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Post by newgenandy on Mar 15, 2021 15:53:54 GMT -5
I know the kids playing with figures v adults collecting discussion gets brought up here a lot and can sometimes get heated but I just watched a video on YouTube and thought it was worth mentioning and discussing since it lends itself to the retro discussion, legends and flashback lines and a lot of what is discussed here in different threads.
Scott Neitlich was brand manger at Mattel for masters of the universe for over 10 years during the Matty collector / motu classics time. He claims in his review and opinion piece of motu origins that to get a toy line on shelves in shops 80% of the purchases (including what appear to be collector driven lines - Star Wars black series, marvel legends he name checks) need to be kids / parents etc purchasing for kids and that would make the collector market is therefore 20% I assume?
He goes on to talk about why classics (for those not aware of the motu line consider these akin to legends line, ultimate flashbacks etc) were not even considered for stores for this reason.
There’s a lot of contention on the retro character selection but given that comment, if Mattel wanted retros in store you can understand why they went for some of the newer talent. If retros were an online only product similar to motu classics, with only flashbacks do we think they would have shifted enough units to still be around today? Could the line have been more successful online with only flashbacks online?
The legends line before via matty collector wasn’t (I assume) as successful as the motu classics line sold via the same method which continued for a time after via super 7 so does this point to wrestling figures maybe even having a smaller than 20% collector size?
Should there be more designation between collector lines and ‘play’ Lines? Someone like neca, super 7 etc clearly make collector pieces whereas Mattel (and hasbro) have less clearly defined lines - ultimates are arguably priced and marketed as collector lines but the retros didn’t seem to be and sat in some limbo between collector / play. The legend to some degree also sit there and then flashbacks being the same price as ‘regular’ figures really lend themselves to being a bit of a halfway house between collector and play too depending arguably on who the character is - the iron shiek basic as an example presumable sold primarily to adult collectors despite being a basic priced figure?
Just some thoughts and questions I thought was worth scribbling down here to discuss as it pertains to the Mattel WWE lines
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Post by CM Poor on Mar 15, 2021 15:59:52 GMT -5
I know the kids playing with figures v adults collecting discussion gets brought up here a lot and can sometimes get heated but I just watched a video on YouTube and thought it was worth mentioning and discussing since it lends itself to the retro discussion, legends and flashback lines and a lot of what is discussed here in different threads. Scott Neitlich was brand manger at Mattel for masters of the universe for over 10 years during the Matty collector / motu classics time. He claims in his review and opinion piece of motu origins that to get a toy line on shelves in shops 80% of the purchases need to be kids / parents etc purchasing for kids and that would make the collector market is therefore 20% I assume? He goes on to talk about why classics (for those not aware of the motu line consider these akin to legends line, ultimate flashbacks etc) were not even considered for stores for this reason. There’s a lot of contention on the retro character selection but given that comment, if Mattel wanted retros in store you can understand why they went for some of the newer talent. If retros were an online only product similar to motu classics, with only flashbacks do we think they would have shifted enough units to still be around today? Could the line have been more successful online with only flashbacks online? The legends line before via matty collector wasn’t (I assume) as successful as the motu classics line sold via the same method which continued for a time after via super 7 so does this point to wrestling figures maybe even having a smaller than 20% collector size? Should there be more designation between collector lines and ‘play’ Lines? Someone like neca, super 7 etc clearly make collector pieces whereas Mattel (and hasbro) have less clearly defined lines - ultimates are arguably priced and marketed as collector lines but the retros didn’t seem to be and sat in some limbo between collector / play. The legend to some degree also sit there and then flashbacks being the same price as ‘regular’ figures really lend themselves to being a bit of a halfway house between collector and play too depending arguably on who the character is - the iron shiek basic as an example presumable sold primarily to adult collectors despite being a basic priced figure? Just some thoughts and questions I thought was worth scribbling down here to discuss as it pertains to the Mattel WWE lines This here, I think, is a hang up that a lot of collectors have trouble getting past. Collecting action figures, as is, is a niche market. Wrestling figures are a niche within a niche. If you know, then it can easily appear larger than it is, because you know where to look and you know where like minded collectors are going to congregate en masse. You're going to run in to other collectors in-store because you're both exhibiting similar shopping habits because you both know how to best hunt these things down. All of these perspectives make it look like wrestling figures are a market run completely rampant, but outside that vacuum, we're just a teeny, tiny little fraction of a fraction of the foot traffic in a department in a store. |
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taserface
