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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2023 9:46:28 GMT -5
Owen is evenly rated imo. I do feel like they could have pulled the trigger on him in 94 with a short run with the strap, possibly beating Bret at Summerslam that year. He had the charisma Bret didn't and was as good a wrestler as Bret was. I know a lot of his ribs could be seen as harsh nowadays but I've never heard of Owen taking dookies in ppls bags. So, for me, he's neither over or underrated.
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Post by Next Man’s Knowing Rock on May 29, 2023 18:12:24 GMT -5
Of course Owen Hart was vastly overrated after he died, that’s just the weird, maudlin nature of some people. Happened with Luke Harper and others too.
But Owen was still very good. He could wrestle a decent match with anyone, and had the old goofy wrestler ability to throw in ridiculous character work at times. Like his brother, he couldn’t really do promos well. Owen wasn’t really main event material, but he was a great hand to have on the card. I still enjoy watching clips of him and Bulldog being a dysfunctional team. Their entrance battles were hilarious to me at the time and now.
But his little mess around jokes on live events don’t really have any bearing on any of that. It’s a strange thing to get mad about thirty years later.
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TheEvilDoink1987
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Post by TheEvilDoink1987 on May 29, 2023 18:14:11 GMT -5
I think Owen is rated pretty well.
He will never be considered a master on the mic, but he definitely had his moments where he was so damn entertaining as the cowardly heel especially in 1996. If Owen was ever going to get the belt it would have happened in 1994 as the only other time he was on that pedestal was probably when he came back after the Montreal Screwjob, but that was never going to happen with the momentum Austin had entering 1998.
From a pure wrestling standpoint though, there are very few that would rank above Owen Hart. He was that good. An innovator who was ahead of his time with a unique blend of technical and high-flying ability.
If Owen had the same passion to be at the top of the pro wrestling business as Bret did he would have been unstoppable.
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Post by Evil Abed on May 29, 2023 21:24:04 GMT -5
He was a WAY better wrestler than Bret and he was championship material. We need to be real though, after the Screwjob he was never going to sniff the main event scene and he also had the bad blood with Austin. He was over as hell during his face run but before long he was threw into The Nation. I remember in 98 everything was screaming an Owen/HBK feud at the start of the year. And then they switched Taker in and basically made Owen job to Helmsley a bunch. As you said he really could have been something huge following the Screwjob but I wouldnt even call it a fumble as much as I think the writing was on the wall for a Hart family member by that point.
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kinnikuman
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Post by kinnikuman on May 29, 2023 21:46:05 GMT -5
One of the best to ever lace up the boots.
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Ohtimate Wahriah
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Post by Ohtimate Wahriah on May 30, 2023 7:42:09 GMT -5
I mean, that’s a tough one to say. Had he not died then he would have never been held with such a spotlight on him, so we’d all be saying he was underrated. I personally don’t see people making claims that he was the greatest wrestler of all time, I mostly just see a bunch of people that are still semi traumatized that he died haha. (That was a big deal). But he was definitely a good wrestler. You just gotta take it fir what it is, he passed away far too soon in horrific circumstances. People are gonna always wonder “What if” and sensationalize
I like Owen, I always enjoyed his matches
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Post by PJ on May 30, 2023 8:12:17 GMT -5
I have heard/read about the house show stuff for years now. I know Bret says Owen was the best wrestler of the Harts, but personally I never saw it. I feel he was at his peak in his feud with Bret. That was his best all round work. Other than that while he was a talented wrestler to me his ceiling was tag team specialist or upper mid card worker. I just didn’t see the “it” factor in him to put him on that next level to stay. And this should probably be on the classic board.
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ℍ𝕒𝕣𝕕 𝕋𝕠 𝕂𝕚𝕝𝕝
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Post by ℍ𝕒𝕣𝕕 𝕋𝕠 𝕂𝕚𝕝𝕝 on May 30, 2023 10:22:01 GMT -5
Read the business of WWF in the time Owen was doing this.
People attending house shows during the AE were NOT there to see Owen Hart.
