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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Feb 11, 2023 13:57:32 GMT -5
I remember at King of the Ring 94, it was well documented that Hulk Hogan had signed with WCW. And they aired this promo on the KOTR PPV about the old generation and showed Hogan, Putski, Andre and Iron Sheik as saying, "these guys are old, watch the new stuff now" and then showed Razor, Diesel, HBK, Bret, and whoever else was around at the time.
So that's all in good, the WWF is trying to move forward, yet.... the main event of KOTR 94 is Roddy Piper (who was in the main event at the first Wrestlemania against Hogan) and Jerry Lawler.
Okay... now as a 13 year old teenager who was in love with wrestling still, I didn't even put two and two together for that one. Plus, Bret Hart is the reigning WWF Champion who was around since Wrestlemania 1 too.
So then we get Bob Backlund ending the title reign and he's even older than the Hogan era!
We get the return of Dick Murdoch at the Royal Rumble, and then Jake Roberts makes his return to the WWF. And of course the ultimate return of the Ultimate Warrior!
So my question or at least topic here is pretty much... why did Vince McMahon bring back these old relic stars to the WWF in an era where he was trying to push a "New Generation" of talent for the fans to enjoy??
Should that era had been called something entirely different than "New Generation"??
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Post by The Brain on Feb 11, 2023 14:15:50 GMT -5
And the funny thing is, they had those videos with the ''old'' showing black and white footage along with Hogan, Sheik etc then ''new'' showing Bret, Razor etc yet like you said they have Piper/Lawler main event a PPV.
At the end of the day this is Vince we're talking about.Didnt he have a PPV in these times called ''Great Balls of Fire''? Shows right there his mindset on things
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ClassicFan2
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Post by ClassicFan2 on Feb 11, 2023 14:17:23 GMT -5
those old guys still had names and could bring in fans. not EVERYBODY who watched was a new generation fan. and vince knew this. when he saw hulk/savage and such making wcw get good ratings he realized the old guys still have it some.
i LOVED the mix of both NG and old guys at the time.
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Post by MKSavage on Feb 11, 2023 14:31:50 GMT -5
I believe the reason that Piper/Lawler main evented the KOTR94 PPV was because Bret was losing his match against Diesel, and they needed the Anvil stuff to happen before the finals of the KOTR tournament. Plus, at that time, the WWF always sent the fans home happy, good guys always closed a big show with a win (with rare exceptions like Survivor Series 87, Andre won the final match, but Hogan still posed - to The Brain's delight...). Also, the older guys still had name value, so they were usually brought back to be attractions but not champions. |
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Post by CM Tusk on Feb 11, 2023 14:38:14 GMT -5
King of the Ring 94 is such a good event up until the main event.
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Post by The Brain on Feb 11, 2023 14:38:48 GMT -5
I believe the reason that Piper/Lawler main evented the KOTR94 PPV was because Bret was losing his match against Diesel, and they needed the Anvil stuff to happen before the finals of the KOTR tournament. Plus, at that time, the WWF always sent the fans home happy, good guys always closed a big show with a win (with rare exceptions like Survivor Series 87, Andre won the final match, but Hogan still posed - to The Brain 's delight...).
Also, the older guys still had name value, so they were usually brought back to be attractions but not champions.  Personally I didnt mind seeing guys like Piper,Backlund,Jake etc but it was odd to promote ''New Generation'' then see Backlund as your World Champ Reminds me of a big downfall in WCW. They relied too much on the older talent and in the end it bit em in the ass.I love Naitch to death but it was the wrong idea in 99 to have him and Hogan Feud for the belt |
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Post by MKSavage on Feb 11, 2023 14:51:47 GMT -5
I believe the reason that Piper/Lawler main evented the KOTR94 PPV was because Bret was losing his match against Diesel, and they needed the Anvil stuff to happen before the finals of the KOTR tournament. Plus, at that time, the WWF always sent the fans home happy, good guys always closed a big show with a win (with rare exceptions like Survivor Series 87, Andre won the final match, but Hogan still posed - to The Brain 's delight...).