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Post by taserface on Mar 15, 2021 16:55:43 GMT -5
Then I’d love you know how NECA makes it into stores, and Hasbro gets GI Joe and GO Joe Retro, a lot of Marvel Legends are not aimed at kids, and a whole lot of Star Wars Black and TVC are not aimed at kids
Walgreens even sells Diamond Select figures. I’d say that’s a 99% collector driven line
I just think Mattel is so behind the times when it comes to realizing their audience Granted a whole lot of kids buy Basics and Elites also, but compared to Marvel / Hasbro, do not touch them in going deep into classic looks and what collectors actually want
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Post by LA Times on Mar 15, 2021 17:06:35 GMT -5
Then I’d love you know how NECA makes it into stores, and Hasbro gets GI Joe and GO Joe Retro, a lot of Marvel Legends are not aimed at kids, and a whole lot of Star Wars Black and TVC are not aimed at kids Walgreens even sells Diamond Select figures. I’d say that’s a 99% collector driven line I just think Mattel is so behind the times when it comes to realizing their audience Granted a whole lot of kids buy Basics and Elites also, but compared to Marvel / Hasbro, do not touch them in going deep into classic looks and what collectors actually want Childrens toylines are the centerpiece for what retailers carry and the adult sublines are what comes with the package. The Snake Eyes movie toyline is what helped get GI Joe Classified and Retro into stores, but it couldnt be released because the movie was delayed. Similarly, the Marvel 5-6" kids figures is what helps gets Marvel Legends into stores, although having MCU movies as advertising helps also. |
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Post by PJ on Mar 15, 2021 17:15:29 GMT -5
Do I think if they were Matty only would they be around today? Nope because just like with the Legends and DCUC Signature Series on Matty people here claimed they would buy them, but once they hit the site many of those same people who said they would buy them didn’t because of the higher price and shipping costs. Only a few of us did and Mattel looked at that as a failure. And when they went to the subscription for the DC figures where you had to pay upfront without knowing who would be offered is when they lost me. But if they were Matty online exclusives the same would happen with the Retros and Legends (if they put the Legends back on Matty)
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Post by stc13 on Mar 15, 2021 17:19:00 GMT -5
I'm not sure how recent the video you mention is or how recently that person was involved in the industry. But Jeremy Padawer said that industry data shows that 40% of action figure sales go to collectors over the age of 13, with some collector-specific products obviously being much higher.
The industry has changed a ton in the last 5-10 years. And I'd assume that 80/20 split may have been very true in the TRU days. But a lot has changed recenty.
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Post by PJ on Mar 15, 2021 17:33:30 GMT -5
Then I’d love you know how NECA makes it into stores, and Hasbro gets GI Joe and GO Joe Retro, a lot of Marvel Legends are not aimed at kids, and a whole lot of Star Wars Black and TVC are not aimed at kids Walgreens even sells Diamond Select figures. I’d say that’s a 99% collector driven line I just think Mattel is so behind the times when it comes to realizing their audience Granted a whole lot of kids buy Basics and Elites also, but compared to Marvel / Hasbro, do not touch them in going deep into classic looks and what collectors actually want Who says the ML, GI Joe, SW Black & Vintage collections lines aren’t aimed at kids? Just because collector’s buy them doesn’t mean they are still geared towards kids. When I was a kid I wanted almost every SW, GI Joe and Mego that was released. Why would you think it would be different with kids today? At the end of the day they are still children’s toys. |
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taserface
Superstar
Joined on: Oct 28, 2017 16:10:39 GMT -5
Posts: 890
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Post by taserface on Mar 15, 2021 17:39:23 GMT -5
Then I’d love you know how NECA makes it into stores, and Hasbro gets GI Joe and GO Joe Retro, a lot of Marvel Legends are not aimed at kids, and a whole lot of Star Wars Black and TVC are not aimed at kids Walgreens even sells Diamond Select figures. I’d say that’s a 99% collector driven line I just think Mattel is so behind the times when it comes to realizing their audience Granted a whole lot of kids buy Basics and Elites also, but compared to Marvel / Hasbro, do not touch them in going deep into classic looks and what collectors actually want Who says the mL, GI Joe, SW Black & Vintage collections lines aren’t aimed at kids? Just because collector’s buy them doesn’t mean they are still geared towards kids. When I was a kid I wanted almost every SW, GI Joe and Mego that was released. Why would you think it would be different with kids today? Why do I think it would be different? When you and I were kids the shows were on and they were everything to kids back then You seriously think Hasbro is rereleasing in the same packaging, toys that came out from 1977 thru the late 80’s, for current day kids? No, they are made for adult collectors If kids loved GI Joe 3 3/4” so much the line wouldn’t have died a long drawn out death over the last 10-15 years. You think kids are dying to get Dormammu in his classic form, or Red Skull in his classic look, or countless other ML figures that are from deep, deep in the vault. No. They are for adult collectors |
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Post by PJ on Mar 15, 2021 18:21:42 GMT -5