The boys need to do something to keep their sanity when they spend 300 days on the road a year.
Its a fourth-from-the-top popcorn tag bout that would get the same crowd engagement and reactions regardless if they put forward effort, or not.
No one bought a ticket to see Mankind and Vader Vs Owen and Bulldog in Muncie, Indiana in March 1997.
Separate note: each one of your threads has more nonsense than the one before it.
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Post by CM Poor on May 30, 2023 14:06:50 GMT -5
I like how this isn't really a question, but more "here's my decided upon opinion posed as a question so I can argue the merits of your opinion", but to try and circumvent that...
...yes, I can remember many things that Owen did that I found entertaining and enjoyable, and no, not nearly as much as your personal hero, since we're doing that.
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Post by PJ on May 30, 2023 15:59:35 GMT -5
Read the business of WWF in the time Owen was doing this. People attending house shows during the AE were NOT there to see Owen Hart. The boys need to do something to keep their sanity when they spend 300 days on the road a year. Its a fourth-from-the-top popcorn tag bout that would get the same crowd engagement and reactions regardless if they put forward effort, or not. No one bought a ticket to see Mankind and Vader Vs Owen and Bulldog in Muncie, Indiana in March 1997.Separate note: each one of your threads has more nonsense than the one before it. That was the exact reason my wife bought those tickets to that show for my birthday in ‘97. I remember it like it was yesterday! We haven’t gone to another show since because of what Owen did during that match. The pain is still to real for me.
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Ohtimate Wahriah
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Post by Ohtimate Wahriah on May 30, 2023 17:49:43 GMT -5
The timing of the Montreal Screwjob couldn’t have been worse though. Owen had everything to gain from that and I can’t even blame WWE for hotshotting the angle with Michaels because it was really the only place to do it, but man he could have been a big star coming out of that.
It was just the wrong time. Stone Cold was at his apex.
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on May 30, 2023 19:15:39 GMT -5
Read the business of WWF in the time Owen was doing this. People attending house shows during the AE were NOT there to see Owen Hart. The boys need to do something to keep their sanity when they spend 300 days on the road a year. Its a fourth-from-the-top popcorn tag bout that would get the same crowd engagement and reactions regardless if they put forward effort, or not. No one bought a ticket to see Mankind and Vader Vs Owen and Bulldog in Muncie, Indiana in March 1997.
Separate note: each one of your threads has more nonsense than the one before it. I would. There are lots of mid card wresters I've wanted to see live over the years.
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Post by CM Tusk on May 30, 2023 20:05:36 GMT -5
Yeah it essentially became “I’m going to sh** talk a guy who is dead because he liked to have fun at house shows, so I can eventually stick with my gimmick of “Hulk Hogan is the greatest!””
Wait till he see the house show clip of Undertaker breaking character and dumping water on his head before running up and down the apron. Or Edge, Orton, and Umaga wearing each others gear. Surprised he hasn’t asked for the public stoning of Shawn Michaels for Summerslam 2005 yet.
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Post by hbkjason on May 31, 2023 9:24:56 GMT -5
I'm an Owen Hart fan and was entertained by most of what he did. However, he was no where near the level of Bret in pretty much every area.
A solid mid to upper mid card performer is what he was and that is not meant as a form of disrespect. There is nothing wrong at all with being at the level.
I feel that he was also the victim of bad timing. After the screwjob, he needed to get his revenge on Shawn Michaels, but as HBK needed to get Austin to the next level, no way they could have him job to Owen in the run into WrestleMania. They also needed Triple H to be the strong new leader of DX so he couldn't even get revenge on Triple H!
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Post by k5 on May 31, 2023 10:29:59 GMT -5
i feel like Owen, and Brody for that matter, are more remembered for their endearing personalities that affected those in and out of the business
I feel like that’s also obvious to anyone who’s not a psychopath
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Post by ASR (therockisback) on May 31, 2023 10:32:56 GMT -5
i feel like Owen, and Brody for that matter, are more remembered for their endearing personalities that affected those in and out of the business I feel like that’s also obvious to anyone who’s not a psychopath Lmao... post of the thread 😂😂I agree 100%
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Post by The Best on Jun 2, 2023 16:33:08 GMT -5
Owen was a great wrestler so I’ll say no. Bulldog on the other hand….holy crap one of the most overrated.
