23, or if both of them would have had a 1 on 1 for the title.
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Post by Kill Em' All on Mar 17, 2020 23:45:54 GMT -5
I think certain guys fall victim to there is so much going on. Like Alberto Delrio worked very well in 2010-2014. And most likely was at the peak of his run in say 2013. But, if he came back today he wouldn't have main event push imo. Or say Austin post Vengeance 2001. Austin became less and less of vocal point. Say Austin went to 2005-2006, I personally think to much was going on that would prevent him from being at the top.
If anything I feel more bad for Eddie. SmackDown in 2004 after the draft was real ugly. For minute there was like no main event players. I liked JBL's run with the gold, but other then that I really could not give damn about SmackDown in 2004. And I think personally where SmackDown was beating Raw in 2002/2003. Raw was far better then SmackDown in 2004-2006.
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Post by The Brain on Mar 18, 2020 6:02:54 GMT -5
It's a shame we never got another Angle/Benoit classic after 2003. Imagine if we got the two for Big Gold at Rumble 06 with Mark Henry being in the Rumble match instead.
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Post by JokerFC on Mar 20, 2020 18:27:47 GMT -5
Yeah I think 2004 was a "thank you" to both men and there was no long terms plans for them both to be on top of the card. But saying that there did seem to be reluctance to put Chris back up there when there was opportunities for a "reliable hand" to step in.
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Mar 21, 2020 0:55:23 GMT -5
The funny thing about the Benoit World Title reign looking back, is that the entire time he was on top they were grooming Orton and Batista to be the next two top stars on that brand and we didn't even realize it until SummerSlam that year.
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Post by cordless2016 on Mar 22, 2020 18:58:32 GMT -5
Yeah I think 2004 was a "thank you" to both men and there was no long terms plans for them both to be on top of the card. But saying that there did seem to be reluctance to put Chris back up there when there was opportunities for a "reliable hand" to step in. That’s what made me write this. The reluctance on the WWE’s part to put him in any main event feud post 2004 is what was so strange. From his debut in 2000 to his neck injury a year and a half later, Benoit was transitioned between the main event and midcard quite a few times. He even had two false-WWF Title wins during that time. When he returned in 2002, he seemed to pick up where he left off and was transitioned between the midcard and main event quite a bit before finally getting the Royal Rumble win in 2004. Post 2004, it’s like they completely dropped him from the main event. He became a staple in the US Title scene, and never really got a chance to be featured in a main event feud again. Following Batista going down in January 2006, it seemed like Benoit would have been the easy choice to carry the world title for 3 months to WM. (Angle was great but the fact he moved to ECW 5 months later made him moving back to Smackdown pointless). Like others said he was originally going to dominate ECW as the top guy after being moved there in 2007, but let’s be honest, the ECW Title by that point was worth no more than a midcard title on one of the two main shows. I see what others were saying that the WWE was focused on pushing new and fresher talent, but if Eddie, HBK, Taker, etc... could still be featured in the main event from time to time, there no reason Benoit could have. I honestly feel Vince blamed him for the low ratings in 2004 despite playing third wheel to HHH and HBK. A lot of people say Heyman was Benoit’s big supporter behind the scenes, and like you said it was likely a “thank you” and nothing more. Once the ratings came in as well, Vince likely blamed Benoit and that was the end of him in the main event. |
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Post by Bandalero on Mar 22, 2020 19:53:18 GMT -5
I didn't follow WWE religiously during that era, but it's probably well documented that the guys Vince loved were guys that looked like Cena, Orton, Batista, Trips - big, tall, body builder types, and most importantly - products of the WWE machine. While Eddie and Chris did bulk up with the anabolic steriods, no matter how gifted they were in the ring, they were still short and more importantly weren't a product of the WWE machine, so Vince really had no interest in these guys.