Who says the mL, GI Joe, SW Black & Vintage collections lines aren’t aimed at kids? Just because collector’s buy them doesn’t mean they are still geared towards kids. When I was a kid I wanted almost every SW, GI Joe and Mego that was released. Why would you think it would be different with kids today? Why do I think it would be different? When you and I were kids the shows were on and they were everything to kids back then You seriously think Hasbro is rereleasing in the same packaging, toys that came out from 1977 thru the late 80’s, for current day kids? No, they are made for adult collectors If kids loved GI Joe 3 3/4” so much the line wouldn’t have died a long drawn out death over the last 10-15 years. You think kids are dying to get Dormammu in his classic form, or Red Skull in his classic look, or countless other ML figures that are from deep, deep in the vault. No. They are for adult collectors First when I was a kid there weren’t any TV shows based on the toy lines. The closest was the Mego Star Trek and PotA dolls. And the LJN Rookies, Emergancy & SWAT dolls. Yes I do the movies are constantly on TBS and TNT. So yes I do think those figures are still aimed for kids the new audience who is watching the movies. And the same can be said for ML. Kids will play with superhero figures regardless of their costume design. So toy companies are going to pump out the character’s various costumes over time. Because many times they are featured as alternative costumes in video games and or are still shown in comics. So of course toy companies are going to cash in on them. Hell the newest wave of ML with Frogman in it I would never buy Frogman but I did see a child at Target ask his mother if he could get him along with the Spider-Man. And when the 80 Anniversary Captain America, Thor and Iron-Man were released I saw kids wanting them as well. And GI Joe is just a cool action figure line so why wouldn’t they reintroduce it to a newer audience? So yes I do believe even though a grown man like myself collects them they are still aimed towards children first and foremost. |
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Post by Midnight: Dark Knight on Mar 15, 2021 18:58:41 GMT -5
Who says the mL, GI Joe, SW Black & Vintage collections lines aren’t aimed at kids? Just because collector’s buy them doesn’t mean they are still geared towards kids. When I was a kid I wanted almost every SW, GI Joe and Mego that was released. Why would you think it would be different with kids today? Why do I think it would be different? When you and I were kids the shows were on and they were everything to kids back then You seriously think Hasbro is rereleasing in the same packaging, toys that came out from 1977 thru the late 80’s, for current day kids? No, they are made for adult collectors If kids loved GI Joe 3 3/4” so much the line wouldn’t have died a long drawn out death over the last 10-15 years. You think kids are dying to get Dormammu in his classic form, or Red Skull in his classic look, or countless other ML figures that are from deep, deep in the vault. No. They are for adult collectors As a huge marvel collector the only reason we get those deep vault characters is because an iron man, spidey or cap drive the line, just as cena roman rey etc drive the lines for wwe. In order to get the obscure or legends is because kids and the bigger driving audience are buying the mainstream characters. |
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Post by BadGirlRyleigh on Mar 15, 2021 21:48:32 GMT -5
Do I think if they were Matty only would they be around today? Nope because just like with the Legends and DCUC Signature Series on Matty people here claimed they would buy them, but once they hit the site many of those same people who said they would buy them didn’t because of the higher price and shipping costs. Only a few of us did and Mattel looked at that as a failure. And when they went to the subscription for the DC figures where you had to pay upfront without knowing who would be offered is when they lost me. But if they were Matty online exclusives the same would happen with the Retros and Legends (if they put the Legends back on Matty) Maybe if MattyCollector wasn’t an all around terrible service, I would’ve kept buying them after DDP. King Kong Bundy and Arn/Tully weren’t important to pre-teen me in 2012 |
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Post by newgenandy on Mar 16, 2021 2:06:08 GMT -5
Do I think if they were Matty only would they be around today? Nope because just like with the Legends and DCUC Signature Series on Matty people here claimed they would buy them, but once they hit the site many of those same people who said they would buy them didn’t because of the higher price and shipping costs. Only a few of us did and Mattel looked at that as a failure. And when they went to the subscription for the DC figures where you had to pay upfront without knowing who would be offered is when they lost me. But if they were Matty online exclusives the same would happen with the Retros and Legends (if they put the Legends back on Matty) Maybe if MattyCollector wasn’t an all around terrible service, I would’ve kept buying them after DDP. King Kong Bundy and Arn/Tully weren’t important to pre-teen me in 2012 I wasn’t actively purchasing during the matty collector time. what was bad about the service? |
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Post by SteveHulk on Mar 16, 2021 4:42:20 GMT -5
Do I think if they were Matty only would they be around today? Nope because just like with the Legends and DCUC Signature Series on Matty people here claimed they would buy them, but once they hit the site many of those same people who said they would buy them didn’t because of the higher price and shipping costs. Only a few of us did and Mattel looked at that as a failure. And when they went to the subscription for the DC figures where you had to pay upfront without knowing who would be offered is when they lost me. But if they were Matty online exclusives the same would happen with the Retros and Legends (if they put the Legends back on Matty) I would’ve kept buying them after DDP. King Kong Bundy and Arn/Tully weren’t important to pre-teen me in 2012 I've seen a few people say this, but I always found them really easy to use... I purchased the The Rockers 2-pack and all 5 individual Legends from them with no problems at all. ("...I'll get me coat") |