Also, the older guys still had name value, so they were usually brought back to be attractions but not champions. Personally I didnt mind seeing guys like Piper,Backlund,Jake etc but it was odd to promote ''New Generation'' then see Backlund as your World Champ Reminds me of a big downfall in WCW. They relied too much on the older talent and in the end it bit em in the ass.I love Naitch to death but it was the wrong idea in 99 to have him and Hogan Feud for the beltAgreed. One thing I have to give Vince is his willingness to promote new stars. No matter how great a performer is, everyone becomes stale at some point. WCW pushing the older stars in the late 90s and not really developing any new stars hurt them going forward. Meanwhile, the WWF was creating new stars and feuds. |
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ClassicFan2
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Post by ClassicFan2 on Feb 11, 2023 15:02:03 GMT -5
Personally I didnt mind seeing guys like Piper,Backlund,Jake etc but it was odd to promote ''New Generation'' then see Backlund as your World Champ Reminds me of a big downfall in WCW. They relied too much on the older talent and in the end it bit em in the ass.I love Naitch to death but it was the wrong idea in 99 to have him and Hogan Feud for the belt Agreed. One thing I have to give Vince is his willingness to promote new stars. No matter how great a performer is, everyone becomes stale at some point. WCW pushing the older stars in the late 90s and not really developing any new stars hurt them going forward. Meanwhile, the WWF was creating new stars and feuds. but everyone says how bad wcw sucked in 2000/2001 and they were trying to promote new stars. many of the old guard were gone by then. then add in wwf's lowest rating ever when New generation started until the attitude era really kicked in. wcw also got a big boost in ratings with hulk/savage/flair/sting/luger being headliners in 1995/96 the mix of both old/new was perfect imo |
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Post by MKSavage on Feb 11, 2023 15:37:17 GMT -5
Agreed. One thing I have to give Vince is his willingness to promote new stars. No matter how great a performer is, everyone becomes stale at some point. WCW pushing the older stars in the late 90s and not really developing any new stars hurt them going forward. Meanwhile, the WWF was creating new stars and feuds. but everyone says how bad wcw sucked in 2000/2001 and they were trying to promote new stars. many of the old guard were gone by then. then add in wwf's lowest rating ever when New generation started until the attitude era really kicked in. wcw also got a big boost in ratings with hulk/savage/flair/sting/luger being headliners in 1995/96 the mix of both old/new was perfect imo Change does take time, but WCW not creating any new stars (or very few) during the height of the Monday Night Wars days hurt them in 1999/2000/2001. In 1999, WCW was still giving feuds that people had seen for a decade or more (Hogan/Piper, Hogan/Savage, Hogan/Flair, Flair/Sting, Flair/Piper, Flair/Luger, Luger/Sting, etc.) and WWF was killing them in the ratings with the new stars that came about during the New Generation era (Austin, Rock, HHH, Taker, Kane, Mankind, New Age Outlaws, APA, etc.) WCW did have one new star that was getting over with the audience, Goldberg (and I wasn't even a fan of his), but they pushed him to the back in place of Flair/Hogan/Sting/Luger/Piper/Nash etc. in 1999. Not to mention they ran off a number of the younger stars who could have been good for WCW in 2000/2001 but were never really given a chance at the top (Y2J, Beniot, Guerrero, Raven, etc.) Those guys ended up being great additions to the WWF roster in those years. By the time WCW did start to put the younger talent up with the older guys it didn't work because those guys had spent years on the undercard, they weren't believable as main event stars. I remember one feud that looked really weird, I remember they paired Kidman against Hogan, and it just didn't work. Kidman spent the previous 3 years in opening matches and cruiserweight feuds, now all of a sudden he's challenging Hogan, it didn't make any sense. They spent no time building him up as a main event talent to make that feud work. And yes, the mix of old and new makes a great roster, but after a while the fans will tire of the old, and if they spend no time building up the new, the fans won't accept them. Unfortunately for WCW, the merger between Time Warner and AOL ended the company. WCW was currently in the beginning stages of their own New Generation Era, and maybe over time they could have created new stars that would have brought on a new boom period, but AOL wanted nothing to do with wrestling, so they dropped them. |
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ClassicFan2
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Post by ClassicFan2 on Feb 11, 2023 15:49:53 GMT -5