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Jun 2, 2023 19:06:04 GMT -5
Owen was a great wrestler so I’ll say no. Bulldog on the other hand….holy crap one of the most overrated. Always found Bulldog entertaining. People hate on the 95 Rumble but it gave us 1 hour of The British Bulldog so no complaints from me.
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Post by The Best on Jun 3, 2023 1:52:28 GMT -5
Owen was a great wrestler so I’ll say no. Bulldog on the other hand….holy crap one of the most overrated. Always found Bulldog entertaining. People hate on the 95 Rumble but it gave us 1 hour of The British Bulldog so no complaints from me. I actually like the bulldog. But watching his matches I’m confused why some consider him one of the greats in the ring. If he’s not in there with Bret, Owen or Shawn….not so good.
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Dr. Frasier Crane
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Post by Dr. Frasier Crane on Jun 3, 2023 5:51:04 GMT -5
I have always been an Owen Hart fan. I have always enjoyed watching his matches. Now as far as if he's overrated or not, that's a complex question. It's all subjective. Personally I think as an in-ring performer he was great, but even as someone who has been a Owen Hart fan the majority of my life I can't say that I would put him in my top 10 list of the greatest wrestlers I have ever seen, I honestly don't even know if I would put him in my top 15. I do think in a lot of ways the circumstances of his tragic death has in some ways caused a lot of wrestling fans to get a little carried away sometimes.
One thing I have noticed in a lot of online interactions especially on Twitter is that some of the people who claim to be Owen Hart fans and who really sensationalize a lot of aspects of his career aren't really Owen Hart fans and can't cite many of his matches outside of Owen vs Bret. They more or less use him as nothing more than a talking point to constantly bash all things WWF/E. I point that to say if you can separate in your thoughts the tragedy that took his life, the sensationalized aftermath, & the legal dramas etc from his actual body of work, and focus on his career you'd find that overall he's probably evenly rated in the in-ring aspects.
Now with the "Owen would sabotage house show matches on purpose just to entertain the boys backstage. He would put in a crappy performance at house shows just for a "joke" in spite of the audience that paid money to watch the match." Thinking back to that era I can honestly say I don't have an issue with it as long as he wasn't going and causing bodily harm to those he was working the matches with. It wasn't TV or PPV it was house shows, let's face it very few paying fans at that time were probably dishing out money mainly to see Owen unless he was working the main event with one of the headliners. He was doing it as joke to entertain his friends and co-workers because by all accounts he was great human being who cared about making the people he cared about laugh and enjoy life. And frankly as far I am personally concerned I think a lot of fans today dish out money specifically to watch crappy wrestling unfortunately.
As far as "he never drew one dime as a performer" when I am personally contemplating on how great I think a wrestler is or was, I don't even use the amount of money they did or did not draw as a factor. There are wrestlers who i fully believe were great wrestler who happened to draw a lot guys like Ric Flair, Randy Savage, the Von Erichs, Jerry Lawler, Harley Race, Ricky Steamboat, Ernie Ladd, Shawn Michaels, Jack Brisco, Bruiser Brody etc. There are also a ton of wrestlers who were phenomenal at their jobs who especially by today's standards would not be considered draws guys like George Becker, Johnny Weaver, Paul Jones, Chris Adams, Iceman King Parsons, Jay Youngblood, etc. How much money or attention one attracts i don't consider it to have any bearings on the actual talent it takes for somebody to be a genuinely great wrestler and in-ring performer. Especially when a lot of other major draws in wrestling are not actually good wrestlers but draw because of their looks and microphone skills. Sometimes there is a total package who has the looks, and can talk, and actually wrestle and wrestle good but aa lot of time that's not the case.
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