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Post by PJ on Mar 16, 2021 5:37:50 GMT -5
Maybe if MattyCollector wasn’t an all around terrible service, I would’ve kept buying them after DDP. King Kong Bundy and Arn/Tully weren’t important to pre-teen me in 2012 I wasn’t actively purchasing during the matty collector time. what was bad about the service? The day the figures would go live on the site the site would crash 9 times out of 10. So you knew it was going to be aggravating. lol But I felt that was the only real issue with Matty. Others complained about the higher cost of the figures. Because they were a lower production number the figures were $5 or $10 more than what mass retail figures were. Then seeing the figures were released ever month or two you had to spend $10 more per figure for shipping and it took like two weeks for Digital River (?) to ship the orders as well as two more week for the package to arrive. |
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Post by newgenandy on Mar 16, 2021 6:44:25 GMT -5
I wasn’t actively purchasing during the matty collector time. what was bad about the service? The day the figures would go live on the site the site would crash 9 times out of 10. So you knew it was going to be aggravating. lol But I felt that was the only real issue with Matty. Others complained about the higher cost of the figures. Because they were a lower production number the figures were $5 or $10 more than what mass retail figures were. Then seeing the figures were released ever month or two you had to spend $10 more per figure for shipping and it took like two weeks for Digital River (?) to ship the orders as well as two more week for the package to arrive. I always thought the slip cases looked really nice and got the impression they were packaged really well. That + the fact those figs were unlikely to come out in stores $5 to $10 doesn’t sound too bad but then with that frequency I can see that starting to add up. |
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Medieval
Main Eventer
@mattelwwe_medieval
Joined on: Jan 22, 2015 12:46:43 GMT -5
Posts: 4,638
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Post by Medieval on Mar 16, 2021 6:51:51 GMT -5
I didn't mind the prices from Matty it was the shipping time that annoyed me. It took forever for each one to arrive.
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Post by LA Times on Mar 21, 2021 8:19:10 GMT -5
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Post by kennyw86v2 on Mar 21, 2021 8:34:20 GMT -5
I'm not sure how recent the video you mention is or how recently that person was involved in the industry. But Jeremy Padawer said that industry data shows that 40% of action figure sales go to collectors over the age of 13, with some collector-specific products obviously being much higher. The industry has changed a ton in the last 5-10 years. And I'd assume that 80/20 split may have been very true in the TRU days. But a lot has changed recenty. 40% of all figures would certainly include 100% of all storm, figuarts, hot toys, etc. Which arent in most stores. I'd say the 80/20 split sounds correct |
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Post by BadGirlRyleigh on Mar 21, 2021 8:35:10 GMT -5
Maybe if MattyCollector wasn’t an all around terrible service, I would’ve kept buying them after DDP. King Kong Bundy and Arn/Tully weren’t important to pre-teen me in 2012 I wasn’t actively purchasing during the matty collector time. what was bad about the service? The website didn’t put the preorders up when they were supposed to. They had specific times it was supposed to go up and it was never on time. There wasn’t anything wrong with the prices, but the shipping was absolutely terrible, the worst buying experience I’ve ever had, and I waited six months for a Brandi Rhodes with a beat up box recently. They charged $10 for shipping that was basically like shipping was this past winter, except without a deadly virus or postal service bottleneck to blame it on. Andre was put up in January, and I’m pretty sure it was spring by the time I got it. I wish it could’ve worked but between the lukewarm figure choices outside Andre, DDP, & Liz and the terrible customer service it wasn’t going to work. It’s not like WWE made any effort to promote it either, all they ever did was put adverts in the dying WWE Magazine |
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Post by stc13 on Mar 21, 2021 9:07:50 GMT -5
I'm not sure how recent the video you mention is or how recently that person was involved in the industry. But Jeremy Padawer said that industry data shows that 40% of action figure sales go to collectors over the age of 13, with some collector-specific products obviously being much higher. The industry has changed a ton in the last 5-10 years. And I'd assume that 80/20 split may have been very true in the TRU days. But a lot has changed recenty. 40% of all figures would certainly include 100% of all storm, figuarts, hot toys, etc. Which arent in most stores. I'd say the 80/20 split sounds correct Those products aren't going to skew industry data that significantly. Hasbro probably sells as many units in a month as all of those lines do combined in a year. Kids are still the bread and butter of the industry, but I'd be shocked if there weren't opposing growth curves where kids are shrinking and adult collectors are growing. |
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I dont know good luck 