but everyone says how bad wcw sucked in 2000/2001 and they were trying to promote new stars. many of the old guard were gone by then. then add in wwf's lowest rating ever when New generation started until the attitude era really kicked in. wcw also got a big boost in ratings with hulk/savage/flair/sting/luger being headliners in 1995/96 the mix of both old/new was perfect imo Change does take time, but WCW not creating any new stars (or very few) during the height of the Monday Night Wars days hurt them in 1999/2000/2001. In 1999, WCW was still giving feuds that people had seen for a decade or more (Hogan/Piper, Hogan/Savage, Hogan/Flair, Flair/Sting, Flair/Piper, Flair/Luger, Luger/Sting, etc.) and WWF was killing them in the ratings with the new stars that came about at the during the New Generation era (Austin, Rock, HHH, Taker, Kane, Mankind, New Age Outlaws, APA, etc.) WCW did have one new star that was getting over with the audience, Goldberg (and I wasn't even a fan of his), but they pushed him to the back in place of Flair/Hogan/Sting/Luger/Piper/Nash etc. in 1999. Not to mention they ran off a number of the younger stars who could have been good for WCW in 2000/2001 but were never really given a chance at the top (Y2J, Beniot, Guerrero, Raven, etc.) Those guys ended up being great additions to the WWF roster in those years. By the time WCW did start to put the younger talent up with the older guys, it didn't work because those guys had spent years on the undercard, they weren't believable as main event stars. I remember one feud that looked really weird, I remember they paired Kidman against Hogan and it just didn't work. Kidman spent the previous 3 years in opening matches and cruiserweight feuds, now all of a sudden he's challenging Hogan, it didn't make any sense. They spent no time building him up as a main event talent to make that feud work. And yes, the mix of old and new makes a great roster, but after a while the fans will tire of the old, and if they spend no time building up the new, the fans won't accept them. Unfortunately for WCW, the merger between Time Warner and AOL ended the company. WCW was currently in the beginning stages of their own New Generation Era, and maybe over time they could have created new stars that would have brought on a new boom period, but AOL wanted nothing to do with wrestling, so they dropped them. alot of good points but even building new stars doesnt keep it hot. wwf started to tank in 2003 and on. thats why they kept/keep bring back old names. main event guys in mid 2000's were still HHH, Miceals, Taker, Flair, Rock,etc. crap hogan vs micheals was main event of SSlam in 2006 the names still and always help! the biggest name WWF made basically in early 2000's was Brock. thats why i say a mix of both is best |
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nibs92
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Post by nibs92 on Feb 11, 2023 16:22:50 GMT -5
The biggest problem with Hogan and Macho in the WWF in comparison with “new generation” starswas more tv age than their actual age, imo. Both had been around the main event for years.While Backlund was from an era before Hulkamania, but would be relatively unknown to the mass casual audience that Hogan and Co ushered in. He was barely mentioned, if at all, during the Golden Era, so pretty much fit in as a new face in the wwf.
Due to the WWF policy of not acknowledging the outside wrestling world, Lawler, “youngster” Carlos Colon, Murdoch etc were new to the mass audience. Regardless of age, Lawler v Piper was a fresh main event match up at KOTR94. The New Generation was as much about focussing on a “new generation” of fan perception as the performers in the ring. The whole age discrimination thing against Hogan et al was pretty much discrediting the competition in the eyes of the fans.
Or at least that’s my theory on it all.
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jason1980s
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Post by jason1980s on Feb 11, 2023 23:05:19 GMT -5
Governor William Donald Schaeffer was at King of the Ring. Some may remember he spoke about liking Hulk Hogan which was bad considering Hogan had signed with WWF. I doubt Schaeffer was a big WWF fan. Maybe he was like most older people and just like "the old days." He was all over the place when there was a special event in Maryland. I wonder if WWF invited him (they sure didn't "school" him nor Art Art Donovan.) I wonder if a staffer told Schaeffer it would be a good idea to go and get his face on TV. He always seemed to be involved in some event in the area even if it wasn't something that would particularly gain him points or popularity.
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Post by Nivro™ on Feb 12, 2023 0:56:03 GMT -5
To be fair they were probably more focused on the new names/stars they were pushing & not so much the "age". They were simply moving away from the "norms" of the past 10 years. Sure Bret had been around for a long time but he's still what, 5-6 years younger then Hogan? That's a lifetime in the ring.
Also most of your old heads were used to put guys over and build stars. Think about Backlund. Yes he won the title but then immediately lost it to Diesel the next night. That made Diesel. Who else on the roster had the name power to be world champion & lose a squash match but also NOT hurt the business? You cant get Bret to do it. Yoko was having to be carried in tag matches.
While the main event of Piper-Lawler was odd, it was likely filler. Neither really did anything or took any "spots" from the younger guys. Piper was gone by SummerSlam I believe and Lawler was 90% a commentator & just filler for cards.
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Post by k5 on Feb 12, 2023 11:16:02 GMT -5
they were going to try whatever they could and see if it catches. by promoting both younger talent and still showing recognized talent, it made that possible
although the lawler thing was strange as he was never a recognized national name before his wwf run.
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