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Post by keegandimitrijevic01 on Mar 22, 2020 20:57:18 GMT -5
Hoping we can keep this to the topic at hand and keep it civil. I’ve been watching various shows from 2003-2007 and it’s crazy to me that Benoit was dropped from the main event after 2004. Even after loosing the world title at SummerSlam 2004 he remained in the upper card until New Years Revolution 2005 where he main evented his final WWE PPV. After that, Benoit dropped back to the upper midcard and remained a staple in the US Title scene from 2005-2007. My question is why? Yes his title reign struggled to draw, but he was essentially the third wheel behind HHH and HBK during that time. The fans were always universally behind him during that time, and the commentators continually mentioned him being a former world champ when fighting for the US Title (something they don’t really do today when guys drop back down the card). I always thought it was funny they moved Angle to SD in ‘06 when Benoit could have easily carried the title for 3 months (I get SD was lacking stars but Benoit was seen by many on Kurt’s level at the time). Just weird to me that Benoit seemed to be dropped despite fans loving him. You make a lot of valid points. I feel like his World Heavyweight Title win at WrestleMania XX was more of a "you deserve it, so we'll give it to you" thing and they had no plans for him being a marquee attraction. It annoyed me that he didn't have a high profile feud with The Undertaker when they were on the same brand for three years straight; it seemed inevitable. In addition, I think he should've had 1-2 more World Championship runs (especially in 2006). Chris Benoit and The Undertaker should've been Smackdown's marquee feud in 2006 with the severe lack of starpower that brand had (Orton suspended, then moved to Raw, Batista injured, Rey Mysterio Injured, Kurt going to ECW and leaving, JBL retiring, etc). Had he not passed in 2007, I think he would've eventually went back to Smackdown in 2008/2009 and won the WWE Championship before he retired |
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Post by keegandimitrijevic01 on Mar 22, 2020 20:59:26 GMT -5
I didn't follow WWE religiously during that era, but it's probably well documented that the guys Vince loved were guys that looked like Cena, Orton, Batista, Trips - big, tall, body builder types, and most importantly - products of the WWE machine. While Eddie and Chris did bulk up with the anabolic steriods, no matter how gifted they were in the ring, they were still short and more importantly weren't a product of the WWE machine, so Vince really had no interest in these guys. Vince actually loved Eddie Guerrero and thought of him as a top guy. The only reason Eddie Guerrero wasn't pushed at the top of the card in 2002/2203 was because they were waiting to see how his personal life was going before they pulled the trigger on making him the main attraction of Smackdown. Since his WWE Championship win, he was at the top of the card and proved to the office that he was reliable |
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Post by cordless2016 on Mar 23, 2020 7:59:59 GMT -5
I didn't follow WWE religiously during that era, but it's probably well documented that the guys Vince loved were guys that looked like Cena, Orton, Batista, Trips - big, tall, body builder types, and most importantly - products of the WWE machine. While Eddie and Chris did bulk up with the anabolic steriods, no matter how gifted they were in the ring, they were still short and more importantly weren't a product of the WWE machine, so Vince really had no interest in these guys. Vince actually loved Eddie Guerrero and thought of him as a top guy. The only reason Eddie Guerrero wasn't pushed at the top of the card in 2002/2203 was because they were waiting to see how his personal life was going before they pulled the trigger on making him the main attraction of Smackdown. Since his WWE Championship win, he was at the top of the card and proved to the office that he was reliable I wouldn’t say Vince loved Eddie and saw him as a top guy until around late 2003. On his podcast Bruce Pritchard has said that Heyman and himself had to do a lot of pushing for Eddie to get a shot at the top. Once he did, Vince seemed to view him as a top guy due to his constant floating around the upper midcard and main event during the final few years of his life. But Bruce has said Vince wasn’t on board right away with Eddie as a top guy. When the Radicalz came in he even said that Benoit and Saturn were the two Vince fell in love with and saw Eddie with Dean and just extra guys but nothing special. |
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Post by greenjack1992 on Mar 23, 2020 8:15:30 GMT -5
I always felt like Benoit's stint at the top was more of a recognition of his career contributions - like a lifetime achievement award - than a sign of things to come. It was clear that Vince saw him as a good hand that he could call on for a lot of roles, but the move to ECW and the decision to pin the brand on him was a clear indicator that he was going to be more a player-coach for the young lads than anything else. Even if what happened hadn't have happened, Benoit was clearly winding down.
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Post by keegandimitrijevic01 on Mar 23, 2020 11:02:39 GMT -5
I always felt like Benoit's stint at the top was more of a recognition of his career contributions - like a lifetime achievement award - than a sign of things to come. It was clear that Vince saw him as a good hand that he could call on for a lot of roles, but the move to ECW and the decision to pin the brand on him was a clear indicator that he was going to be more a player-coach for the young lads than anything else. Even if what happened hadn't have happened, Benoit was clearly winding down. I think he only would've wrestled another year, probably putting over CM Punk at WrestleMania XXIV nad riding off into the sunset. Then he probably would've been inducted into the Hall of Fame in 2011 in Atlanta, and maybe faced The Undertaker at WrestleMania XXVII in one last farewell match in Georgia |
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Post by Kill Em' All on Apr 1, 2020 2:38:50 GMT -5
Beniot would most likely have really long run with the ECW title in 2007 imo. Pull through WrestleMania 24, maybe even finish up there. At max I see him going until 2009.
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